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Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
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Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
Post 5:
Time to reread Just ISO:
Yup....mutual bussing. Scum!bozo.
doesn't mention bozo anywhere there. Scum!bozo.
Also, town!damo. Wouldn't have missed his partner posting.
Several interactions with Balki give scum-scum vibes.
Oh man...I never even saw this next post....
Bona and Bunny are town. Vecna is probably town. I think Bozo is probably the "one scum" in the pool there. I think Lord/Spart are the likely scum he's protecting in the town pool. But less sure about that.
Yup...this is total BS. And I have no idea how Bozo and I got connected there. Scum!bozo.
Also at most 1 scum in his "team", he wouldn't want to link too many. Which again puts his "townreads" of Sparta and Lord as scum likely.
How does the VCA look for a Just-bozo-Lord-Sparta look?
Well....wow!!! Sparta on damo, Just on Bona, Bozo on Sparta, and Lord NVRing. That's spread out...protecting Just...slight bus from bozo.
Balki can sub for Sparta easily enough too.
Let's get 'em boys.
Next post is a deep dive of Lord and Sparta.
Time to reread Just ISO:
Weird nudge of a new player. I don't think he'd do this and then NOT push with scum!SpartaJustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:27 pmHow’d ya figure out how to vote? Did u watch our last game?Spartaculous wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:02 pmIt's been an hour, so I guess we can start?
##VOTE damo666
This doesn't sound like I expect Just to sound. Does he say "shush"? Makes me wonder about bozo's alignment.JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:51 pmOh shush that game was like ages ago
JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 9:27 pmNo mechs for bozo right now does he always get into the game super fast
um so i dont respond to each individually i picked 1 cuz idk
Also bozo trying to hard to be town so scum
Yup....mutual bussing. Scum!bozo.
JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:00 pmSome random thoughts
Sweet is NAI, I think he’s doing this gambit out of pure spite for always being D1ed
Foodcoats gives off a similar vibe from last game, towny as such but I could be wrong
Vecna seems to ‘catch up’ even tho it’s like 5 pages into the game. Strange
Jamie is my top tr atm
JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:02 pmOh damo is here, i didnt even notice
Was bouta clown on food if damo was a non-poster
doesn't mention bozo anywhere there. Scum!bozo.
Also, town!damo. Wouldn't have missed his partner posting.
Town!Jamie...Just is trying to get towncred from him.JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 6:10 pmI noticedJamiet99uk wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 4:55 pmBehold, Sweet posted again. Am I the first person to notice this?
Look, Foodcoats.
JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:19 pmIm here Balki but i made a vow to not top post any phaseBalki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:19 pmAre people worried that they are posting too much? Nobody is posting too much.
Several interactions with Balki give scum-scum vibes.
Oh man...I never even saw this next post....
what BS.JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 3:15 pmReads List: Ordered
TOWN: Would not flip today
—
Spart
Lord
Jamie
Sweet
—
—
LEAN TOWN: Would only flip if alternative is higher up
—
Ghug
King
Food
—
—
NULL: Would (also) only flip if alternative is higher up
—
DrFid
Worcej
Balki
Rdr
Damo
—
—
SCUM: Would flip today
—
Vecna
Bunny
Bozo
Bona
Bona and Bunny are town. Vecna is probably town. I think Bozo is probably the "one scum" in the pool there. I think Lord/Spart are the likely scum he's protecting in the town pool. But less sure about that.
JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 5:09 pmI can already see the division forming between the player list.
Groups of people that scumread the other group, and im a bit worried atm about it
For now i see food-balki-jamie-myself-Vecna (even tho i dont trust Vecna) on one end and Bunny-Bona-Bozo-(sweet?)-(brain?) on another
I may be overthinking this but ye
Take of that what you will
Yup...this is total BS. And I have no idea how Bozo and I got connected there. Scum!bozo.
Also at most 1 scum in his "team", he wouldn't want to link too many. Which again puts his "townreads" of Sparta and Lord as scum likely.
How does the VCA look for a Just-bozo-Lord-Sparta look?
Well....wow!!! Sparta on damo, Just on Bona, Bozo on Sparta, and Lord NVRing. That's spread out...protecting Just...slight bus from bozo.
Balki can sub for Sparta easily enough too.
Let's get 'em boys.
Next post is a deep dive of Lord and Sparta.
The moral of the boy who cried wolf? Never tell the same lie twice--Elim Garak
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
Post 6:
GAH!!! SOOOOO BORED!!!
My kids are asleep.
My wife is asleep.
I don't want to do my homework.
SOOOOOOOOOOO BORRRRREEEEED.
GAH!!! SOOOOO BORED!!!
My kids are asleep.
My wife is asleep.
I don't want to do my homework.
SOOOOOOOOOOO BORRRRREEEEED.
The moral of the boy who cried wolf? Never tell the same lie twice--Elim Garak
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
Post 7:
And we're back! Let's see Lord:
Sparta!
and nothing....
Well....you get the idea....
OK....so LoW maybe is town but Sparta is scum. Bozo was bussing to try and save Just.
I think this also confirms damo town (following the conclusions from the Just dive). I don't see Sparta playing like this and voting a teammate first vote and never changing.
So...Just-Sparta-bozo-?? Balki?
Town: Bona, damo, Jamie, Vecna
Need to read bozo and Balki next....but they posted more....
And we're back! Let's see Lord:
huh....someone noted he could have stayed silent about this and coasted a little? Does Just being scum change that?Lord of Words wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 10:26 amTo clarify, I have played on MU, Discord, and other forums, so if you take the kid gloves off, that's fine.JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:29 pmOh as per official newb shield Spartaculous will not receive my vote until day 3 or later. Lord of Words maybe bc hes played elsewhere
This is also towny...his only post with a read being this and a previous one I didn't post saying that Bofa is too loud to scum. If Bofa town, then LoW probably town.Lord of Words wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 4:27 pmI'm new here and it's D1, so what I said isn't necessarily ironclad, but it would be a bold strategy for scum.kingofthepirates wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 11:17 amThat’s interesting. I’ve never played with bona before, but yeah, he feels like he’s playing… aggressively? I dunno if that’s the right word, but on vibes general tone he’s established a strong front. I feel such fearlessness is town leaning, but I’m not sure if a) bona is always like this, and/or b) it’s a facade/trick of scum.Lord of Words wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 10:54 amTo start, I don't think Bona is scum; his behavior and comments seem too over the top on D1 for that.
Not fully caught up yet, I’ll drop some more thoughts later.
Sparta!
As Vecna pointed out later, and I just confirmed, it isn't posted anywhere in the Chaqa posts nor the linked google doc. Why would he lie about this?Spartaculous wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 9:04 pmMafia rules are linked to at the start of the thread; they are easy enough to figure out.JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:27 pmHow’d ya figure out how to vote? Did u watch our last game?Spartaculous wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:02 pmIt's been an hour, so I guess we can start?
##VOTE damo666
saying nothing....Spartaculous wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 1:25 amThis makes me sad. We need more math.worcej wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:01 pmAnd here I was hoping we'd have another math free gamedamo666 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 2:17 pm
56% but who's arguing?
He's said he is not going to post again day 1. Other low posters have not said that.
No. I don't think anyone is statistically more likely to be scum. I fact I think statistically everyone other than me has about a 76% chance of being town.
More nothing....Spartaculous wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 1:29 amUm, Will: this is why you should play more Twenty Questions with us.
and nothing....
More nothing joking around with teammate....Spartaculous wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 1:57 amSounds much better!
And....NOTHING!
More nothing (But Sparta...we should totally talk after the game. Got LOTS of awesomeness here. It's Vacationland!)Spartaculous wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 7:20 pmMy wife and I are talking about vacationing in Maine this summer. We've wanted to go there for a long time. Got any suggestions for fun things to do?BunnyGo wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 4:46 pmPost 22:
Catching up again from where I went to sleep.
I live right by the ocean so we stay fairly temperate here. But am sad to say Maine does now get over 90 days in the summer when it never has before. Just got a couple heat pumps (mostly for heat....but the AC might be useful a couple weeks this summer).
Don't pew pew a bunny. We're adorable.
Well....you get the idea....
Spartaculous wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 7:54 pmWhat kind of tie do you want? Silk? Something a bit more matte?
What kind of color?
OK....so LoW maybe is town but Sparta is scum. Bozo was bussing to try and save Just.
I think this also confirms damo town (following the conclusions from the Just dive). I don't see Sparta playing like this and voting a teammate first vote and never changing.
So...Just-Sparta-bozo-?? Balki?
Town: Bona, damo, Jamie, Vecna
Need to read bozo and Balki next....but they posted more....
The moral of the boy who cried wolf? Never tell the same lie twice--Elim Garak
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
Post 8:
Time to read bozo:
That said...if being fooled by Just was so on his mind, why fight so hard against his wagon?
Then prods King, Sparta, and food with questions. Followed by Bona, and DrFid.
Time to read bozo:
good joke...NAI
weirder 2nd post....but maybe NAI, he did have it on his mind.bozotheclown wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 8:54 pmAre you mafia with Just again?
I looked at your M86 D1 interaction with Just after he started bussing you a number of times, and always concluded it was unlikely to be S/S, so nice job protecting Just in that game.
That said...if being fooled by Just was so on his mind, why fight so hard against his wagon?
Then prods King, Sparta, and food with questions. Followed by Bona, and DrFid.
"Hey Jamie...you want to go for a miskill?"bozotheclown wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 9:33 pmDo you think sweetandcool is not gong to post again D1? If he doesn't, are you OK voting him out for not posting?Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 29, 2024 9:24 pm##Vote Sweetandcool.
This is directly anti-town behaviour.
Weird focus chain about something that doesn't matter but he's taking it to the nth degree.bozotheclown wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 11:00 pmI didn't suggest that you might be mafia with Just.sweetandcool wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 10:54 pmHonestly the answer is that I had it in my head that there were 16 players not 18. I then multiplied by 2 to vaguely disguise my intention to use Will as RNG. I chose Will because he was online and active in thread.bozotheclown wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 10:43 pm
Assuming sweetandcool did not want to vote for himself, 1-34 would make sense if that were the case, but not 1-32.
Why do assume sweetandcool did not ignore the number selection and vote for who he wanted to vote for? I was not in M87, but based on the D1 and D2 voting, it seems sweetandcool might be motivated to vote for Balki. Or, sweetandcool and Balki could be mafia teammates and the apparently random vote could be a distancing ploy.
Given that there was no prechat, it's hard to believe scum sweetandcool somehow coordinated with scum Will to fabricate a vote on Balki.
Conclusion:
1. NAI sweetandcool did an RNG bit.
2. Scum sweetandcool wanted an interaction with Will either as buddying or pretend buddying.
3. Any alignment sweetandcool did not fabricate a vote on Balki because that is ludicrously implausible.
I can certify that at least two of those conclusions are correct.
yeah....I can see bozo/Balki coaching/protecting/busing/focusing on Sparta here.bozotheclown wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 6:23 pmNot exactly.Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 4:10 amWere you doing it just to pretend like you were trying to solve a puzzle even though you were not in fact solving a puzzle?bozotheclown wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 3:52 am
I asked him the sane question twice and he did not answer me, but he answered foodcoats.
weird phrasing here. "our" team.bozotheclown wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 6:24 pmWe want Balki for our team.JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 5:09 pmI can already see the division forming between the player list.
Groups of people that scumread the other group, and im a bit worried atm about it
For now i see food-balki-jamie-myself-Vecna (even tho i dont trust Vecna) on one end and Bunny-Bona-Bozo-(sweet?)-(brain?) on another
I may be overthinking this but ye
Take of that what you will
Completely ignoring Just after page 1-5. Despite the massive focus on him pre-game and first page or 5. That is the biggest thing. Doesn't even mention his wagon despite beating himself up so much for misreading Just last game.
The moral of the boy who cried wolf? Never tell the same lie twice--Elim Garak
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
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Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
Post 9:
The Balki papers:
So....his ISO isn't so bad, except for the strange pass he gave Just.
The Balki papers:
"Shut up, Just! Your gimmicks won't work again!"Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:13 pmI would not assume that this was a rational, fair, or meaningful process. It was just a bit of trolling to start the game. I don’t think we need to unpack it further than that.JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 3:08 pmIf theres 18 of us, what if i picked 22
And if it wraps around, it doesn’t get everyone twice
"I agree! Bozo *is* town! Look at me reinforcing that for you!"Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 4:27 pmYeah, but do you really have any idea?
I ask because I have no idea. I don't really even have any leaning on anyone right now. Do you really have reads? Am I just bad at this?
Engaging with Jamie. Deescalating. NAI.Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 6:59 pmIt seems pretty mild to me. I don't agree with your characterization of "seeking to attack anyone who is voting for Sweetandcool."Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 6:54 pmRe: (2) - really?Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 6:36 pm
(1) I think it is disrespectful and boring, and says nothing about alignment.
(2) I don't have that impression of Foodcoats's activity.
How do you interpret this statement:
...if not a criticism of people voting for Sweetandcool?
Isn't there something more interesting we can talk about? Who are your top three town reads and why?
NAI with Just too.Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:14 pmAhhhhhh...I don't know. I don't want to say because I don't like being so wrong.JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 7:07 pmWhos ur three top scum reads? Doesn’t have to be strong, just curious
Also @ Balki u too
It was hard for me to float my foodcoats might be performative read. That hasn't changed for me.
Two more?
Worcej. Do I have a reason? No.
Damn it, I need one more. I don't know. I don't really even scumread worcej or foodcoats yet.
Agree with Jamie. This was weird and showing up a bunch.Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 9:03 pmBecause ghug is my friend. And if you can't copy off your friend, who can you copy off of?Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 9:00 pmBalki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 5:59 pmghug, help me figure out who is who please.
Who is who?Balki why do you keep appealing to Ghug to investigate things for you?Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:57 pm@ghug, Vecna is treating me differently than he did last game. Please investigate and discuss.
The tone of these requests just seems a little odd.
This post IS interesting.Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 2:41 amInteresting.JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 1:06 amNow i dont have any proof for this but Bona seems to be doing his ‘too cool for mafia routine’. I dont know who said it or when (maybe it was during his MU champs game or maybe brain) but people have said this is a telltale sign of scum bona.
Now its just a theory but i think im onto something
Plus he hasn’t significantly contributed even tho his post count is relatively high, so theres another thing
Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 5:28 pmThis had me nodding along.Bonatogether wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 5:14 pmsurely you're not seriously suggesting that this is a problem meriting anything. people will do what they want to do, people will flip, people will adjust. this isn't real.JustAGuyNamedWill wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 5:11 pm
But , surely, you see where its heading though, right?
still about the game and not in the game
Hmmmm...."Interesting that Bona looks scummy from Just. I agree with Bona that Just is not making sense. But not going to scum read Just."Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 5:30 pmI was nodding along with that, but I don't have a scumread on Will. I just think that red rover lineup was kind of silly.
Not scum with damo.
Anyone but Just.Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 6:58 pmI am cool with foodcoats or Damo.
I'm suspicious of Vecna.
The Bona wagon seems to be a reaction to his style. There are differing views on whether this is "just how he always is" or it's some scumtell. I don't really feel like I can weigh in on that intelligently, so I'm just going to kind of ignore the wagon. I don't really want to vote there.
Anyone else want to sell me something?
So....his ISO isn't so bad, except for the strange pass he gave Just.
The moral of the boy who cried wolf? Never tell the same lie twice--Elim Garak
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
no...you read....you play to win...
The moral of the boy who cried wolf? Never tell the same lie twice--Elim Garak
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
I spent 10 of my precious 150 posts because it is important.
The moral of the boy who cried wolf? Never tell the same lie twice--Elim Garak
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
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Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
I read it already. We are not toddlers. Stop spamming. This is intolerable.
Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
I didn’t think food was a PR. Idk why damo scummed him and decided to hip fire the kill.
Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
What would you have done if given BEES?
Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
Told Sparta I was going to kill him.
The moral of the boy who cried wolf? Never tell the same lie twice--Elim Garak
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
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Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
Surprising answer. Evidence suggests that you would poll everybody over who they think you should kill.
Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
REALLY?sweetandcool wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 11:58 pmSurprising answer. Evidence suggests that you would poll everybody over who they think you should kill.
What do you remember the last time I was given a gun? The time before? Before?
The moral of the boy who cried wolf? Never tell the same lie twice--Elim Garak
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
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Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
Okay, my assessment of this sordid affair:
1. Town has no reason to claim since it only invites angry retribution. New players are more likely to do this. Is damo really so remorseful that they would claim?
Scum points for damo.
2. Scum could and probably should stay silent. However, they have the option to try to earn town cred by claiming. Like such a bad play that they can't be scum.
Conclusion: while I can see town boneheadedly stinging Food, I think the choice to claim more likely to come from scum.
Maybe further analysis of D1 will change my mind or make me consider someone else to be a better candidate for the DK but that's where I currently am at.
1. Town has no reason to claim since it only invites angry retribution. New players are more likely to do this. Is damo really so remorseful that they would claim?
Scum points for damo.
2. Scum could and probably should stay silent. However, they have the option to try to earn town cred by claiming. Like such a bad play that they can't be scum.
Conclusion: while I can see town boneheadedly stinging Food, I think the choice to claim more likely to come from scum.
Maybe further analysis of D1 will change my mind or make me consider someone else to be a better candidate for the DK but that's where I currently am at.
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Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
I recall last time you had two shots and hit scum and then town. And you were very comfortable roleplaying not the shooter while essentially polling for who to shoot.BunnyGo wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 12:06 amREALLY?sweetandcool wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 11:58 pmSurprising answer. Evidence suggests that you would poll everybody over who they think you should kill.
What do you remember the last time I was given a gun? The time before? Before?
Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
The first shot just shot. I was planning on it the whole time and trying to give him rope to lead us to other scum. Also didn't call the shot.sweetandcool wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 12:07 amI recall last time you had two shots and hit scum and then town. And you were very comfortable roleplaying not the shooter while essentially polling for who to shoot.BunnyGo wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 12:06 amREALLY?sweetandcool wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2024 11:58 pm
Surprising answer. Evidence suggests that you would poll everybody over who they think you should kill.
What do you remember the last time I was given a gun? The time before? Before?
The second I let myself get talked into it by ghug. It was really dumb; I didn't just shoot town, I shot non-CC'd PR...so your "surprising answer" would be "what? you'd really call your shot?! And you'd care if they claimed?!"
And yes...rollplayed as not the shooter. It was a claimable role which has its own value unlike this game.
The moral of the boy who cried wolf? Never tell the same lie twice--Elim Garak
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Re: Mafia 88: Murder at the Meadery - GAME THREAD
Shooting Bofa also ruined my perfect record with shot in forum mafia.
The moral of the boy who cried wolf? Never tell the same lie twice--Elim Garak
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
Take a minute of your day to be nice to someone, you dumb son of a bitch -- Iron Sheik
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