There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

[Jamiet99uk]

Reading up on the author it looks like he has a full on political agenda here.

"As a result, Harry was able to use their time at Herts not just to learn about illustration, but also queer theory, LGBT history, and the various political and social movements that intersect those two topics. All of this inspired Harry’s artistic practice. In the final year, Harry wrote a dissertation on LGBT representation in children’s books.

They looked at not only the characters and storylines in the books, but also the authors and illustrators making those stories. They also looked at the publishing industry as a whole and how it deals with representation and diversity. Harry’s dissertation was the inspiration for their debut picture book, called Grandad's Camper, which publishes with Andersen Press in the UK in spring 2021."

https://www.herts.ac.uk/about-us/equali ... y-woodgate

It's a shame Harry didn't spend more time learning how to draw. The illustrations aren't actually very good.

[flash2015]

Where does that argument end? Would it be OK to show the kids the "Human Centipede" movie for example? We wouldn't want them protected from everything and sealed off in a cotton wool bubble and leave them unprepared for life, would we?

[Jamiet99uk]

Where does that argument end? Would it be OK to show the kids the "Human Centipede" movie for example? We wouldn't want them protected from everything and sealed off in a cotton wool bubble and leave them unprepared for life, would we?

I agree there has to be a line, I personally don't feel it should be drawn in the same place as Octavious does.

I also don't think Human Centipede should be shown to adults. That's some fucked up shit.

[flash2015]

I think I understand the progressive argument here?:
(1) all sexual preference is innate.
(2) All sexual preferences are equal to society except for those that harm others.
(3) You can't change someone's sexuality, you can only expose them to more things that will help them achieve self-actualization.

Thus these books help kids understand equality and help them get closer to self-actualization. Would my understanding be correct?

[Jamiet99uk]

I think I understand the progressive argument here?:
(1) all sexual preference is innate.
(2) All sexual preferences are equal to society except for those that harm others.
(3) You can't change someone's sexuality, you can only expose them to more things that will help them achieve self-actualization.

Thus these books help kids understand equality and help them get closer to self-actualization. Would my understanding be correct?

Are you asking me?

I'm not advocating in favour of this poorly-illustrated book. I'm saying this is a non-issue and Octavious's moral outrage is misplaced.

[Jamiet99uk]

But I guess the "progressive argument" for a book like this is simple. The message of the book, as I understand it from the coverage (I haven't read it) is that different people can have a wide range of different kinds of loving relationships, and that's a positive thing, which should be celebrated. It promotes tolerance and inclusion and opposes prejudice and bigotry.

Does that make sense?

[flash2015]

I guess the opposing view in this is that there are many people that still feel that sex is primarily for procreation inside a committed relationship. They will tolerate (not celebrate) people that have different sexual preferences and different family structures but they would like to be responsible for instilling their values about sexuality and relationships on their children.

Would you call them bigots if they got upset because the school is teaching something that disagrees with their values?

[Jamiet99uk]

I guess the opposing view in this is that there are many people that still feel that sex is primarily for procreation inside a committed relationship. They will tolerate (not celebrate) people that have different sexual preferences and different family structures but they would like to be responsible for instilling their values about sexuality and relationships on their children.

Would you call them bigots if they got upset because the school is teaching something that disagrees with their values?

Well, this suggests two alternate approaches:

1. The school teaches only a very traditional, perhaps religiously-based, model of relationship, where sex occurs only between a husband and a wife inside a formal marriage and anything else is a sin punishable by an eternity in Preston*.

2. The school teaches absolutely nothing at all about sex and relationships and leaves it entirely to parents to provide this information.

Option 1 I strongly object to, because it is pushing only one narrative and fosters mistrust of any relationships that don't conform to the traditional conservative model.

Option 2 appears more neutral but risks some children not receiving any guidance at all, while others may inherit a narrow world-view from their parents rather than learning tolerance of all relationships.


* Sorry, typo, I meant "hell". Preston is a town in Northwest England which is virtually indistinguishable except the weather isn't as nice as it probably is in hell.

[Octavious]

But I guess the "progressive argument" for a book like this is simple. The message of the book, as I understand it from the coverage (I haven't read it) is that different people can have a wide range of different kinds of loving relationships, and that's a positive thing, which should be celebrated. It promotes tolerance and inclusion and opposes prejudice and bigotry.

Does that make sense?

It doesn't, though. It promotes fringe sexual kinks at the expense of excluding religious communities and secular conservatives and moderates (and I dare say quite a few lefties). It turns what should be a safe and welcoming environment into somewhere that is actively hostile and threatening. And it does so for no benefit whatsoever other than the self satisfaction of a few freaks at the fringes of the gay and lesbian community who are pushing this shit.

And the impact of this, as those freaks know full well, is to generate anger and hate and distrust that lessons the quality of life of everyone and puts LGBT people at increased risk.

[Octavious]

Well, this suggests two alternate approaches:

Amusing straw man is amusing

Also, is Preston all that bad? Can it really be worse than Bolton?

[Jamiet99uk]

Well, this suggests two alternate approaches:

Amusing straw man is amusing

Also, is Preston all that bad? Can it really be worse than Bolton?

"Similar in awfulness to Bolton" was the motto of the Preston Tourist Board from 1994 to 1997.

[Jamiet99uk]

But I guess the "progressive argument" for a book like this is simple. The message of the book, as I understand it from the coverage (I haven't read it) is that different people can have a wide range of different kinds of loving relationships, and that's a positive thing, which should be celebrated. It promotes tolerance and inclusion and opposes prejudice and bigotry.

Does that make sense?

It doesn't, though. It promotes fringe sexual kinks at the expense of excluding religious communities and secular conservatives and moderates (and I dare say quite a few lefties). It turns what should be a safe and welcoming environment into somewhere that is actively hostile and threatening. And it does so for no benefit whatsoever other than the self satisfaction of a few freaks at the fringes of the gay and lesbian community who are pushing this shit.

And the impact of this, as those freaks know full well, is to generate anger and hate and distrust that lessons the quality of life of everyone and puts LGBT people at increased risk.

What is hostile and threatening about a man wearing leather pants?

[Jamiet99uk]

And if you want to talk about books that are not suitable for children, the bible is full of hatred and pain and death and indiscriminate murder. It certainly should be kept away from schools.

[flash2015]

Let's just say it could be worse. At least its not Germany:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/germ ... -kdln8bpxj

Bypassing the paywall: https://archive.ph/2GUKC

A more culture war-ish source which is a bit more hyperbolic: https://reduxx.info/germany-sex-educati ... ion-rooms/

It is hard to find neutral sources here.

[Jamiet99uk]

It is hard to find neutral sources here.

This statement, unfortunately, I agree with.

[Jamiet99uk]

Let's just say it could be worse. At least its not Germany:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/germ ... -kdln8bpxj

Bypassing the paywall: https://archive.ph/2GUKC

A more culture war-ish source which is a bit more hyperbolic: https://reduxx.info/germany-sex-educati ... ion-rooms/

It is hard to find neutral sources here.

This does seem a very risky approach, I would not support this. I can understand that this would cause a negative reaction.

Obviously this is a very different example than the case of the book Octavious mentioned (and this German policy is not directly related to any LGBT issues).

[Fluminator]

Don't turn into Fluminator. Find something better to do.

I've been summoned. Catching up now

[Fluminator]

One thing that's always confused me is Drag Queen Story Time. That seems a little sketchy to me since their whole point is sexualization.
Granted I think the point of Drag Queens go completely over my head. Is it like Wrestling but for gay people?

[Jamiet99uk]

their whole point is sexualization.

Source for this claim?

[flash2015]

One thing that's always confused me is Drag Queen Story Time. That seems a little sketchy to me since their whole point is sexualization.
Granted I think the point of Drag Queens go completely over my head. Is it like Wrestling but for gay people?

If I understand correctly, Drag Queen Story Hour is something parents decide to send their kids to. It isn't something forced on kids to attend.

I think the concern with it isn't the sexualization but the very ideological focus of the content and its funding by the government. For example, a comment praising the NYC version of it says "DQSH is really about connecting with kids, helping them to understand identity and intersectionality."

There would be outrage if NYC was funding "Bible Story Hour". Why is this different?