MAFIA 77: RETURN TO THE WEST [GAME THREAD] - [HIDDEN]

[bozotheclown]

If I throw suspicion at you I have to talk to you so I’d rather just keep it in my head until I’m confident it may matter

Convenient.

If you were less of an uncompromising asshole toward me in everything you do maybe I’d actually be up to playing the game with you instead of doing all I can to ignore your existence for my own sanity’s sake. But rather than looking in the mirror and and acknowleding that maybe, just maybe, you’re the one who chooses to make other people feel the way that they do about you, you continue to be the way that you are. I sincerely wish nothing but the best for you, but toward me you are an unabated piece of shit and it blows my mind that you haven’t considered that I actually go far out of my way to avoid any interaction with you.

See yall tomorrow.

I think ghug stated good reasons for suspecting bo_sox and did not say anything that would provoke this kind of reaction, and this reminds me of something ghug did to PE once when ghug was mafia and PE made a good case against him. I also remember seeing this kind of thing from bo_sox as mafia before, directed toward me.

I also don't think it is a coincidence that ghug is no longer here to argue his case on bo_sox.

##VOTE bo_sox

[Balki Bartokomous]

Convenient.

If you were less of an uncompromising asshole toward me in everything you do maybe I’d actually be up to playing the game with you instead of doing all I can to ignore your existence for my own sanity’s sake. But rather than looking in the mirror and and acknowleding that maybe, just maybe, you’re the one who chooses to make other people feel the way that they do about you, you continue to be the way that you are. I sincerely wish nothing but the best for you, but toward me you are an unabated piece of shit and it blows my mind that you haven’t considered that I actually go far out of my way to avoid any interaction with you.

See yall tomorrow.

I think ghug stated good reasons for suspecting bo_sox and did not say anything that would provoke this kind of reaction, and this reminds me of something ghug did to PE once when ghug was mafia and PE made a good case against him. I also remember seeing this kind of thing from bo_sox as mafia before, directed toward me.

I also don't think it is a coincidence that ghug is no longer here to argue his case on bo_sox.

##VOTE bo_sox

I find this case from Bozo to be pretty persuasive.

@Bozo, can you focus on rdrivera and share your thoughts on that slot?

[Balki Bartokomous]

I am glad to see Bo post. I hope you feel better.

I am also glad that we have three Town clears! Apologies to BunnyGo for misreading him for two days. At least I wasn’t confident! When I’m confident, I become a real dick. At least then you would remember me.

I plan to read some ISOs within our VT pool, and I hope others will do that too. I’ll go ahead and try to rank the VTs from most likely to be town on down based on vibes and rough memory before I go to bed tonight. But I really should re-read and look again at some of the votes with all the new data we have:

Most likely to be Town
Bozo
Damo
Chaqa
Bo
Lfischl
Rdrivera
Most likely to be Scum

Things to do:

- Look at the votes again with all the new knowledge
- ISO the VT claimers
- Try to find any unpairing that we can find. With a pool this small, any unpairings (people who cannot be scum teammates) are gold.

[bozotheclown]

If you were less of an uncompromising asshole toward me in everything you do maybe I’d actually be up to playing the game with you instead of doing all I can to ignore your existence for my own sanity’s sake. But rather than looking in the mirror and and acknowleding that maybe, just maybe, you’re the one who chooses to make other people feel the way that they do about you, you continue to be the way that you are. I sincerely wish nothing but the best for you, but toward me you are an unabated piece of shit and it blows my mind that you haven’t considered that I actually go far out of my way to avoid any interaction with you.

See yall tomorrow.

I think ghug stated good reasons for suspecting bo_sox and did not say anything that would provoke this kind of reaction, and this reminds me of something ghug did to PE once when ghug was mafia and PE made a good case against him. I also remember seeing this kind of thing from bo_sox as mafia before, directed toward me.

I also don't think it is a coincidence that ghug is no longer here to argue his case on bo_sox.

##VOTE bo_sox

I find this case from Bozo to be pretty persuasive.

@Bozo, can you focus on rdrivera and share your thoughts on that slot?

rdrivera typically does not post a lot, but I do not think he has been pushing his scum reads much this game, which may indicate he is mafia.

rdrivera gave some scum reads D2, but did not give a strong opinion on anyone, so he could have just been keeping his voting options open:

Interesting, no-one voted for me so far. So I feel I should post this preemptively, just in case folks do vote for me – I don't want this post to come across as being reactive to that.

- I still believe that following through on the binding vote makes the most sense and is the optimal move. For reasons of Pool of Elimination coupled with yavozovic thread.

- If you disagree, I humbly request that you vote for me. The rules say nothing about surviving being a part of the victory conditions AFAICT, merely that our side wins. So when my role as a Townie will be revealed upon my death, that should give the good Townies enough info to win the game IMHO – assuming they will spend the time to carefully re-read the backscroll of last night and today. So I can "pawn sacrifice" myself and it's a win/win either way in my mind.

Think about it – either the above is sincere, so let me do my "pawn sacrifice" if you are not onboard with the binding vote. Or the above is a reverse psychology attempt by a Mafia, so vote me and kill a Mafia. You win either way!

Thank you in advance!

I still think you are town but this post is really bad. If you are town you should not want to sacrifice yourself. Townies have two goals: finding scum and showing they are townies to other town people. Town usually win by forming a town core and not by some next level PR play.

This said, my town core now includes Balki, Koala and Worcej.

I feel Bozo and Chaq seeming just not invested in the game, which is a bit scummy. Lfishcl and Yav are just coasting and are not bad choices too. But I will keep my ##vote Damo, his reads are just platitudes. Town read Bozo for stating the obvious, vibes, feel...

I still think the most suspicious thing about rdrivera is what I previously pointed out about his first post being similar to his first post last game.

[bo_sox48]

Convenient.

If you were less of an uncompromising asshole toward me in everything you do maybe I’d actually be up to playing the game with you instead of doing all I can to ignore your existence for my own sanity’s sake. But rather than looking in the mirror and and acknowleding that maybe, just maybe, you’re the one who chooses to make other people feel the way that they do about you, you continue to be the way that you are. I sincerely wish nothing but the best for you, but toward me you are an unabated piece of shit and it blows my mind that you haven’t considered that I actually go far out of my way to avoid any interaction with you.

See yall tomorrow.

I think ghug stated good reasons for suspecting bo_sox and did not say anything that would provoke this kind of reaction, and this reminds me of something ghug did to PE once when ghug was mafia and PE made a good case against him. I also remember seeing this kind of thing from bo_sox as mafia before, directed toward me.

I also don't think it is a coincidence that ghug is no longer here to argue his case on bo_sox.

##VOTE bo_sox

Whoever killed ghug did me a favor, and they deserve an easy miskill for doing that good deed. It’s a smart plan, so if it’s yours well done. It’s against the spirit of the game, but this site is full of rule-bending, manipulative psychopaths - myself among them - and I wouldn’t expect that to matter to anyone.

I wonder what it will take for some of you to realize that ghug fills some empty void in his life with unbridled hatred toward me. He doesn’t speak of or to me without slipping in some sort of degradation. It’s not as if all of you love me to death and he’s on some sort of island, obviously; I’m not blind. But ghug goes above and beyond to make sure that I not only receive his harassment but can’t actually be on parts of this site that I’ve been running for many years now without either putting up with it or confronting it. Against my better judgment I’ve always chosen the former and gone to great lengths to try and make us work (among other things, him briefly being an admin was my idea) because the two of us could actually accomplish a lot of cool shit given the chance, but it just hasn’t worked. So here I am, doing the other thing!

I hope he gets the help he needs to overcome whatever issues he has faced in life that he thinks he is better off taking out on me than handling like an adult would. Until he does I’ll be blocking him so that his antics don’t get in the way of a good game anymore, and if the council has any issue with me not seeing his posts unless I make an effort to do so I suggest they speak with him about reconciling the matter because I’m pretty fuckin over it.

To you, bozo, on the off chance you don’t already know I’m town I hope you realize when I flip town that every word of that post - and this one! - is real and that your judgment that ghug did not do anything to “provoke” me ignores years, hell, nearly a full decade now, of beratement that I’ve taken without a fuss and ignores that I, like so many others, have feelings and emotions that don’t get contained in a vacuum for the sake of a game on the internet.

[KoalaAttack]

OK, I did some ISO as requested – and I ##vote lfischl



Rationale 1) – the combination of not being around for real life reasons yet choosing yav for not being around is Suspicious. Also, the promises to become more active have not materialized AFAICT. Which would be totally cool by itself – life happens – but when they then vote against someone else for being inactive, that feels hypocritical.

For my activity, sorry I haven't been around as much, I had a pretty awful weekend with some personal stuff and then I got sick, but I should be around more tonight and tomorrow.

Prefer him over bunny who is more active

I’m not one to be saying he’s inactive, but he just hasn’t been here, unless he’s lurking. I would accept a bunny vote but he wouldn’t be my preferred.

Rationale 2) They commented on my terrible yav vote right after the vote ended, and then said they didn't get back in time to contribute to the vote. While it's of course possible lfischl got back just in time to complain but too late to contribute to the vote, I find it unlikely give the overall low activity

bet he was lurking the whole time

You could have broken the tie in the other direction if you found it so questionable.

I did not get back to my computer until after the vote, I would have

Rationale 3)

What do you mean by iso. Not used to terminology sorry

I would prefer lfischl or damo over worcej, but there was no point in voting for them. Also, I may by be biased from M1073.

I searched lfischl and looks like they played many Mafia games. Given that by this point even I know what ISO is, I find it hard to believe they do not.

[BunnyGo]

fish has played many games here, koala.

I grade your rationals:

C-
A-
A

Very nicely done!

[Jamiet99uk]

VOTE COUNT 3.2:

bo_sox48 (2) – worcej, bozotheclown
lfischl (2) – Chaqa, KoalaAttack
bozotheclown (1) - damo666
damo666 (1) - BunnyGo
rdrivera2005 (1) - Balki Bartokomous
Balki Bartokomous (1) - bo_sox48

NOBODY is set to be anythinged.

12 hours and 5 minutes are left in D3.

[damo666]

Again, sorry if this is naive because I'm new, but:

But the mass claim business happened after the night was over. So during the night they would only have a maybe-Watcher maybe-protected by a maybe-Doctor and/or maybe-watching the maybe-Doctor.

And wouldn't the WIFOM approach be "let them waste the mutual Watching/Healing on each other while we take out someone else?"

Yes if worcej was townreading Chaqa. They might have thought worcej was bluffing but that's a bit of a stretch. The most obvious reason Chaqa wasn't targeted is that Chaqa is scum.

I don't see any logic in both scenarios. If Chaqa is scum and they choose to kill a VT instead of Worcej why did he claimed VT instead of keeping the Watcher claim?

And if he is town and Mafia believed him why they didn't kill him and go for a VT if the all will claim VT, it also doesn't make sense.

I can see a scenario where Bo is scum and went missing so scum have limited actions options buy I think GM would have handled it.
[/qu
If scum Chaqa kept to the watcher claim wouldn't he be at high risk of DK.

[damo666]

I suppose it is WIFOM, but voting for one of the top wagons is the "town" thing to do, so what would bo_sox gain by waiting longer as mafia?

Overall I think it is NAI, but bo_sox trying to enforce the worcej hammer when he did not vote for worcej N1 looks scum motivated, especially coming from bo_sox, who I would not expect to go along with hammering a player he did not suspect for a potential gambler item.

Apparently D1 votes are meaningful now lol. Scum is gonna sit out a TvT D1, not drive it. Town is gonna put their own ass in the fire in order to keep things moving and not let them stagnate into an information-less abyss, which is exactly what was happening when I built an impromptu case on pyxxy.

I hammered on worcej because that was the plan and I agreed with it. What’s it matter if I scumread worcej? For the record, I felt he was “off” ans a reasonable target for the gambler as well as a reasonable kill that would give us a lot more to talk about from D1, especially if he flipped mafia. Going along with that plan didn’t bother me at all, and doing it quickly made a lot more sense than wasting 72 hours ho humming our energy away.

Where do you come up with this idea that I stay within this chalk outline of contrarianism as town and never agree with anyone or do anything that someone else proposes? I don’t listen to you very often because your ideas typically suck, but if you ever come up with a good one I’ll be on board.

The idea that scum will "sit out" a T vs. T D1 vote is not universally true, as proven by the last game where damo and lfischl both voted to break a T vs. T tie D1. Ending the day off the wagons or voting without a reason are the things that look more suspicious, so I expect you would avoid those things as mafia.

My opinion is formed by past experience, where I think the ideas that you typically don't like are on average better ideas than giving up a meaningful D2 in order to get a gambler that might not exist a random item. I did not expect anyone, including Balki, to follow through on trying to enforce the vote.

My and lfischl votes last game were last minute. Bo's was 20 minutes out. Why do you keep ignoring this important difference?

[BunnyGo]

Apparently D1 votes are meaningful now lol. Scum is gonna sit out a TvT D1, not drive it. Town is gonna put their own ass in the fire in order to keep things moving and not let them stagnate into an information-less abyss, which is exactly what was happening when I built an impromptu case on pyxxy.

I hammered on worcej because that was the plan and I agreed with it. What’s it matter if I scumread worcej? For the record, I felt he was “off” ans a reasonable target for the gambler as well as a reasonable kill that would give us a lot more to talk about from D1, especially if he flipped mafia. Going along with that plan didn’t bother me at all, and doing it quickly made a lot more sense than wasting 72 hours ho humming our energy away.

Where do you come up with this idea that I stay within this chalk outline of contrarianism as town and never agree with anyone or do anything that someone else proposes? I don’t listen to you very often because your ideas typically suck, but if you ever come up with a good one I’ll be on board.

The idea that scum will "sit out" a T vs. T D1 vote is not universally true, as proven by the last game where damo and lfischl both voted to break a T vs. T tie D1. Ending the day off the wagons or voting without a reason are the things that look more suspicious, so I expect you would avoid those things as mafia.

My opinion is formed by past experience, where I think the ideas that you typically don't like are on average better ideas than giving up a meaningful D2 in order to get a gambler that might not exist a random item. I did not expect anyone, including Balki, to follow through on trying to enforce the vote.

My and lfischl votes last game were last minute. Bo's was 20 minutes out. Why do you keep ignoring this important difference?

why do you think the difference is important?

[damo666]

I am absolutely convinced the scum team are entirely within {Balki, Bozo, Chaqa, lfischl, rdr}

I will consider each of the 10 groups to see if I can eliminate.

Current thoughts on each

Balki - most significant is the CWV retraction but that of itself is NAI. I like his recent unpair comment. Slight townlean.

Bozo - scumread for the Bo vote thing.

Chaqa - torn between him being a vt baiting a nk with the watcher claim or simply scum. Why isn't he dead? Problem is the next three NKs will be the PRs. Can we afford to not kill him?.

Lfischl - looks a bit like previous scum game but I think he'd play like that as town. Make yourself more obvious if you are town.

rdr - very difficult to read. Gets a 60% scumread.

[damo666]

The idea that scum will "sit out" a T vs. T D1 vote is not universally true, as proven by the last game where damo and lfischl both voted to break a T vs. T tie D1. Ending the day off the wagons or voting without a reason are the things that look more suspicious, so I expect you would avoid those things as mafia.

My opinion is formed by past experience, where I think the ideas that you typically don't like are on average better ideas than giving up a meaningful D2 in order to get a gambler that might not exist a random item. I did not expect anyone, including Balki, to follow through on trying to enforce the vote.

My and lfischl votes last game were last minute. Bo's was 20 minutes out. Why do you keep ignoring this important difference?

why do you think the difference is important?

As scum if it is a tie very close to EOD you want to ensure a kill. With twenty minutes to go you can wait and monitor. The fact Bo did not wait unscums him in my eyes. Bozo is studiously ignoring this difference.

[damo666]

Given the limited pool I think we are bound to see some bussing today. Consider it with your D3 vca.

[damo666]

Inviting thoughts on the following proposition:

Considering we only have one mk left I think there is no choice but to kill Chaqa given his survival..

[BunnyGo]

Damnit damo...I really hope you're town.

##vote lfi

[BunnyGo]

But I think you're wrong about bo's voting reasoning.

Probably will vote in the following pool today:

fish, chaqa, rdr

Snow day is official, so kids get a surprise 4 day weekend. Which is great for them.

[damo666]

Damnit damo...I really hope you're town.

##vote lfi

I am, don't fret. Why lfischl?

[damo666]

But I think you're wrong about bo's voting reasoning.

Probably will vote in the following pool today:

fish, chaqa, rdr

Snow day is official, so kids get a surprise 4 day weekend. Which is great for them.

Of those my biggest pref is for Chaqa

[BunnyGo]

Damnit damo...I really hope you're town.

##vote lfi

I am, don't fret. Why lfischl?

Was just skimming last game where the two of you were scum day 3 and bussed someone. You look different, he looks same.

Koala made 2 good points above too.