Austria vs Bots

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Trigfea63
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#361 Post by Trigfea63 » Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:58 am

My game is far less interesting. I've got Apulia Convoy II and a bunch of support-holds set to launch. Here goes:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

It worked. Italy and Russia support-held. Germany attacked Vienna with 3. England attacked Rome again. I'll give one last look at the solo possibility. It seems the only way it works is if I take over all of Italy, destroy the Tuscany army in the process, and then get 5 fleets lined up along the Western coast to move against TYS or GoL. And England just sits by and watches me do all that.

More tomorrow.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#362 Post by Trigfea63 » Sat Oct 08, 2022 7:42 pm

I've decided not to settle for a draw just yet. E/G clearly have a stalemate position and could easily stop me, if they played defensively for a draw. But bots are notoriously bad at the endgame, and in particular they don't have a grasp of stalemate line concepts. So perhaps if I keep going, making surgical strikes where I can, while E/G continue attacking as they have been ... who knows?

My general plan of action: Take Venice from Apulia. Build an army, convoy it to Apulia. Take Rome from Naples. Build a fleet, advance the fleet line. I should then have 5 fleets: in Rome, Naples, Ionian, Adriatic, Aegean. Take Tuscany, destroying the English army. Reposition the fleets. I might then have England in a position where he has to choose whether to defend Piedmont or Tyrrhenian.

Of course, at many points along the way, England could stop attacking, and set up a sustainable defensive position. Let's see if he does.

There is also risk at a couple of points along the way. For example, when I take Venice, England and Germany together could take it from me in the 1 turn before I can get the new army to Apulia. Or, when I take Rome, I'll have to leave Naples vacant for 1 turn and England could unexpectedly order TYS-->NAP. Or Italy or Russia could do something unexpected. I guess I view the risk level of these possibilities as pretty low with the bots. Anyway, I have a draw secured. Why not try my plan and see how the bots respond?

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#363 Post by Trigfea63 » Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:01 pm

Phase I successfully completed!

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

For the convoy, I'll need to leave either Ionian or Venice undefended. I missed that point in developing the plan. I'm debating between ADR support-hold ION, NAP support-hold ROM, -or- ADR support-hold VEN, NAP-->TYS (cuts support for an English attack on Rome or Ionian).

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#364 Post by DougJoe » Sun Oct 09, 2022 1:59 am

Trigfea63 wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 8:01 pm
Phase I successfully completed!

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

For the convoy, I'll need to leave either Ionian or Venice undefended. I missed that point in developing the plan. I'm debating between ADR support-hold ION, NAP support-hold ROM, -or- ADR support-hold VEN, NAP-->TYS (cuts support for an English attack on Rome or Ionian).
Glad to see you're going for it. Nice idea to get Venice first.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#365 Post by Trigfea63 » Sun Oct 09, 2022 4:47 am

It's funny, I was looking back at the game I played earlier in this thread. The position in the Med/Italy is awfully similar. Except there I was England and the bot was Turkey.

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#366 Post by DougJoe » Sun Oct 09, 2022 11:39 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 7:42 pm
I guess I view the risk level of these possibilities as pretty low with the bots. Anyway, I have a draw secured. Why not try my plan and see how the bots respond?
Exactly. That's the way I feel in most bot games. Why not go for it? (side note, the longest bot game I've had went until 1951 where, as Turkey, I gave E/R several game years to see if they would mess up the stalemate, but they didn't.)

In my game, I played a couple of turns and now were in Spring 1911:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

In the Spring of 1910, I kinda had a tactical brain fart and lost Greece - my initial guess was that Italy was going to go for Greece, but then I thought, "hey, I should try to get Alb" whilst completely forgetting that he was likely to move from Albania to Greece - I could have just defended it with Ser/Bul. I tried to get into Ank, but guessed wrong on that, he used BLA/Ank to bounce in Con.

So for the fall, I thought I'd switch it up and try for Smy instead, and the best I could figure was that I should try Ser/Bul S Alb-Gre... and what do you know, Italy used AEG to bounce Smy, so Alb took Greece and destroyed the Italian army there. Italy rebuilt his army in Rome, of course, but at least it's over on that side of the Adriatic now...

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#367 Post by DougJoe » Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:22 am

DougJoe wrote:
Sun Oct 09, 2022 11:39 pm
Trigfea63 wrote:
Sat Oct 08, 2022 7:42 pm
I guess I view the risk level of these possibilities as pretty low with the bots. Anyway, I have a draw secured. Why not try my plan and see how the bots respond?
Exactly. That's the way I feel in most bot games. Why not go for it? (side note, the longest bot game I've had went until 1951 where, as Turkey, I gave E/R several game years to see if they would mess up the stalemate, but they didn't.)

In my game, I played a couple of turns and now were in Spring 1911:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

In the Spring of 1910, I kinda had a tactical brain fart and lost Greece - my initial guess was that Italy was going to go for Greece, but then I thought, "hey, I should try to get Alb" whilst completely forgetting that he was likely to move from Albania to Greece - I could have just defended it with Ser/Bul. I tried to get into Ank, but guessed wrong on that, he used BLA/Ank to bounce in Con.

So for the fall, I thought I'd switch it up and try for Smy instead, and the best I could figure was that I should try Ser/Bul S Alb-Gre... and what do you know, Italy used AEG to bounce Smy, so Alb took Greece and destroyed the Italian army there. Italy rebuilt his army in Rome, of course, but at least it's over on that side of the Adriatic now...
At this point, I think I have two strategic options:

The first is to use Sev to keep Russia out of Moscow and move Livonia towards Bohemia and see if it can help there, somehow. It's three turns away, though and that's a long time to try to keep Italy from making progress.

The second is to continue to use Livonia to keep Russia out of Moscow and try to slide Sev down to Arm and Arm to Syria in the hopes of somehow getting Smy or Con. Again, being able to build would probably be an issue but Italy losing a unit would probably be more important.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#368 Post by Trigfea63 » Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:28 am

DougJoe wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:22 am
At this point, I think I have two strategic options:

The first is to use Sev to keep Russia out of Moscow and move Livonia towards Bohemia and see if it can help there, somehow. It's three turns away, though and that's a long time to try to keep Italy from making progress.

The second is to continue to use Livonia to keep Russia out of Moscow and try to slide Sev down to Arm and Arm to Syria in the hopes of somehow getting Smy or Con. Again, being able to build would probably be an issue but Italy losing a unit would probably be more important.
I agree. I like your second option better. SEV-->ARM and ARM-->SYR gives you a realistic shot at Smyrna or CON and a net SC gain, and it puts pressure on Italy to defend the other Turkish centers. Also, it's a big plus if Italy's Aegean fleet moves to Smyrna. It's a lot easier fighting Italy when his fleets are on CON and Smyrna, instead of Aegean and Black Sea which you can't attack.

Another idea could be ARM supports Italian F CON-->SMY, and BUL-->CON. It works well if Italy tries bouncing in Smyrna. You could do that now, or in the Autumn after moving to Armenia and Syria.

These ideas do leave Bohemia pretty wide open to Italy. It's a whack-a-mole game you're playing, or squeeze-the-balloon maybe. Wherever you concentrate strength, weakness emerges somewhere else.

You might be able to clear a center for a build with TRI-->ALB, BUD-->TRI supported by VEN and SER. TRI-->ALB has the beneficial side effect of perhaps keeping Italy out of Albania. You could even support the move from Greece.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#369 Post by Trigfea63 » Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:18 pm

An alternative way to clear a center could be VIE-->BOH, with the added benefit that it blocks a potential Italian advance to Bohemia. Any home-SC-clearing moves will pretty unstable beyond the build phase, if you don't actually get a build.

* * *

In my game (https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large), I've tentatively entered NAP-->TyS, ADR support-hold VEN while I convoy the new army to Apulia. However, I have become less enamored of those moves while writing up the rationale for this thread. England can defeat the defense with either TyS-->ION supported by TUN, or TyS-->ROM supported by TUS, plus backfilling TyS. Engalnd hasn't tried attacking from TyS the last few turns, so perhaps the moveset is relatively safe.

The alternative option is to order NAP support-hold ROM, ADR support-hold ION, leaving the newly-acquired Venice undefended. I suppose the critical question is this: Is bot-England more likely to switch Tuscany to an attack on Venice? Or is he more likely to switch the mode of attack on Rome, to hit it from TyS (or attack Ionian from TyS)? I'm going to take another day to decide on this one.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#370 Post by DougJoe » Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:41 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:28 am
DougJoe wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:22 am
At this point, I think I have two strategic options:

The first is to use Sev to keep Russia out of Moscow and move Livonia towards Bohemia and see if it can help there, somehow. It's three turns away, though and that's a long time to try to keep Italy from making progress.

The second is to continue to use Livonia to keep Russia out of Moscow and try to slide Sev down to Arm and Arm to Syria in the hopes of somehow getting Smy or Con. Again, being able to build would probably be an issue but Italy losing a unit would probably be more important.
I agree. I like your second option better. SEV-->ARM and ARM-->SYR gives you a realistic shot at Smyrna or CON and a net SC gain, and it puts pressure on Italy to defend the other Turkish centers. Also, it's a big plus if Italy's Aegean fleet moves to Smyrna. It's a lot easier fighting Italy when his fleets are on CON and Smyrna, instead of Aegean and Black Sea which you can't attack.
The more I thought about it, the more I liked the second option as well... Italy seemed to be focused on not moving Tyo, so I decided to try to slide down to Syr and Arm:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Sev-Arm got bounced, and Con moved to Smy. So Con is open. Also, Italy tried to hit Trieste with 3 (which failed) and tried to backfill Ven with Rome, which of course didn't do anything - it's nice that that unit is still in Rom and not Apulia.
Trigfea63 wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:18 pm
In my game (https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large), I've tentatively entered NAP-->TyS, ADR support-hold VEN while I convoy the new army to Apulia. However, I have become less enamored of those moves while writing up the rationale for this thread. England can defeat the defense with either TyS-->ION supported by TUN, or TyS-->ROM supported by TUS, plus backfilling TyS. Engalnd hasn't tried attacking from TyS the last few turns, so perhaps the moveset is relatively safe.

The alternative option is to order NAP support-hold ROM, ADR support-hold ION, leaving the newly-acquired Venice undefended. I suppose the critical question is this: Is bot-England more likely to switch Tuscany to an attack on Venice? Or is he more likely to switch the mode of attack on Rome, to hit it from TyS (or attack Ionian from TyS)? I'm going to take another day to decide on this one.
Personally, I would lean towards leaving ION as the vulnerable unit and cover both centers. I think bot England will still go after either Venice or Rome (and I would lean towards Rome). The bot hasn't tried a supported attack on ION in 4 turns, I don't see any reason why it would start now.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#371 Post by DougJoe » Tue Oct 11, 2022 1:25 am

DougJoe wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:41 pm

The more I thought about it, the more I liked the second option as well... Italy seemed to be focused on not moving Tyo, so I decided to try to slide down to Syr and Arm:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Sev-Arm got bounced, and Con moved to Smy. So Con is open. Also, Italy tried to hit Trieste with 3 (which failed) and tried to backfill Ven with Rome, which of course didn't do anything - it's nice that that unit is still in Rom and not Apulia.
Ok, now what?

I think Italy is still going to throw three units at Trieste... I think my moves hinge on what Italy is going to do with AEG and whether or not he goes offense (Gre) or defense (Con).

Let's say he goes offense and tries to take Greece, tying up AEG and ION. In that case, I would guess that he would play Smy-Con & Arm-Con (he's done a lot of self-bouncing in Con alread) trying to self bounce to prevent Bul-Con. In response, I would play Sev-Arm, Syr-Smy, Bul S Smy-Con.

What about if he goes defense and uses AEG to try to defend Con? I think, in that case he would play Ank-Arm and then AEG-Con,Smy-Con, again self-bouncing. I think in that case I still play Sev-Arm, Syr-Smy, Bul S Smy-Con... but I could also then use Serbia to try to bounce in Tri with Bud & View S Ser-Tri, Tri-Alb.

I can't defend it with any sort of logic, but, between the two options, I think Italy will still try for Greece... so I'll defend it with Serbia and try to Jiu-jitsu him with Bulgaria...

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#372 Post by Trigfea63 » Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:09 am

DougJoe wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:41 pm
Trigfea63 wrote:
Mon Oct 10, 2022 4:18 pm
In my game (https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large), I've tentatively entered NAP-->TyS, ADR support-hold VEN while I convoy the new army to Apulia. However, I have become less enamored of those moves while writing up the rationale for this thread. England can defeat the defense with either TyS-->ION supported by TUN, or TyS-->ROM supported by TUS, plus backfilling TyS. Engalnd hasn't tried attacking from TyS the last few turns, so perhaps the moveset is relatively safe.

The alternative option is to order NAP support-hold ROM, ADR support-hold ION, leaving the newly-acquired Venice undefended. I suppose the critical question is this: Is bot-England more likely to switch Tuscany to an attack on Venice? Or is he more likely to switch the mode of attack on Rome, to hit it from TyS (or attack Ionian from TyS)? I'm going to take another day to decide on this one.
Personally, I would lean towards leaving ION as the vulnerable unit and cover both centers. I think bot England will still go after either Venice or Rome (and I would lean towards Rome). The bot hasn't tried a supported attack on ION in 4 turns, I don't see any reason why it would start now.
Yes, I think you're right. The new element in the current position is the Turkish unit in Venice. That shouldn't cause bot-England to think differently about the Ionian. I have changed my orders. I will note for the record, if I'm wrong, the loss of Ionian Sea will be pretty disastrous, much worse than the loss of Rome, or even Venice. The convoy will fail, and I'll have to scramble to cover all the places England could attack. But there's no winning in this game without risk. Let's give it a whirl:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Haha, after all that ... when I first checked the results, I thought I must have mis-ordered. But no, vengeful bot-Italy decided to attack Naples, so my support-hold was useless. Ah well, I probably should have thought of that. The good news is, 1 less enemy (E/I) unit to contend with. I guess I'll have to take Rome from England instead of taking it from Italy!

Phase II successfully completed.

* * *

In your game, I saw the results before I read your most recent post. I'll let you tell the results of the jiu-jitsu. I do agree with how you analyzed the position.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#373 Post by DougJoe » Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:53 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:09 am
Yes, I think you're right. The new element in the current position is the Turkish unit in Venice. That shouldn't cause bot-England to think differently about the Ionian. I have changed my orders. I will note for the record, if I'm wrong, the loss of Ionian Sea will be pretty disastrous, much worse than the loss of Rome, or even Venice. The convoy will fail, and I'll have to scramble to cover all the places England could attack. But there's no winning in this game without risk. Let's give it a whirl:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

Haha, after all that ... when I first checked the results, I thought I must have mis-ordered. But no, vengeful bot-Italy decided to attack Naples, so my support-hold was useless. Ah well, I probably should have thought of that. The good news is, 1 less enemy (E/I) unit to contend with. I guess I'll have to take Rome from England instead of taking it from Italy!

Phase II successfully completed.

* * *

In your game, I saw the results before I read your most recent post. I'll let you tell the results of the jiu-jitsu. I do agree with how you analyzed the position.
Hey, England did try for Rome again, guess I had that one right. I should have realized that Italy wouldn't hold, though, the bots sometimes do that kind of thing. Curious to hear how you are thinking you might get Rome back...

As far as my game goes...

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

...yes, that didn't work out quite like I'd hoped, but it's not bad at all. I'm not even sure I considered the supported move into Con now that I think about it after the fact. At least I got the part about Italy going for Greece correct.

The interesting think now is that while Smy could support Ank-Con, it cannot support Con-Ank. In fact, the only way that Italy can block Arm-Ank is by Con-Ank. He can also only defend Smyrna with a support hold from either AEG or Con...

...it's a little risky (because Bulgaria, but I don't think he's attacked that, like, ever) but right now I'm thinking:
Rum-Bul
Bul-Con
Arm S Syr-Smy

..hm..

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#374 Post by DougJoe » Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:38 pm

DougJoe wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:53 pm
As far as my game goes...

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

...yes, that didn't work out quite like I'd hoped, but it's not bad at all. I'm not even sure I considered the supported move into Con now that I think about it after the fact. At least I got the part about Italy going for Greece correct.

The interesting think now is that while Smy could support Ank-Con, it cannot support Con-Ank. In fact, the only way that Italy can block Arm-Ank is by Con-Ank. He can also only defend Smyrna with a support hold from either AEG or Con...

...it's a little risky (because Bulgaria, but I don't think he's attacked that, like, ever) but right now I'm thinking:
Rum-Bul
Bul-Con
Arm S Syr-Smy

..hm..
Well, I went for it... and I got into Con, as Italy did move Con-Ank and used AEG to defend Smy.

The only problem is that he finally figured out the move to Bohemia, which means this turn I have to guess as to the defense of Vie or Tri...

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#375 Post by Trigfea63 » Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:16 am

DougJoe wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:38 pm
DougJoe wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:53 pm
As far as my game goes...

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

...yes, that didn't work out quite like I'd hoped, but it's not bad at all. I'm not even sure I considered the supported move into Con now that I think about it after the fact. At least I got the part about Italy going for Greece correct.

The interesting think now is that while Smy could support Ank-Con, it cannot support Con-Ank. In fact, the only way that Italy can block Arm-Ank is by Con-Ank. He can also only defend Smyrna with a support hold from either AEG or Con...

...it's a little risky (because Bulgaria, but I don't think he's attacked that, like, ever) but right now I'm thinking:
Rum-Bul
Bul-Con
Arm S Syr-Smy

..hm..
Well, I went for it... and I got into Con, as Italy did move Con-Ank and used AEG to defend Smy.

The only problem is that he finally figured out the move to Bohemia, which means this turn I have to guess as to the defense of Vie or Tri...
Nice going! If things go right in Autumn, you could actually go +2, and Italy -2. Yes, it is reasonably possible!

In Turkey, you guarantee yourself +1 with BUL support-hold RUM, ARM-->ANK, SYR-->SMY. And CON can support either of the other moves, giving you a decent shot at +2 in Turkey. If you think Italy will play AEG support-hold SMY again, then CON support ARM-->ANK does the trick nicely. Or, if you expect SMY-->CON with support, you could hit SMY with CON support. ARM-->SMY supported by SYR also wins in some scenarios. You have a guess with Greece, Bulgaria and Aegean. If Italy attacks Greece with 2, then you would want to play BUL support-hold GRE, and you could afford to leave CON undefended, relying on cut supports to prevent a dislodge.

I've saved the best for last: You don't entirely have to guess how to defend Trieste and Vienna. If Italy goes for Vienna with 2, it seems likely it will be BOH-->VIE supported by TYR. (The other way leaves a hole at Tyrolia.) If that's right, you can defend both with cut support and the rule against self-dislodgement: TRI-->TYR, VIE-->TRI supported by SER and BUD. The only realistically possible Italian moveset that defeats that defense is TYR-->VIE.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#376 Post by DougJoe » Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:44 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:16 am
DougJoe wrote:
Tue Oct 11, 2022 5:38 pm
Well, I went for it... and I got into Con, as Italy did move Con-Ank and used AEG to defend Smy.

The only problem is that he finally figured out the move to Bohemia, which means this turn I have to guess as to the defense of Vie or Tri...
Nice going! If things go right in Autumn, you could actually go +2, and Italy -2. Yes, it is reasonably possible!

In Turkey, you guarantee yourself +1 with BUL support-hold RUM, ARM-->ANK, SYR-->SMY. And CON can support either of the other moves, giving you a decent shot at +2 in Turkey. If you think Italy will play AEG support-hold SMY again, then CON support ARM-->ANK does the trick nicely. Or, if you expect SMY-->CON with support, you could hit SMY with CON support. ARM-->SMY supported by SYR also wins in some scenarios. You have a guess with Greece, Bulgaria and Aegean. If Italy attacks Greece with 2, then you would want to play BUL support-hold GRE, and you could afford to leave CON undefended, relying on cut supports to prevent a dislodge.
I think you mean "Bul S Con, Arm-Ank, Syr-Smy" as a guarantee for a +1, as there is no unit in Rumania? Last night, I was thinking Bul S Gre, Arm & Smy S Con->Smy, but there are options. I'm not sure I want to dislodge Ank with Arm because then Ank could retreat to BLA and Arm isn't there to keep it out of Sev.
Trigfea63 wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:16 am
I've saved the best for last: You don't entirely have to guess how to defend Trieste and Vienna. If Italy goes for Vienna with 2, it seems likely it will be BOH-->VIE supported by TYR. (The other way leaves a hole at Tyrolia.) If that's right, you can defend both with cut support and the rule against self-dislodgement: TRI-->TYR, VIE-->TRI supported by SER and BUD. The only realistically possible Italian moveset that defeats that defense is TYR-->VIE.
That's a very good point, if Italy is to attack Vienna, he would probably most likely do so with Tyo S Boh-Vie. If he's going for Tri, it's probably Boh-Vie, Tyo & ADR S Ven-Tri. That's a very interesting set of moves - I hadn't tried to work out what to do yet and I'm honestly not sure I would have thought of that.

Also, England is on the move a little, too, and I didn't notice before the turn that he was in Norway and went for St.P with a fleet. It's too bad I don't have another unit up there to help.

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#377 Post by Trigfea63 » Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:11 pm

Yes, sorry, BUL support-hold CON (not RUM).

I guess the downside of the Trieste-Vienna defense is that you will definitely be left with nowhere to build ... Maybe there is another defense that's more risky but also leaves a home SC open?

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#378 Post by DougJoe » Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:04 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:11 pm
Yes, sorry, BUL support-hold CON (not RUM).

I guess the downside of the Trieste-Vienna defense is that you will definitely be left with nowhere to build... Maybe there is another defense that's more risky but also leaves a home SC open?
If there is, I haven't found one yet. He's either attacking Tri with 2 and Vie with 2, or Tri with 3... although a clever Italy would move Boh-Gal which would be a tactical nightmare for me. Still looking.

I have Syr & Arm S Con-Smy saved right now, but am considering Syr-Smy, Arm S Con-Ank. Still not sure I like the notion of Ank retreating to BLA even in that case, though, because of having to deal with BLA-Rum.

Diplomacy tactics are fun!

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Re: Austria vs Bots

#379 Post by Trigfea63 » Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:21 am

Yes, they are! Speaking of which, in my Turkey game, we are here, with Autumn 1912 moves next:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

My original plan was to take Rome from Naples, to start pushing the fleets up the west coast of Italy. That plan would have required ION-->TYS, to cut possible support for Rome. Naples would have been left vacant.

But now, with England having occupied Rome, it seems reasonably likely he might order ROM support TYS-->NAP. (It kind of has to be that, or else TYS support-hold ROM, ROM support PIE-->VEN.) Against the English attack on Naples, my original plan would get me Rome, at the cost of losing Naples, for no net gain. And with fleets in Naples, TYS, and Tunis, England could bring a lot of pressure to bear on Ionian Sea. It's looking a lot better to take Rome with an army for now, and work on repositioning later. I have these orders logged in, with 24 hours 'til deadline:

VEN-->ROM, supported by APU
ADR-->VEN
ION-->TYS supported by NAP

These moves ensure that I hold Venice and Naples. They also ensure that I capture Rome, unless England orders ROM-->VEN supported by PIE, a highly unlikely move since England needs to keep that army in Rome through the Autumn and, in my experience, the bots just aren't that clever.

The soft spot in the new plan is Ionian Sea. I guess I don't see bot-England making a concerted attack there either. In an Autumn move, it seems highly likely he will take a shot at Venice or Naples, or maybe just hold.

In Russia, Germany reverted to UKR-->RUM, MOS-->SEV, a moveset that leaves Ukraine vulnerable. However, if I take Ukraine with SEV-->UKR supported by RUM, ARM-->SEV, Moscow and Armenia will bounce in SEV, and my army in Ukraine could be destroyed the next turn. I'm going to wait before trying that move.

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DougJoe
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Re: Austria vs Bots

#380 Post by DougJoe » Thu Oct 13, 2022 8:50 pm

Trigfea63 wrote:
Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:21 am
Yes, they are! Speaking of which, in my Turkey game, we are here, with Autumn 1912 moves next:

https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large

My original plan was to take Rome from Naples, to start pushing the fleets up the west coast of Italy. That plan would have required ION-->TYS, to cut possible support for Rome. Naples would have been left vacant.

But now, with England having occupied Rome, it seems reasonably likely he might order ROM support TYS-->NAP. (It kind of has to be that, or else TYS support-hold ROM, ROM support PIE-->VEN.) Against the English attack on Naples, my original plan would get me Rome, at the cost of losing Naples, for no net gain. And with fleets in Naples, TYS, and Tunis, England could bring a lot of pressure to bear on Ionian Sea. It's looking a lot better to take Rome with an army for now, and work on repositioning later. I have these orders logged in, with 24 hours 'til deadline:

VEN-->ROM, supported by APU
ADR-->VEN
ION-->TYS supported by NAP

These moves ensure that I hold Venice and Naples. They also ensure that I capture Rome, unless England orders ROM-->VEN supported by PIE, a highly unlikely move since England needs to keep that army in Rome through the Autumn and, in my experience, the bots just aren't that clever.

The soft spot in the new plan is Ionian Sea. I guess I don't see bot-England making a concerted attack there either. In an Autumn move, it seems highly likely he will take a shot at Venice or Naples, or maybe just hold.

In Russia, Germany reverted to UKR-->RUM, MOS-->SEV, a moveset that leaves Ukraine vulnerable. However, if I take Ukraine with SEV-->UKR supported by RUM, ARM-->SEV, Moscow and Armenia will bounce in SEV, and my army in Ukraine could be destroyed the next turn. I'm going to wait before trying that move.
All seems reasonable - at least to my wearied mind at this moment.

In my game, in the fall of 1912 I decided to leave Greece to the fates and play Bul S Con, Con S Syr-Smy, Arm-Ank. I didn't want Con to move, but didn't want it to be destroyed either as I probably couldn't rebuild it. Also, I played the already mentioned tricky defense of the Austrian homeland. Italy attacked Tri with 2 and Vie with two (support from Tyo, as expected). Italy also attacked Greece so I ended up losing Greece but gained Smy. I was not able to build, but Italy was -1 and pulled Ank which now leaves it wide open for Arm to move into if needed. In other news, it looks like England is setting up to take StP with an army, though, which I'm not sure I like.

In the spring, I kept things defensive in Turkey. Same tactics in Tri/Vie. Tried to take Greece back. England did take StP from Russia, and Italy switch to a 3 on Tri attack, which failed. The interesting thing was that he moved EAS-ION (I'm not sure what that's about) which means that Arm can walk into Ank and not have to defend Smy. I still don't see a good way to open up a home center for a build and I'm a little nervous about what England is up to, but I *think* I can move Arm-Ank and still get back if needed. Not sure yet.

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