MAFIA LVIII (58) - WITCHFINDER GENERAL - GAME THREAD

[bozotheclown]

One of the goals of the hypo claims is to help keep the PRs hidden as long as possible. Take the Weak Doctor, for instance, if that role exists. The Weak Doctor would want to leave some clue who they targeted in case they targeted a mafia and got killed. However, these kinds of clues can help the mafia and 3P identify the player as a PR. If everyone participated in hypo claiming Weak Doctor targets, the Weak Doctor would not have to try to give any other clues, and the mafia and 3P would only have Weak Doctor claims from everyone without even knowing if Weak Doctor is an active role.

I had not considered the Witch role, and although it does not seem likely a Witch would be able to reach their win condition, the possibility of a Witch is another reason why we should consider hypo claims to help keep the PRs hidden.

This is a two cutting sword though. If half the playerlist responds, the scum can narrow down by removing anyone that claimed to have targetted a scum member but did not end up dying. This is especially bad if it is announced by people before EoN.

Also, I do not see why you think the witch is so weak. It just needs to survive, those PRs will die a natural death as a consequence of the actual game going on.

But with an open setup scum can't even know if there is a Weak doctor or not, so it really doesn't narrow much the field for scum if enough players participate. The problem is to announce before EON as scum could just change his kill or RB to avoid a possible PR action.
So, I think we shouldn't go for it and just let PR play.

I do not think it is necessarily a bad think if we get the mafia to change their NK based on hypo claims for a role that may not even exist.

[ghug]

I still think we're more likely to out the weak doc than save him doing this.

Starting to townread:
Vecna for hating the game start
Foxy for already seeming more into it than last game. Also whining at Rd about the spreadsheet thing strikes me as more likely to be a town thing.
Damo a little for thinking the game is scum sided, but everything else he's done has been such deeply garbage and I really really hate British people.

Royalists, roundheads or all of them?

I like IDLES and that's about it

[ghug]

Someone who isn't bozo and wants the hypoclaim, how do you handle the fact that 60% of people are just not going to do it?

bozo please stop talking it's better for everyone that way.

[seth24c]

I mean looking at the Weak Doc - screw hypo-doccing, why bother risking a save in the first place? Better for it, if it exists, to stick around for the long term by no-saving until we inevitably have an outed PR - which the Weak Doc would then save to confirm it's real.

The way I read the roles is theoretically possible that the bodyguard and weak doctor (if in play) could save themselves indefinitely from anything except the witch redirecting or the strongman kill by both targeting the other with their actions. Likely not something that will come into play but if both roles are in play and one got outed it is something to consider. But yes I agree that just saving at random in the early game seems too risky unless the doc was very confident of their read.

[bozotheclown]

When are we finally going to roll scum together Ghug?

It feels like its been an eternity since I last played a game with you regardless

Someday, baby. Yeah I hadn't played in like a year until Flum talked me into the last one.

I get the feeling Vecna and ghug are mafia and are taunting us.

[Foxcastle]

When are we finally going to roll scum together Ghug?

It feels like its been an eternity since I last played a game with you regardless

Someday, baby. Yeah I hadn't played in like a year until Flum talked me into the last one.

I get the feeling Vecna and ghug are mafia and are taunting us.

I think it’s possible, just not sure I think it’s likely.

[Foxcastle]

##VOTE DURGA

You’ve shown up twice now, but have you really shown up at all, even???

[rdrivera2005]

This is a two cutting sword though. If half the playerlist responds, the scum can narrow down by removing anyone that claimed to have targetted a scum member but did not end up dying. This is especially bad if it is announced by people before EoN.

Also, I do not see why you think the witch is so weak. It just needs to survive, those PRs will die a natural death as a consequence of the actual game going on.

But with an open setup scum can't even know if there is a Weak doctor or not, so it really doesn't narrow much the field for scum if enough players participate. The problem is to announce before EON as scum could just change his kill or RB to avoid a possible PR action.
So, I think we shouldn't go for it and just let PR play.

I do not think it is necessarily a bad think if we get the mafia to change their NK based on hypo claims for a role that may not even exist.

It will just get into endless WIFOM. Let's say I said my hypo was saving a town. Mafia can choose to NK me to see if they got the town lynched next day.
I don't want the game to get only focused on mechanics and WIFOM.

[bozotheclown]

I mean looking at the Weak Doc - screw hypo-doccing, why bother risking a save in the first place? Better for it, if it exists, to stick around for the long term by no-saving until we inevitably have an outed PR - which the Weak Doc would then save to confirm it's real.

The way I read the roles is theoretically possible that the bodyguard and weak doctor (if in play) could save themselves indefinitely from anything except the witch redirecting or the strongman kill by both targeting the other with their actions. Likely not something that will come into play but if both roles are in play and one got outed it is something to consider. But yes I agree that just saving at random in the early game seems too risky unless the doc was very confident of their read.

It is too bad there is only a 1/9 chance we have a Bodyguard and Weak Doctor.

[rdrivera2005]

When are we finally going to roll scum together Ghug?

It feels like its been an eternity since I last played a game with you regardless

Someday, baby. Yeah I hadn't played in like a year until Flum talked me into the last one.

I get the feeling Vecna and ghug are mafia and are taunting us.

This same thought crossed my mind when I read Vecna's post.

[Durga]

I'm alive but I haven't read anything yet. Sup

Since you haven’t read anything, who do you think is the best scum player, best town player (VT), and best town PR player on the list?

You're definitely the best scum player :)

[bozotheclown]

But with an open setup scum can't even know if there is a Weak doctor or not, so it really doesn't narrow much the field for scum if enough players participate. The problem is to announce before EON as scum could just change his kill or RB to avoid a possible PR action.
So, I think we shouldn't go for it and just let PR play.

I do not think it is necessarily a bad think if we get the mafia to change their NK based on hypo claims for a role that may not even exist.

It will just get into endless WIFOM. Let's say I said my hypo was saving a town. Mafia can choose to NK me to see if they got the town lynched next day.
I don't want the game to get only focused on mechanics and WIFOM.

If the Weak Doctor was the only NK, we would assume he was the mafia target, only if the Weak Doctor was a second NK would we be able to consider his target for that night. However, we would still know who he targeted all previous nights.

For the Desperado or Bodyguard, he likely would not want to attempt to use his power right away (if ever), but he could claim a target and withhold his action without any adverse result, because his claim would only be significant for the night he was a second NK, where we knew his kill was the result of his own action.

[Durga]

##VOTE DURGA

You’ve shown up twice now, but have you really shown up at all, even???

The sad truth is I'd put in more effort as scum, I haven't even read the set up yet lmao

[Durga]

What is this hypoclaim

[Durga]

Wait this is not the game for a mass claim who even suggested that. Stop

[bozotheclown]

What is this hypoclaim

From Epicmafia:

"A hypo claim is where everyone claims the same role, such as cop, and outs a report. This is done so that if the real cop dies, the town knows their report. This strategy is not foolproof, however, because it helps the mafia figure out the real cop in the first place."

[bozotheclown]

Wait this is not the game for a mass claim who even suggested that. Stop

I do not think anyone suggested a mass claim, but I said there would be some benefit of a mass claim, as well as the obvious detriments.

[Durga]

Jfc how about no. Can we just play the game normally for once

[bozotheclown]

Jfc how about no. Can we just play the game normally for once

How do you define "normally"?

[Durga]

Jfc how about no. Can we just play the game normally for once

How do you define "normally"?

Focus on finding scum instead of trying to break the game through shitty mechanics