M1011 - Revenge of the Space Mutants - Game Thread

[Vecna]

(although I really have no idea who I supposedly tunneled this game)

[Vecna]

And the real reason why ive been suspicious of your slot, is because of the way Nephtys interacted with Chaqa in his first posts, and the way Chaqa was voting him.

Those type of interactions are just way overdone between scum teammates all the damn time by players like Chaqa and Ghug. They usually have awkward entrances as scum if they have to sound natural, so they just try to hide it by fluffterbating around with their teammates.

[Vecna]

Also, if youre gonna quote a ton of posts, provide comments why they are relevant to quote and provide a thought process. Just quoting 50 posts and writing "hmmm" is completely irrelevant

[Vecna]

@Kgray

You stated before that Damo's play was reminiscent of his townplay in M54. can you elaborate what made you say that? Which parts of his play did you feel were similair?

[BunnyGo]

Interesting developments.

You do know I was just taunting you right bunny? With my comments about your nightkill selection and them other throwaway comments?

Because it sure felt like it made you think you had to switch from trying to convince me to trying to convince Kgray.

Do let me know what you find out though about whether I tunnel people as town.

Honestly? I’m never sure what to think with you.

I did consider that possibility.

I view the following problem in 2 steps:

1) I need to figure out which of you is town
2) I need to make sure that person doesn’t vote for me

I Am certainly leaning towards scum!kgray, but I haven’t ruled out you. I did my dive on you for that. (Still need to finish it. Life called) Notice a lot of what I quoted wasn’t evidence you were scum at all. Merely interesting posts.

Next will be my dive on kgray.

[BunnyGo]

And the real reason why ive been suspicious of your slot, is because of the way Nephtys interacted with Chaqa in his first posts, and the way Chaqa was voting him.

Those type of interactions are just way overdone between scum teammates all the damn time by players like Chaqa and Ghug. They usually have awkward entrances as scum if they have to sound natural, so they just try to hide it by fluffterbating around with their teammates.

Makes sense. I just didn’t see that said anywhere.

[BunnyGo]

Also, if youre gonna quote a ton of posts, provide comments why they are relevant to quote and provide a thought process. Just quoting 50 posts and writing "hmmm" is completely irrelevant

I was more gathering them. I was outside waiting on a tow truck.

I figure I’ll slot through and tickle my brain later. But you and kgray would also be interested in seeing the most relevant posts.

[BunnyGo]

@Kgray

You stated before that Damo's play was reminiscent of his townplay in M54. can you elaborate what made you say that? Which parts of his play did you feel were similair?

Not answering for her. Just want to note I regularly said the exact opposite. Having recently been his scum teammate, his tone screamed scum.

[kgray]

@Kgray

You stated before that Damo's play was reminiscent of his townplay in M54. can you elaborate what made you say that? Which parts of his play did you feel were similair?

Basically, I can never follow damo's logic or understand why he does things, and these are some examples of things he did that frustrated me in M54 and I also saw here:

• voting people without any apparent reason
• listing reads with no explanations
• changing his opinion/story on a whim
• stating random-seeming scumteam possibilities with absolutely confounding logic behind them that I can't follow at all
• vague and unhelpful responses when questioned on any of the above or why he thinks what he thinks

Damo was scum the past two games but I died relatively early in each of those, so prior to this game most of my interaction has been with town!damo. I've realized that I find damo frustrating and confusing, but that's just the way he is to me and that was enough to make me question if my read of him was genuine or if it was influenced by our different ways of thinking/playing.

[Jamiet99uk]

Vote count:

(0)

Exactly 20 hours remain.

[kgray]

And the real reason why ive been suspicious of your slot, is because of the way Nephtys interacted with Chaqa in his first posts, and the way Chaqa was voting him.

Those type of interactions are just way overdone between scum teammates all the damn time by players like Chaqa and Ghug. They usually have awkward entrances as scum if they have to sound natural, so they just try to hide it by fluffterbating around with their teammates.

Makes sense. I just didn’t see that said anywhere.

Are you really satisfied that that's enough to scumread you this far into the game? This seems like a blatant attempt to pocket Vecna.

[BunnyGo]

And the real reason why ive been suspicious of your slot, is because of the way Nephtys interacted with Chaqa in his first posts, and the way Chaqa was voting him.

Those type of interactions are just way overdone between scum teammates all the damn time by players like Chaqa and Ghug. They usually have awkward entrances as scum if they have to sound natural, so they just try to hide it by fluffterbating around with their teammates.

Makes sense. I just didn’t see that said anywhere.

Are you really satisfied that that's enough to scumread you this far into the game? This seems like a blatant attempt to pocket Vecna.

This seems like a blatant attempt to let people say what they want and listen...do I need to pick a fight about EVERYTHING?

[BunnyGo]

Makes sense. I just didn’t see that said anywhere.

Are you really satisfied that that's enough to scumread you this far into the game? This seems like a blatant attempt to pocket Vecna.

This seems like a blatant attempt to let people say what they want and listen...do I need to pick a fight about EVERYTHING?

I agree, he's clearly post-dating information and trying to make his logic fit his current head. He's not saying "hmm...I tunneled" or "I had no good reason but other people were doing it"

It may have been "hmm...the daychat decided he was out to lunch and a good mislynch target" but he can't say that. Why can't I just listen?

[kgray]

Are you really satisfied that that's enough to scumread you this far into the game? This seems like a blatant attempt to pocket Vecna.

This seems like a blatant attempt to let people say what they want and listen...do I need to pick a fight about EVERYTHING?

I agree, he's clearly post-dating information and trying to make his logic fit his current head. He's not saying "hmm...I tunneled" or "I had no good reason but other people were doing it"

It may have been "hmm...the daychat decided he was out to lunch and a good mislynch target" but he can't say that. Why can't I just listen?

Of course you can and should listen. But if you actually disagree with what he says, or don't think it makes sense, or think it's sketchy for any reason, and you're town trying to figure out Vecna's alignment, I would think you'd ask about it. If you considered these things and you think they could even slightly indicate scum!Vecna, why wouldn't you bring them up in the first place?

[BunnyGo]

This seems like a blatant attempt to let people say what they want and listen...do I need to pick a fight about EVERYTHING?

I agree, he's clearly post-dating information and trying to make his logic fit his current head. He's not saying "hmm...I tunneled" or "I had no good reason but other people were doing it"

It may have been "hmm...the daychat decided he was out to lunch and a good mislynch target" but he can't say that. Why can't I just listen?

Of course you can and should listen. But if you actually disagree with what he says, or don't think it makes sense, or think it's sketchy for any reason, and you're town trying to figure out Vecna's alignment, I would think you'd ask about it. If you considered these things and you think they could even slightly indicate scum!Vecna, why wouldn't you bring them up in the first place?

Because I'm trying to let the one of you who is scum hang yourself. If I go loud and argumentative Bunny, that drowns the conversation. I'm just trying to say "Ok" and listen more. For example, his posts remind me nothing of Vecna last game. Not at all. And I *knew* he was town last game. He didn't screw up something like "why he suspected something". Your posts are much more "for fu*#s sake Bunny, what are you thinking?!" which is much closer to how I remember town:kgray.

It's too early here, but I'll make my case tomorrow. I look forward to each of your cases too.

At the end of Day 5, Vecna tried hard to save Chaq. Compare this to end of Day 4 when Vecna tried hard to save Damo and CONGRATULATE Chaq on winning as scum.

On one hand I could chalk this up to "town!vecna doesn't know what's up and is unsure about everything".But that's not how town!vecna played last game. He bit into damo and me, and largely held on.

Then he was the one who suggested the sprint hammer to frame me. He know I wasn't there. And might have even remembered from the previous game I rarely sign on then.

[kgray]

Well, I'm drowning in wifom and it's late, and I'm struggling to organize my thoughts. So I'm just going to give my opinion on the main alignment-indicative things I've seen from each of you on reread and in general, but even this is a mess because there's a "but what if" that can be tacked on to basically every point. I think I'm leaning in one direction but I need to sleep on it so I stop second-guessing everything.

Bunny

Towny:
• This phase Bunny certainly seems to be putting some effort into solving the game, and it does seem like he's questioning things and thinking about things from more than one perspective. This is the exact opposite of what scum!Bunny did in M54.

• Bunny really challenged the town's general consensus that Chaqa was scum both on D3 and even after Chaqa's scummy last-minute vote switch. I originally had this as scummy, but if I'm going to give Vecna townie points for defending damo when nobody else would, I think I have to give Bunny townie points for this too.

• I do see Bunny's points about damo's tone being similar to that of scum!damo from last game. Bunny calling damo out for giving up like he did previously could be indicating that Bunny was fed up with his partner doing the same thing as before, but it could just be a good read. It does seem genuine to me.

Scummy:
• I'll go to my grave believing Neph intentionally avoided placing a vote that would matter on D1. Even if he wasn't caught up, if he were town he should have at least voted someone he scumread previously, and he'd said he'd be happy with either xorxes or damo. The fact that JOAT!damo was a an option but town!xorxes was in the lead when Neph checked in, but Neph stayed on his joke-vote of worcej, is really, really suspicious.

• Bunny's push on me when he subbed in wasn't based on anything concrete, and I felt like he was trying to pick a fight with me. Scum!Bunny definitely doesn't shy away from that. He did drop it eventually (nothing like how aggressive he was in M54) but part of me wonders if that's because he realized no one else was buying it, and he wouldn't be able to get me lynched. Or it's just because he did believe my response was towny, and his initial read was genuine.

• The lack of a NK when Bunny wasn't around before the hammer is really suspicious.

• An lot of dead townies thought Bunny was the last scum. This doesn't mean they were right, but at least we know those were honest reads.

• Bunny keeping Vecna and me alive to push a mislynch on me based on Vecna stating he'd lynch me if I survived makes a lot of sense. But, tbf he hasn't been pushing that narrative as much as I'd expect him to if that were his plan.

Vecna (emc was totally null to me)

Towny:
• Even knowing now that damo was JOAT, Vecna's insistence that damo was acting like town!damo when basically nobody else townread damo would draw a lot of unnecessary attention for damo's teammate. But maybe he'd wifom out of that the way he might have been trying to do with his defense of Chaqa? I'd been townreading Vecna for his damo defense most of the game, so him saying he'd never save his teammate Chaqa like that could have been him playing into what he thinks I find towny/scummy.

• There have been little things that Vecna's said throughout the game that I found myself really agreeing with (eg, Summit not seeming obv!town like last game). Since I know I'm town, that makes me think he's got a towny perspective too.

• Just... overall Vecna feels towny to me. I don't know, could be good acting or me just misreading things.

Scummy:
• I'm no longer surprised that I'm still alive, but it really does make a lot more sense for Vecna to kill Tom and save Bunny than for Bunny to kill Tom and save Vecna.

• I can definitely see scum!Vecna hammering the day early so that Bunny not showing up and there not being a NK makes Bunny seem like the final scum.

• Tom's best guess for the last scum was Vecna, and Tom's reads have been pretty spot-on this game.

Shouldn't be used as a basis for a read, but still interesting:
• The last scum role left is the tough guy, and we know Vecna survived worcej's shot.

[Vecna]

Some short replies to points made here that I feel do not represent what happened:

Bunny trying to frame my actions surrounding Damo like they were scummy: I was indeed trying to save Damo. I was townreading Damo and scumreading Chaqa. Badly. What point is there to try and save a weak player damo by trying to redirect the wagon to the other scum, the much stronger scum player, chaqa? What scum ever does that? The doublevote was already used at that point so the role was useless. See, if you actually were trying to figure out my alignment you would look at if that action was in line with my reads and could come from a town mindset.

Day 5 my first thought was trying to create any situation where something could happen. Maybe see if Chaqa would try for another last minute jump with whomever was scum so I could jump back onto chaqa last minute. Along the way, Chaqa's appeal actually started working on me a little bit and and foolishly I was getting doubts (this shouldnt actually surprise you bunny, because you managed the same last game - so your statement I was stuck tunneling you and damo last game is not entirely truthful at all). Ill also say that time suddenly seemed to move very quickly those last 20 minutes, because Jamiet's DAY HAS ENDED came out of absolutely nowhere for me and I thought I was still operating with 10 minutes to go.

[Vecna]

Also, Kgray, you stating that I couldve just "hammered the day" to frame someone seems really dishonest after my attempt to use the GM to actually townclear bunny.

You appeared to also think it was possible, yet you seemed completely uninvested in actually getting to the bottom of what happened there

[Vecna]

I’m not shocked that Chaqa was scum.
I’m a little surprised bozo was town.
I’m floored that he was killed over kgray.

Kgray - why are you alive?

also, lets not forget there were two options to kill you Kgray.

The setup option is definitely a possibility. But the Bozo kill sure is a large influencer in Tom's poe pool.

Also just stating that I was tom's largest bet for scum while he didnt update any of his reads after those 2 flips is meh.

Tom also stated he was looking to shift from Chaqa to Bozo, so this clearly shows that the Chaqa appeal was working to make townies doubt their read.

Once again, ill state this: Scum would not move there unless it was guaranteed they could get a mislynch to happen since they would need to look their best for lylo

[Vecna]

Im having the problem that im not sure if I can actually be around tonight around EoD.