MAFIA 51 - LONDON BY GASLIGHT [HIDDEN]

[yavuzovic]

I didn't say anything like GMs will reveal a proof. They will let me know if it's allowed and I will reveal a proof, where it explains something.

[ItsHosuke]

I didn't say anything like GMs will reveal a proof. They will let me know if it's allowed and I will reveal a proof, where it explains something.

So, you didn't get a VT PM when you subbed in?

[ItsHosuke]

Holiday bullshit. No excuse but w/e.

##Vote CmdrLikely

There was a post near the end of Day 2 where people were trying to get some action going and he made an 'oh no anyone but Tem' post that just sits funny.

In addition, I reallllly dislike Tom's EoN reads. I don't see most of those players from the same prospective.

Yavu's spot just needs killed at this point. Too many subs and it's fucking unreadable.

A couple questions I saw at me:

- I feel Chaqa is a possible strongman in a gambit to power-kill Hyde. I don't see him as a goon due to the risk in getting a female kileld by Jack.

- Scum team A is so weak that if they end up getting voted up, they could actually tell us which kills were theirs as to try to get Team B lynched. Team B could do that as well, if one of thiers is about to catch a lynch.

We can just do Tem then.

Also, how are the scum teams supposed to out each other? I still don't see how they would've enough info to try lynch each other.

[ItsHosuke]

Yeah, let's just do Temy, I don't really see purple as that scummy anyways ##vote Temasek22

[xorxes]

A couple questions I saw at me:

- I feel Chaqa is a possible strongman in a gambit to power-kill Hyde. I don't see him as a goon due to the risk in getting a female kileld by Jack.

That makes so little sense, I don't even know what to do with it.

Town has been talking for a good while D1 about outing and lynching Jekyll. Strongman!Chaqa is so scared of Hyde that he doesn't trust town will do as they say, so he decides to take matters in his own hands and claim in the hopes of forcing the real Jekyll to cc, survive a 1v1 against him, and strongkill him that night. And this would be unlikely for Goon!Chaqa to do, because there was a risk that Jack would figure out that this was something that only a Goon would do, and so if he survived the D1 and D2 lynches after that gambit, then Jack would stab him N2? Is that what you were thinking?

- Scum team A is so weak that if they end up getting voted up, they could actually tell us which kills were theirs as to try to get Team B lynched. Team B could do that as well, if one of thiers is about to catch a lynch.

OK, this is the clarification of the sentence I couldn't parse. Reading it now knowing what you meant it is perfectly clear, so I don't know what confused me so much before.

[DemonRHK]

I wouldn’t say scum/strong chaqa was scared of the J/H role as much as it’s a play I could expect bored/random Strong/CHAQA to try. Especially if he saw Bob and scomething like computer as his scum buddies.

[yavuzovic]

I didn't say anything like GMs will reveal a proof. They will let me know if it's allowed and I will reveal a proof, where it explains something.

So, you didn't get a VT PM when you subbed in?

No, I was told to be VT on Discord. I asked Jamiet to sub in, on Discord, later he kept the conversation there. I didn't get a formal VT PM, instead I was just a VT. I won't increase SKs chance by revealing my gender, though.

[xorxes]

Ugh..

He gave a reasonable explanation for the trying to be town confusion, wouldn't you agree?

And sparing with ND would be more town indicative, I think. Or bold scum.

Nothing in that case is very convincing.

I think I will bail out. ##VOTE Chaqa

If he did give a reasonable explanation, I didn't understand it.

I rather not explain it myself for him, but I was satisfied enough with what he said.

How is sparing with ND (post lightning rod gambit) more town?

I think scum would be more shy of defying someone that they know is telling the truth.

Protecting Bob and being suspicious of Frost aren't good reasons?

Being suspicious of Frost is not particularly telling. Town are suspicious of town all the time. Protecting Bob is a good reason, if that's what he was doing.

I don't care about Chaq, so willing to hop over... is there more to his case than the fake-claim?

His explanations of what he was doing.

[xorxes]

I wouldn’t say scum/strong chaqa was scared of the J/H role as much as it’s a play I could expect bored/random Strong/CHAQA to try. Especially if he saw Bob and scomething like computer as his scum buddies.

But then why wouldn't Goon!Chaqa do the same in the same position?

[xorxes]

I didn't say anything like GMs will reveal a proof. They will let me know if it's allowed and I will reveal a proof, where it explains something.

So, you didn't get a VT PM when you subbed in?

No, I was told to be VT on Discord. I asked Jamiet to sub in, on Discord, later he kept the conversation there. I didn't get a formal VT PM, instead I was just a VT. I won't increase SKs chance by revealing my gender, though.

If this is true, then the Mystery of the VT Role Enquire is solved.

[BionicMole]

This is just a list of what happened. Some of the above is scummy, but not all of it. However, it is enough for a justified vote, especially considering who I'm townleaning.

This is an awfully reactive push back. Who said that scum gets angry instead of sad?

Bionic, with Bunny gone, I need a sounding board and reality check. Xorx's opinion registered with me, but want to hear what you think of my ISO. Does it show how weak a case against Cmder is?

He does have some good rebuttal on your reasoning and I was ok with his response to the "try to be town" wording after he rephrased it (hindsite is 20/20 after all but why didn't he say what he meant the first time) but another thing that stands out here is the "I may just be bad at town" defense. I don't even know what that means.
I would also tend to agree that the tone of the response should raise some red flags. I don't think a vote on Commander is horrible.

One more thing I forgot, him voting you after you vote him is a lame reason to place a vote so it doesn't seem like a genuine, voting for his best scumlean vote, which isn't very townie imo.

[xorxes]

These aren't good enough reasons imo.

"Shitty icebreaker" - I'm sorry what? This is illegal now?
"Suspicious of Frostwind" - Who wasn't?
"Kill ND and Chaqa" - Literally that was their idea. Yes I said this, but why you singling me out?
"Argument with Flav and Xorx" - So, I suppose you are coming at this assuming they are town? In that case sure, you can create the facts to fit the theory.
"I was trying my best to be town" - Why is this scummy? Please consider I may just be bad at town...
"Voting Flav because he's voting Yav" - I don't know where to begin here. I'm not allowed to vote *my* scumlean? You rather me vote everybody wagoning Yav? I only have one vote!
"Stayed on C.G. seemed to be protecting Bob" - This one is really creative. You said yourself I posted 4 times, and I was voting Computer_Genius and resisted the "musical wagons" game at EOD. Where does that logically equate to me actively protecting Bob? You sir are a crafty diplomat.
"Then turns around and questions Yav?" - umm I'm just doing my job here man. He literally said he's not-not town. Regardless, that doesn't logically invalidate my lean on Flavius. This is because Yav and Flavius may both be scum! We don't know!

This is just a list of what happened. Some of the above is scummy, but not all of it. However, it is enough for a justified vote, especially considering who I'm townleaning.

This is an awfully reactive push back. Who said that scum gets angry instead of sad?

Tom said that. Some of the answers do seem a bit angry, you are right about that. I don't know if it's always true that scum get angry and town get sad when being scumread. I don't think my own reaction as town when being scumread is sadness. It's either frustration (if I think the person scumreading me is town) or enjoyment (if I think they're scum).

[Jamiet99uk]

Vote Count 3.5

Chaqa(4) - Vecna, xorxes, BionicMole, rdrivera2005
yavuzovic(4) - bozotheclown, FlaviusAetius, Tom Bombadil, Temasek22
CmdrLikely(2) - KalelChase, DemonRHK
purplecow(1) - ND
bozotheclown(1) - purplecow
Tom Bombadil(1) - yavuzovic
KalelChase(1) - CmdrLikely
Temasek22(1) - ItsHosuke

Currently NOBODY is set to be lynched.

e.m.c^42 and kitsune must post and vote before phase ends.

Nine hours and 48 minutes remain in Day 3.

[dargorygel]

The last of my holiday activities today. I'll present tomorrow, hopefully. Sorry for my absence i lean town with chaqa, but with fear that he's playing us. I'll put my vote though on the rotation position of yavu.

All three players have felt fake
##vote yavuzovic

[xorxes]

So this is my moral dilemma:

I very much want to ask the GMs to confirm or deny that any substitute player will receive all the PMs sent to their predecessor.

If they say yes, yavu is lying and we lynch him.

If they say maybe not, then they're pretty much confirming yavu as a VT in a way that he shouldn't be confirmed (because let's be real, VT is the only role that would be carelessly informed in an informal manner).

So I won't be putting the GMs in an uncomfortable position by asking, but yavu's story *rings* true, and so I'm now sort of believing he is indeed a VT.

[yavuzovic]

GM told me that they won't be confirming anything.
But they can't deny this as well, if you ask.
I don't recommend to ask, that keeps GMs happier.

[yavuzovic]

Now what I feel is dargo is looking scummy.
##vote dargorygel
Now what I feel is I'm betraying who invited me to this game.

[yavuzovic]

I believe I explained enough and even too much about my role. After my bus trip I will be here before EoD. I'm planning to make some research on people, so I can join the scumhunt rather than defending myself.

[xorxes]

GM told me that they won't be confirming anything.
But they can't deny this as well, if you ask.
I don't recommend to ask, that keeps GMs happier.

So basically we have to decide between:

- GM was careless but they can't admit it without making things worse.
- GM was not careless and yavu is being borderline crafty.

Tough choice.

[dargorygel]

Have we ever known these GM s to be careless?

Got a little omgus going, yavu?