MAFIA 51 - LONDON BY GASLIGHT [HIDDEN]

[KalelChase]

Kalel, if you're still around, are you willing to provide more context behind your thoughts? For example, it's all and well to state "+1" for good participation or "-1" for noise or changing votes.

But that's near useless to many of us, unfortunately

As much as I'd like to profess mind reading capabilities, or extreme empathy and deduction skills, those are both lacking on my part. We can make all the assumptions we want, but that's all they are, in terms of "What do you think?". I'm no shining paragon in this regard either lol

Like, what do you mean by "good participation"? Why is it "good", compared to "bad". Why is something "intelligent". Is it due to considering a new point that is more likely to be town-motivated than scum? Is it due to bringing an incisive look to a loud and messy situation? And why do you consider it to be "-" or "+"?

Perhaps am just being slow on uptakes here, but really would appreciate it if you could elaborate :D

(Bungo I'm still typing up thoughts on xorx lmao, a lil' bit more time)

I've been told not to give too much away on my methodology, but since asked, and I'm still almost all methodology....

The 'Intelligent' part is very much still subjective depending on if I think they're actually making a point and/or challenging a preexisting point. If the post is vague, or a 'na na' post, or just a contradiction I view it negatively. Some of my judgement is just based on how much thought and work it looks like they put into it since I'm never sure if they're right or not.

I still maintain a bias against volume posters that aren't making points, or people that switch their votes around a lot... I think if you're giving input it should be worth opening your mouth (so to speak) for... this is the primary thing that turned me around on ND even before Chaq withdrew. At least his posts were consolidated making them easy to digest, and understand his perspective.

The other thing that's hard to quantify is the relationship piece. For example moving/starting a 2nd/3rd wagon with a weak justification seems like trying to save someone, but can only be weighted in hind-site.

The big add I've started considering this game is past metas. This is why I'm so confused on Bunny... he started off completely different than in the past, but changed 'upon request'. I give him a break on the volume because I find his posts so helpful.

I hope that helps. In both other games I was scumread at at least one point, so I'm pretty used to it, but I'd like to get past just re posting a synopsis and really get into some detective work like the rest of you do.

[KalelChase]

And Kalel, lack of elaboration is what I am suffering from greatly in own posts as well lol

Also, microfiction was nice :D

Continuations? Snippets?

Appreciated.... 250 words or less is called microfiction. I've totaly screwed up NaNoWrMo this month. I put way to much on my plate.

Since you're on here was my first one that got me into round two. Assignment: Ghost Story, Ice Skating, Expert (250 words or less).

Katabasis
Mastema stared out from darkness at her censured soul. The summoned specter, skating, she was still unaware of him. He had suffered to create the ice she now flew over so angelically. He cackled quietly at the comparison. He relished the fluid way she moved, gliding on the skates that were his last kindness.

He stalked forward, savoring the diminishing distance between his twisted body and her still radiant visage. Finally, he was close enough to her that he could almost taste her essence.

She wouldn’t recognize him in this form. Their last encounter, when he had come to her world disguised, had ended dripping with sarcasm, “Sure, I’d date you… when hell freezes over!”. This time would be different, he was no longer asking.

He hadn’t wanted to abet her demise. Some in his circles would consider it cheating, but he was no expert at love, only death. And he wanted her just like this… her image frozen, and in her prime. He wouldn’t let Time take her beauty away, not even one more days’ worth. So, he just pulled the trigger. Now that she was dead, she could no longer haunt him.

It didn’t matter if building the rink or giving her the skates would change her mind and make her love him. Now, she was now where Mastema was the master. Now, he had all the time in the world to be with her. Now, he stepped out on the ice to take her at last.

[KalelChase]

The most accurate thing I saw is that I have lots of noise in my posts (SURE DO!)

e.m.c has a lot of posts too. Back to my signal to noise bias.

In M49 I came out social and turned into a Village Idiot. I hope I'm not getting to comfortable and doing it again. I got a lot of advice the last two games, but the best one was from someone who reminded me that even if I die I win if town wins, so I'm getting less cautious.

Signing off for tonight. Much of my personal stuff is over, so I'll be trying to help out more.

[e.m.c^42]

Going back on-topic. xorxes would try to be useful. For this game, it would actually be much easier to blend in with town. So, more genuine scumhunting, ez. There's no way he wouldn't be doing decently (or at least trying) as a town leader as scum, he's got the reputation and skill to pull it off quite nicely.

but this sorta falls apart when you realise, despite the opportunity, scum!xorxes is usually lower in thoughtful content, on the quiet side, and more "settled down", for lack of better word. Personality thing, like how I can't play scum without trying to taunt subtly, lol

[e.m.c^42]

....there is much more, but it leads into wifom shit that no one wants to read, so it will end here. I will bring it up if questioned :v

[e.m.c^42]

Ah fuck

I'm going to utterly spam the thread if I do this for everyone else, as done with xorx lol

[e.m.c^42]

and not even fun tasty chipotle fiction spam, too

[e.m.c^42]

Aha Kalel has a long response. Let's reply to it

[Vecna]

Are you town Bunny?? I just don’t know what to make of you. My heart says town. My brain says town. But my gut says something is fishy about you

I mean, I'm not going to answer that; that would be telling. But I sure did get lynched as town in my first game (49) for playing similarly to this. I learned then not to claim. I also learned to crumb better than I did then (anyone remember me spelling TOWN with the first letters of my random sentences? How useful was that?!)

There sure is something fishy about me, but it is just that I'm really clever, and really dumb at the same time. And it comes up in weird ways.

Also, I'm not really good at any of this, but I'm really good at pointing out when people are being stupid; so it seems like I'm good at deducing things.

But mostly...I don't know how the hell town are supposed to win this game. We've gained a *HUGE* respite because of ND. And we (well, the rest of town, I didn't really help with that) got Moriarty day 1. We're still behind, IMHO.

Now, how about you? Are you town??

Dont worry man, bad guys are soon gonna start killing and knifing eachother

[damo666]

@Xorxes it was 'think about it' not 'trust me'

Merely misremembered in a bit of rush. It's not significant.

Yep. But why did you feel you had to sort of apologize for it?

It was more a qualification than an apology. Tom had been asking about it so I thought I'd explain. As I said before it's no big deal.

[Vecna]

Another intense weekend for me, so my play will probably be reduced the coming few days (if I survive the night).

[xorxes]

@kalel and xorxes. I think you're both simply wrong about these things.

It's just one thing you said that I'm not sure how to explain why you would say it with the info you had as town. Instead of telling me that I'm wrong, you could just explain why you said what you said ("I was drunk" doesn't count, because it's something very specific).

[damo666]

@Vecna

Cuno?

[xorxes]

I still honestly don't see it, Xorxes. Who should scum target? PRs if they know them. Otherwise, probably "good" players who say they know stuff but aren't sharing yet. Sounds about right to me. If you think that's not a priority target, then we play scum very differently.

Why should scum have had ND as their only identified PR though? And what did you mean by doctors being already busy with something else?

[damo666]

@kalel and xorxes. I think you're both simply wrong about these things.

It's just one thing you said that I'm not sure how to explain why you would say it with the info you had as town. Instead of telling me that I'm wrong, you could just explain why you said what you said ("I was drunk" doesn't count, because it's something very specific).

I don't get why it is particularly scummy or odd.

[xorxes]

I don't quite see what is wrong yet with Bungo's phrasing that Kalel and xorx picked at, it seems to be just presumption? Or at least, more assuming!town/3p than scum indicative.

Where did Kalel pick at any phrasing of Bunny's? I must have missed that.

None offense meant to our GM, but that type of phrase/syntax picking (remember Vapor?) is more of something that Jamie pulls as anal retentive scum lol

However, it does have its uses occasionally, and have done near exact same thing this game lmao

It has nothing to do with the syntax though, it's about the content of what he said.

[xorxes]

(Bungo I'm still typing up thoughts on xorx lmao, a lil' bit more time)

No worries, I keep getting stuck when trying it too. Xorxes is hard. Last game I only ID'd him when I was drunk and picked up on something ephemeral. No analysis was able to pick up on that except he kept dropping logical possibilities (which seemed unlike him)

Dropping logical possibilities is somethinhg I do both as town and as scum. It may very well be that I do it more as scum, but I doubt it. The problem is not that someone does that, the problem would be if that's the only thing they do.

[xorxes]

but

I feel like I'm restating what others said in-thread already lmao

he's not spicy, or even being lynch-advocator. Look at that vote on Frost, and that last minute voting switch on Day One. Being indecisive and overall an insecure person is my thing. Not deciding on an actual vote or read until the last 20-30 minutes of EOD is my thing.

I had decided my vote would end on Computer until you tied it and forced me to decide between Bob and Vapor. I had nothing very strong against either of them. It wasn't my indecision that caused my late vote, it was yours.

[xorxes]

Xorxes is not someone who usually will go "Oh god, wording slip, SCUM!". Again, that's one of the skins belonging to scum!Jamie. So why was that the basis of the majority of his scumreads on Day 2?

Not completely true. I called damo scum in one game because he used the same word to describe bozo that I had used as scum the game before (I don't remember the exact details anymore). It turned out I was right that damo was scum, but wrong about damo just copying me (at least that's what damo says, and there's no reason to doubt him) but a lot of people to this day keep repeating that I caught damo doing something he did not in fact do (ask damo, he doesn't like it when people bring that up).

As for this game, wrong also, I have yet to call anyone scum. I just found some minor pointers that may or may not end up mean anything. (I was right about what I pointed out about Bob though, so at least you will grant me that I'm most likely not on Moriarty's team?)

And here's the thing. He's well self-aware enough to realise that this would come off as scummy, as well as the fact that he has little to no townreads, when he usually has them rather explicitly stated by this time. He also is not the type of person to play meta-switching wifom games like that, by getting towncred from getting scumread.

We can't have townreads in this game. Everyone is (or at least should and could be) scumhunting, so towny behavior is not necessarily town indicative. I have seen lots of towny behavior, which could still easily come from one scumteam hunting the other.

So as scum, you'd be damn certain he'd try to make himself seem useful, most likely by focusing on one of his stronger and NAI suits, mechs, as it requires the least amount of deception. He's pretty good at them, it's like bozo with a more consistent focus and analysis result lmao. It's not unusual or out-of-left-field to expect a genius scheme that wins the game. this has nothing to do with reads and more to do with being a fan who likes spewing awe, so ignore it lol

If there's a way I can see to win by mechanics, I will certainly try to exploit it.

[xorxes]

And these are "reads" in the same sense of my own reads.

To elaborate on this, forgot to type the rest. "Reads" as in that it was implied or otherwise stated subtly, through commenting on the actions or questioning. Not much explicitly stated.

This is a very good observation. I have avoided calling anyone town or scum explicitly in this game, although I had not noticed it consciously until you pointed it out. The reason is that I have not found yet anything strong enough to call anyone scum, and the mechanics prevents calling anyone town with any certainty.