MAFIA 49 -Avengers "Re-release"- GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[KalelChase]

You a programmer Kalel?

More of a process optimizer/AI automater, but some of the same principles.

AI automater? You train neural nets?

Very purpose dedicated AI. But I don't want to derail or inject more noise. We can talk more off-line post-game if you're interested.

[BunnyGo]

OK, my Neph case incoming. The tldr:

He's said from the start he values people teaching noobs.

He's tried to teach noobs, and done it by example.

He's focused hard on Vapor lately (and done an interesting dive)

He was thoughtful and consistent in votes (and jumped hard on people who were not) through the whole game.

All in all, solidifies my town lean.

Relevant links coming.

[BunnyGo]

Sooooo....Care to provide an example for me of your own dives? An ISO some analysis of EOD2? Something? Anything interesting?

You want me, to show examples of my analysis? Are you reading the thread?

My case on Vapor

Kalel Pt 1

Kalel pt 2

The Maniac Case

The logical consistency of D1 votes

A few examples.

Please read before you start to point fingers.

Thanks...sorry for talking without looking. Was just doing a dive myself.

[BunnyGo]

neph, who in particular was toxic and egotistical that ruined your experience.

The culture of webdip mafia is that this is a challenging place to play with people who care a lot about furthering their skills at the game

I find Jamie and Durga to be the top of my list with regards to ego etc. I get this is a game where manipulation plays a large role although I just severely disagree with the extent to which players take it. For example, damo gets endlessly so much more shit than he deserve's to the point where it is nearly abusive (esp when he was probs the best town imo from last game)

I've honestly found, of the existing players when I joined, only you, Squigs and CJG were particularly welcoming and really showed any sort of interest in diversifying the player base.

I find the culture here to be purely individualistic, there is no desire to bring in new players and provide any assistance to bettering the community as a whole.

His first post above

Okay thank you.

I suspect that was in between the lines, but not an implication I caught.

Is there a risk that if too many people give their scum reads early the scum will know who to target before the second round of voting?

From my seat your argument is the stronger - more information on opinions and views generally being better than less. But Nepthys has played a lot of games so I’d like to hear their views too.

(1) The more you do things and the more you ask of people the less people are willing to participate.
(2) Most thoughts here are pure conjecture and there's nothing to really go on (as opposed to later), later there is more and everything has meaning. Also putting more emphasis on reads now exemplifies the webdip meta of looking at meta. This is bad and why town tends to lose in recent games if mechanics don't fall their way.
(3) I think its coming from a scum perspective therefore bozo thinks he can get benefit, he's likely just going for towncred but in case there is something that he's thought of, I'm more hesistant to join in.
(4) If he actually cared about people's reads they aren't hard to find, I very recently published an entire read list, why couldn't he go and find it there. This indicates to me that he may not actually be that worried about the outcome. Again this would fit well with a scum presenting this for towncred.

It was stuff like the following that made me worry he was pocketing me. But I think in context he's just honestly trying to get people to make reads and make them thoughtfully:

What about it specifically?

I agree with him about some of the people he mentioned (not you), but I gave reasons above for my thoughts. His posts are all shaped like this. And I don't see any "puzzle solving" coming. Just distraction under the guise of identifying people.

True, although in his defense I will say the use of the top scumreads is solid and has bought excellent success in the past so don't discount that strategy. I agree with most of the rest of your statements though.

What reads do you agree with?

##VOTE BOZO

His latest post tipped the balance for me.

What about it specifically?

Then jumps all over Kalel for lazy moves, completely inconsistent thought lines. Almost as if nothing Kalel has typed was actually considered. Just typed to type it up:

Day the Second

The first thing that reaaaaaaaaally pings me is this shocker

I don't think I said... Vision should consider espresso, rdrivera, brain, and xorxes... maybe maniac...
Not just for suspicion's sake. I mean, the reveal could be a clear as well as a scum. And a lot of the discussions would find resolution in any of those reveals.

I'd back you up on this, but narrow down to the more grey persons...
rdrivera, and xorxes... maybe maniac...

More grey??? Boi you just listed Rdr as one of your most trusted people. Get some consistency bro.

He then just straight up stops scumhunting

Looks like no ones on.

Honestly, I can't take the noise and the chaos, and more than halfway convinced he's SK.

##VOTE Brainbomb

Please, at least try.

Then he comes in to dissect Brains (excellent) dissection of the bozo wagon. (honestly those brain posts are the best of the game, perhaps also he was my top town read). In this large post he also states that he liked a scumlist I provided minus his positioning, then turns around and calls me scum. Logical inconsistency number ??? (I stopped counting at 500).

His post about bozos list is completely useless. It's honestly not that useful to dissect looking at who's accurate due to possible bussing and that is was D1 (hence why we should have waited).

His final post pings me as well. Its laden with reasons to shift his vote if he needs

Edited to correct formatting

I didn't understand this post. Says "yuuki ain't scum" but is "top 3 scum reads"?

Quick Yuuki ISO

Man aint scum.

He does what he always does poking people for things and as usual I find his play overly whelming.

He's in my top 3 SK reads though easy.

But Neph backed it up with his vote on Vapor/Maniac or finishing on Kalel.

More not liking Maniac for inconsistencies, just like Kalel. He's calling people out for writing without actual intent.

Maniac and the missing Bunny

This tale starts off as many wondrous epics do, a misunderstanding.

Maniac slams Bunny for missing to bot link within the first 10 posts. Honestly, fair enough, he eventually drops it more or less.

However! We come to Maniac's first read list. What do we find here? Nothing other than a town read for our lovely Bunny.

BunnyGo - town

Skip forward to his most recent read list.

BunnyGo – I had him as scum early doors. But now I’m not so sure. His Bozo vote seemed genuine. Not sure if he liked my xorxes case to curry favour with me and the case painted him in a better light.

We see he says that he had Bunny as scum early (True). He does however, forget that he had a townread on Bunny. Instead he casts suspicion on him saying that he isnt sure.

Now, this is hardly a reason to lynch him in and of itself but it certainly indicates that his read lists could all be conscious choices rather than actual reads

The following is his thoughtful deep dive on vapor. All clipped for space.

The great wall of Vapor.

This post is likely to be long so most quotes will be abridged.

Please consider Vapor very strongly for the lynch tomorow.

And finally +100 points for Neph here:

Can someone please explain why the fuck everyone is searching for the SK?

You search for scum, eliminate them then focus on SK. We need to find at least one scum first ffs.

Theres a decent chance that scum will randomly hit them as well. That means scum will likely reveal who the SK is so they can have a chance at winning.

All tis SK searching is sooooo anti-town

[BunnyGo]

How about you Kit, were you doing a dive on Neph also?

[Foxcastle]

How about you Kit, were you doing a dive on Neph also?

Do you think Neph is scum or town, BunnyGo?

[BunnyGo]

How about you Kit, were you doing a dive on Neph also?

Do you think Neph is scum or town, BunnyGo?

Did I stutter?

Town.

[Foxcastle]

I reread Sulit, Kitsune, Maniac, Neph, and Damo per quinque.

Kinda wishing I'd swapped Foodcoats in for Damo.

[Foxcastle]

How about you Kit, were you doing a dive on Neph also?

Do you think Neph is scum or town, BunnyGo?

Did I stutter?

Town.

Yikes, sorry I missed it. Hiss hiss...

If Kitsune is scum, what do you think his dive on town-Neph would look like?

[Foxcastle]

Maybe, as usual, I simply have it backwards.

##VOTE BUNNYGO

[Nephthys]

Do you think Neph is scum or town, BunnyGo?

Did I stutter?

Town.

Yikes, sorry I missed it. Hiss hiss...

If Kitsune is scum, what do you think his dive on town-Neph would look like?

Dont answer this until after Kit posts if he does. Otherwise its exactly coaching

[Nephthys]

@fox, thoughts on Vapor and his wagon?

I note that you have avoided mentioning him AT ALL this entire game so far.

[Foxcastle]

Did I stutter?

Town.

Yikes, sorry I missed it. Hiss hiss...

If Kitsune is scum, what do you think his dive on town-Neph would look like?

Dont answer this until after Kit posts if he does. Otherwise its exactly coaching

No. It's not coaching. Please, you know that's not what that term means.

It certainly would be influence, though. But that's the point. I want to see Kitsune's deepdive of Neph after BunnyGo predicts what it looks like. I think the glimpses provided by that kind of setup could be telling.

[Kitsune]

How about you Kit, were you doing a dive on Neph also?

He's in my Towncore from here: viewtopic.php?p=106388#p106388

Trust his reads as well as his motivation.

I'll do a dive when I have time, but I spent ages trawling through people's posts to get those reads so I'm not keen on repeating it until I have more to work with.

[Kitsune]

Did I stutter?

Town.

Yikes, sorry I missed it. Hiss hiss...

If Kitsune is scum, what do you think his dive on town-Neph would look like?

Dont answer this until after Kit posts if he does. Otherwise its exactly coaching

Still ignoring Fox's distractions.

But if you feel it would be valuable for my to try out my deep dive chops, sure I can give it a try.

[Nephthys]

Yikes, sorry I missed it. Hiss hiss...

If Kitsune is scum, what do you think his dive on town-Neph would look like?

Dont answer this until after Kit posts if he does. Otherwise its exactly coaching

No. It's not coaching. Please, you know that's not what that term means.

It certainly would be influence, though. But that's the point. I want to see Kitsune's deepdive of Neph after BunnyGo predicts what it looks like. I think the glimpses provided by that kind of setup could be telling.

1. This post is written from the perspective that Kit is scum.
2. If I tell you what not to do (to look like scum) then I'm indirectly telling you what to do i.e. coaching.
3. Either way has its benefits, on consideration I will actually side with your opinion that Bunny should go first.

[Foxcastle]

@fox, thoughts on Vapor and his wagon?

I note that you have avoided mentioning him AT ALL this entire game so far.

This is patently false. I have typed his name twice, and quoted other people mentioning him twice. You and your vicious lies, Neph!

He came in looking like he was doing scumbo hokey-pokey. I mostly decided that no actual scum would do that and have written him off. Not shocking that some of my top suspects (you, Maniac, Dargo) are on him.

[Foxcastle]

Yikes, sorry I missed it. Hiss hiss...

If Kitsune is scum, what do you think his dive on town-Neph would look like?

Dont answer this until after Kit posts if he does. Otherwise its exactly coaching

Still ignoring Fox's distractions.

But if you feel it would be valuable for my to try out my deep dive chops, sure I can give it a try.

LOL: The scum-student begs his scum-masters indulgence.

[Nephthys]

@fox, thoughts on Vapor and his wagon?

I note that you have avoided mentioning him AT ALL this entire game so far.

This is patently false. I have typed his name twice, and quoted other people mentioning him twice. You and your vicious lies, Neph!

He came in looking like he was doing scumbo hokey-pokey. I mostly decided that no actual scum would do that and have written him off. Not shocking that some of my top suspects (you, Maniac, Dargo) are on him.

You have typed his name twice. One was an example that had nothing to do with him and the other was you targeting Chaqa for not having a good reason to vote him.

You have quoted other people mentioning him exactly 4 times.
1. You discuss whether scum would give themselves away by piling onto the Vapor wagon (Not engaging with Vapor)
2. I mention him asking EP to analyse his wagon (Not engaging with Vapor)
3. You quote the bozo survey and claim Jamie isn't voting you cause you're a scumread, this has objectively nothing to do with Vapor
4.You just quoted me, and dodged the question I might add

[Nephthys]

@fox, thoughts on Vapor and his wagon?

I note that you have avoided mentioning him AT ALL this entire game so far.

This is patently false. I have typed his name twice, and quoted other people mentioning him twice. You and your vicious lies, Neph!

He came in looking like he was doing scumbo hokey-pokey. I mostly decided that no actual scum would do that and have written him off. Not shocking that some of my top suspects (you, Maniac, Dargo) are on him.

You have typed his name twice. One was an example that had nothing to do with him and the other was you targeting Chaqa for not having a good reason to vote him.

You have quoted other people mentioning him exactly 4 times.
1. You discuss whether scum would give themselves away by piling onto the Vapor wagon (Not engaging with Vapor)
2. I mention him asking EP to analyse his wagon (Not engaging with Vapor)
3. You quote the bozo survey and claim Jamie isn't voting you cause you're a scumread, this has objectively nothing to do with Vapor
4.You just quoted me, and dodged the question I might add

@Fox, my question stands