MAFIA 49 -Avengers "Re-release"- GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[rdrivera2005]

Getting town vibes from xorx, emc and brain. While getting scum vibes from Vapor (I hope I'm not OMGUSsing) and Kitsune

Whatever... ##Vote Kitsune

@temasek
Can you give us something more here? You were phenomenal in the last game... analytical and involved. Why Kitsune? Why townie vibes from xorxes, emc, and brain? What's your foundation for vape and Kits?

Really? I remember him being obvious scum with Hosuke....
Anyway, not getting scum vibes from him this game.

[rdrivera2005]

I thought of all the people looking most like serial killer it was foxcastle so far.

maybe we should do our reads in a new format.
LG lawful good (Fundamentally adheres to all customs)
LN lawful neutral (Fundamentally confused)
LE Lawful evil (Fundamentally Evil)
NG neutral good (Passively Good
T True Neutral (Null)
NE Neutral Evil (Passively Evil)
CG Chaotic good (Wild town)
CN Chaotic Neutral (Wild something)
CE Chaotic Evil (Wild scum)


LE bozotheclown
CG brainbomb
CN BunnyGo
NG Chaqa
CG damo666
LG dargo
LG e.m.c^42
LE EspressoPatronum
CE foodcoats
NE Foxcastle
LN Jamiet99uk
CN KalelChase
NG Kitsune
CN Maniac
LE ND
T Nephthys
NG rdrivera2005
LE Temasek22
CN Vaporwave
CE worcej
NG xorxes
T Yuuki

I really like this, even if I disagree on some (Temasek and Kalel for example). Tomorrow if I have time will try to do one of those.

[rdrivera2005]

@rdr, thoughts on the EP wagon?

I like it. I think I said before he isn't giving me towny vibes. Don't see the need to cast another vote on him now.

[rdrivera2005]

would it be wrong to suddenly include Neph in towncore? I think there's bite to his posts, but not so hard that it would create a wound. He was over the top in Gladiators, but now there's equilibrium when he delivers opinions

or maybe I'm just too easy to please? thing is I only wanna chose 1 tinfoil between rdr/Neph and I would rather lean on Neph more confidently, feels less threatening than rivera

...what to do what to do? I'll say tentative town read

Why am I threatening?

[xorxes]

Second - it seems in this kind of game the VTs have to act quickly or the Scum (who know who everyone is?) can just start picking us off. Maybe that doesn't apply to D1.

Would be interested in hearing why those two tactics are completely off - I intend to learn as much about playing this as I can before getting axed.

Thanks for asking.

What do you mean by "act quickly"?

[rdrivera2005]

Neph's proposal removes neutrals and forces us to include any slight scumlean, I'm not up for that, people are prone to OMGUS and I've already had too many votes

I'm only mentioning my strong scumbums.

It also forces scum to be decisive. For scum, every read, to some degree, is a decision "do I want this person to be a scum/town read?" Therefore, by removing all nulls, it forces them to make more decisions. The more decisions scum make, the easier they are to catch. This is why scum tend to be lower in posts that many town. Its harder by definition to go high posting scum and do well

Agree, one of the hardest things as scum is to do credible realists early, when you supposedly don't have much info but have to fake to be trying to solve. Funny thing, I usually get bashed about my readlists when I am town as I am a lot more lazy and just speak my mind.

[rdrivera2005]

I would like to try something that showed promising results in M47 and have everyone list 4 players they think are the most likely to be scum. You do not have to give reasons, and ignore the SK for now. I will start: Vapor, emc, rdrivera, Nephthys.

##Vote bozo

This was useful yes and I intended to bring it up when relevant. This was also used to success last game although both times the game has progressed significantly than it currently has. There is little point in doing it now and it is the definition of content for the sake of content

I can always join a bozo lynch.

##vote Bozo

[BunnyGo]

OK, so...last night brainbomb messaged me at a really bad time and I responded badly (sick and kids bedtime was awful). But then while reading the thread I decided: I have no fucking clue the norms and inside meanings of everything people were saying in the opening comments. I also have no clue how the game changes when scum know who each other are in D1 AND CAN TALK TO EACH OTHER OFFLINE. This is soooo different than the game I normally play, I realized I couldn't approach it the same.

So I made a decision to go with my insane first posts, and just try to put people off, and see if I was able to get a read on anything that way. Since it's easier to play a game within the normal structure than within a very abnormal one. Who knows if this was completely stupid (it may be) but I went with it.

So, with that said, I really like the alignment valuation of people brainbomb suggested. Here's my current thoughts:

e.m.c^42 = NE Reason: very few posts. Spotted him lurking a few times (I think, I'm not 100% on how the forum works) But his posts were mostly insipid, uninspired, and (I thought) distracting

brainbomb = Either LG or LE. He's doing a great job keeping the hunt on track. He's mostly clear, concise, and on point. The problem is, I worry that it's how I would play scum: try to steer the conversation and keep the hunt going well...but the well you want. So either a very helpful town, or a very insidious scum.

Kitsune = LS (lawful stupid) He's pulling off the clueless noob well. I think he's possibly town.

BunnyGo = CG. I'll admit it, I was insane.

damo666 = T. I don't have a good read. Just a few posts. Got in early. Said almost nothing except about his relationship to players in the past games. It actually really put me off. But he could just be busy, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's scum trying to not appear to be lurking, but really saying nothing at all early and then disappearing.

dargo = LG. I see good faith efforts to try and keep things on point (after some first posts). He didn't like my breaches of etiquette (which were accidental there), but was clear about explaining them and trying to get the town to get intel.

bozo = LE. He's not posting much. He's taunting. He's just voting with no clear reason. And he seems to be trying to rile up the crowd without letting people focus or think.

Chaqa = T. Hasn't posted much yet. His comments suggest he's getting to it, and there's a lot to read through. This is either a way to just ghost while saying encouraging things, or he's been busy and he'll get to it. No real judgement yet.

Espresso = NG. I don't want to go against the crowd too much, but I just don't understand why a lot of people are jumping on him. His rating post didn't seem so off too me, but I could easily be wrong. Yet I think they're wrong.

food = CN. voting for lots of people like it's going out of style. No reason at all given for many of the votes (let alone stupid reasons). But then later started to post something of content. I don't know him well, but he seems like a bomb thrower trying to distract and make a lot of noise.

foxcastle = NG. Not posting a lot yet, but I think he responded well to me--was inquisitive about figuring stuff out. I think he's mostly been on point with the investigation and calling out chaotic elements.

jamie = LN. Not sure if he's town or scum or what, but he's definitely pissed about all the chaotic shit I was doing (some intentional, some not). He was good about explaining it though, and seemed to care about the reasons to get people to respond to get intel. I lean towards town with him, but so many of his posts were meaningless drivel about past games that it was hard to wade through that to actual content when he started posting that.

Kalel = NE. He's no voice of G-d. His posts scream "I'm trying to not appear like scum, but I want townies to lynch randomly--I'll also make a lot of meaningless posts while commenting that I'm no longer lurking while doing this meaningless stuff. LOOK OVER THERE!!"

Maniac = LN. He seems to care quite a bit about the decorum, boy was he pissed at me; then again I was taking a lot of pointless shots at him. I town-lean him, but not enough to move him to LG. The main issue was that all his stated reads about me or others were too formulaic for me. Things like "are you trying to make this easy" and whatnot. It was almost like going through paces as opposed to actually trying to figure things out.

ND = CN. I mean, it's either badly done flavor text, or faux angry comments at chaqa for being pissed about his crappy flavor text. There's no there there.

Nephthys = LG. He doesn't really explain his thoughts much, but it seems he's trying and I agree with many of his reads. He also was willing to put up with me, comment on it, but then go back to the issue of the game. I liked that.

rdrivera = CN. He commented positively on the shit I was doing. But he was coaching some new players, and I'm not sure which way that goes. He did seem to be trying to think out loud at times, but I didn't see many explanations...mostly arguments, feelings, and jokes.

Temasek = LN. I'm not too sure about his vibe. But he seems to be targeting noobs. He's mostly riding on ingrained mores and norms, so it's hard for me to say much besides L.

Vaporwave = T. He changes his vote a lot. Seems to reference old play styles a lot. He votes for people with no comment. He seems to try and read the noobs, but the whole thing is so convoluted, I can't tell if he's just bomb throwing, or if he has an actual plan.

worcej = LG. I think he's trying. I think he didn't put up with shit from anyone, myself included. But tried to make honest reads and kept bringing the conversation back to the point of talking and figuring out the puzzle.

xorxes = LG. Lots of posts. Wants the "rules" followed. Kept bringing the conversation back to how things should be done, and what was being said and conclusions that should be drawn.

Yuuki = No posts....


I'll try to be less of a jerk now. But I expect to fail and still be quite a jerk. I'm charming like that.

[Kitsune]

Since we're doing alignments and I'm happily onboard for this (and just surfaced from delving through the pages again):

NE bozotheclown
CG brainbomb
CE BunnyGo – admittedly may be elements of OMGUS here, though trying to compensate
NG Chaqa
CG damo666
LG dargorygel
T e.m.c^42
NE EspressoPatronum
LG foodcoats
NE Foxcastle
CN Jamiet99uk
CG KalelChase
NG Kitsune
NE Maniac
LN ND
LG Nephthys
NG rdrivera2005
LE Temasek22
CG Vaporwave
CE worcej
NG xorxes
T Yuuki

(Thanks go to whoever - brain I think? - linked me to the mafia wiki. I knew where to go to find out who this OMGUS was everyone was discussing)

[BunnyGo]

##VOTE BOZO

His latest post tipped the balance for me.

[BunnyGo]

@kitsune

I thought you'd recognize how I play games better than that. Are you not following the backstabbr match closely?

[Nephthys]

##VOTE BOZO

His latest post tipped the balance for me.

What about it specifically?

[BunnyGo]

##VOTE BOZO

His latest post tipped the balance for me.

What about it specifically?

It continued his chaotic "no content, but let's all shout at each other" posts. He gave no reasons for his targets. He gave no reason for his exercise. He just shows up randomly, throws a bomb, and runs away.

[Kitsune]

@kitsune

I thought you'd recognize how I play games better than that. Are you not following the backstabbr match closely?

Actually I'm drowning here. I'm watching the roles and making sure all the orders get in, but between that, this mafia thing, three active Dip games and something I'm doing with Brain and Ike (and certain RL commitments that tend to dominate my days) I haven't had the chance to follow your press.

So no, while it's flattering that you find me organised in running that part of the tournament I haven't been following your playstyle since the game kicked off :)

[BunnyGo]

##VOTE BOZO

His latest post tipped the balance for me.

What about it specifically?

I agree with him about some of the people he mentioned (not you), but I gave reasons above for my thoughts. His posts are all shaped like this. And I don't see any "puzzle solving" coming. Just distraction under the guise of identifying people.

[Nephthys]

##VOTE BOZO

His latest post tipped the balance for me.

What about it specifically?

I agree with him about some of the people he mentioned (not you), but I gave reasons above for my thoughts. His posts are all shaped like this. And I don't see any "puzzle solving" coming. Just distraction under the guise of identifying people.

True, although in his defense I will say the use of the top scumreads is solid and has bought excellent success in the past so don't discount that strategy. I agree with most of the rest of your statements though.

What reads do you agree with?

[BunnyGo]

What about it specifically?

I agree with him about some of the people he mentioned (not you), but I gave reasons above for my thoughts. His posts are all shaped like this. And I don't see any "puzzle solving" coming. Just distraction under the guise of identifying people.

True, although in his defense I will say the use of the top scumreads is solid and has bought excellent success in the past so don't discount that strategy. I agree with most of the rest of your statements though.

What reads do you agree with?

I'll direct you to my whole post above for my current thoughts. But the 3 I most lean scum are e.m.c, Kalel, and bozo. I'm also not sure about brain (he's either very helpful town, or very insidious scum). Lot's of others I'm not sure about.

[Kitsune]

@BunnyGo

I recognise you may be being confrontational to agitate a reaction out of people (Umble is doing this in one of my Dip games, which gave me a much closer look at the technique than I really wanted) but in terms of alignment it just struck me as needlessly confusing and definitely wild.

In the second sense I decided you were Evil (ish - you're definitely not LE) because it felt like you were saying a lot of things (latest list posts excepted) that were all content and no meaning, trying to blend into the crowd.

On the other hand if I'd been posting that now instead of 30-40 minutes ago, I'd probably rate you as CN. So I like what you're doing now, even if I didn't enjoy being on the receiving end of it.

[foodcoats]

I would like to try something that showed promising results in M47 and have everyone list 4 players they think are the most likely to be scum. You do not have to give reasons, and ignore the SK for now. I will start: Vapor, emc, rdrivera, Nephthys.

##Vote bozo

This was useful yes and I intended to bring it up when relevant. This was also used to success last game although both times the game has progressed significantly than it currently has. There is little point in doing it now and it is the definition of content for the sake of content

Yikes that wording was sloppy

- Yes its useful
- Its only useful later
- Bringing it up now is terrible play

This seems in stark contradiction to your earlier complaint that webdipmaf is toxic egotistical and uncooperative. I need to update my reads in the morning but I’m on team bozo regarding this strategy. Why do you think it is bad play? What is better play?

[KalelChase]

Second - it seems in this kind of game the VTs have to act quickly or the Scum (who know who everyone is?) can just start picking us off. Maybe that doesn't apply to D1.

Would be interested in hearing why those two tactics are completely off - I intend to learn as much about playing this as I can before getting axed.

Thanks for asking.

What do you mean by "act quickly"?

What I meant by that (and what I read) is that if the VTs aren't active then the Scum can just pick them off since the Scum know who they are, they also know who the VTs are (I'm correct here, yes?). So the ticking clock is against the VTs. But I'm seeing the danger in the VTs proceeding with 'knee-jerk' lynchings and that this game is much more nuanced than I thought it would be.
So, I've learned (has this only been going on 16 hours?) that this isn't the case.

I also came in here thinking that I would play a good game and get to know some (famous) names I've seen playing Dip and on forums. I mistakenly thought that I could come in and show my personality and playing the game, and that these were separate things. What I think I've learned is this game is all about personality (and posture, and tone, and... subtext).

It's been a fascinating start for me.

@Bunny, I am certainly no Voice of God. I do prefer the 'Star-Child' interpretation of Kal-el which is more in-line with the Kryptonian myth. At the moment I am much more a fan of the MCU than anything DC has put out.