MAFIA 49 -Avengers "Re-release"- GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[worcej]

I really don't understand the votes on worcej.

I have explained why I am voting for Worcej. Did you fail to notice my explanation, or did you read it but find yourself unable to understand it?

I also read what Bunny said and made a face.

The two votes on me had nothing to do with my meta reads.

[xorxes]

Don't worry, I'll figure out how to come in and screw up our chances to win only to suddenly do right and get us the win.

Are you implying Vapor is your teammate?

Was this a serious question, xorxes?

Why wouldn't it be? Or why would you doubt it was serious?

[worcej]

Maybe I should build a spreadsheet...

Ha! I love the spreadsheets that never see the light of day to contribute towards anything in these games

[Chaqa]

27 goddamn pages... alright I’m caught up but I definitely skimmed a bit. Some things that stick in my mind:

- Vapor claiming VT = bad
- xorxes and Jamiet seem very town
- I missed brain
- ND = bad because I hate when people play “roles” like Vecna does
- KalEl joking too much is scummy

##Vote ND for now

[xorxes]

27 goddamn pages... alright I’m caught up but I definitely skimmed a bit. Some things that stick in my mind:

- Vapor claiming VT = bad
- xorxes and Jamiet seem very town
- I missed brain
- ND = bad because I hate when people play “roles” like Vecna does
- KalEl joking too much is scummy

##Vote ND for now

Yikes. Weren't you a fan of Vecna's shenanigans, or am I completely misremembering?

I can easily see ND as scum here, but he just hasn't done enough for me to tell one way or the other.

[BunnyGo]

27 goddamn pages... alright I’m caught up but I definitely skimmed a bit. Some things that stick in my mind:

- Vapor claiming VT = bad
- xorxes and Jamiet seem very town
- I missed brain
- ND = bad because I hate when people play “roles” like Vecna does
- KalEl joking too much is scummy

##Vote ND for now

This makes sense to me.

[worcej]

the reason I thought he was softing as hulk was the releat use of the sick emoji
the jekyll and hyde posting style of appearing bipolar
the threat to stomp people
the mention of gladiators, hulk was a gladiator in Ragnarok, the film just before infinity war.

contrived to the nth degree

This reminds me how in the gladiator game we were convinced that Vapor was PR because his first post was a quote in Latin by Cicero, who was one of the PRs, and we ended up wasting two jails on him as VT.

Now that he has claimed VT I don't think those "crumbs" mean anything, they were probably as unintentional as the Cicero quote. If they were from scum intending to claim doc, why then end up claiming VT? And if he was the real doc, he would not claim VT either, so they were not crumbs.

So now I'm thinking Vapor probably is a VT, as people claiming VT usually end up being VT. Claiming VT is still bad for town though. If you are a VT you should not be so desperate to save yourself that you need to claim, the claim does not really give town any info that town needs to have, and it does give scum info that they want to have, so bad all around.

I wish more town players would learn the bolded statement above.

[ND]

Bye

##vote Chaqa

His vote was completely baloney.

[worcej]

Bye

##vote Chaqa

His vote was completely baloney.

And yours is much better? Pot, meet kettle.

[xorxes]

ND could be a PR who wants scum to think hes vt or an idiot
ND could be a vt who wants scum to think hes sk
he could be SK pulling a double bluff too

but ND being scum only makes sense if hes trying to sac himself to force an sk counter claim. which seems unprecedented and unrealistic for him

either brain is spot on here or he and ND both scum (highly unlikely)

Do you believe ND really was roleplaying Thanos?

[ND]

Anyone policy voting someone from something they said page two is a straight up retard or scum.

[ND]

Jesus Christ what a lump of stupid

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie
I see what you purport... I don't think worcej is pr-hunting, but his question gives, perhaps, scum places to make their NK more confusing to town.

Thinking about it, how the hell is my question "who would you kill if you were mafia" a PR hunt?

Explain that one for me Jamie.

Because you could have asked "who seems the most town?" Or you could have asked "who is at the greatest risk of NK?".

But your phrasing of your question was such that it may reveal a lot about how willing each person is to answer.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie
I see what you purport... I don't think worcej is pr-hunting, but his question gives, perhaps, scum places to make their NK more confusing to town.

Thinking about it, how the hell is my question "who would you kill if you were mafia" a PR hunt?

Explain that one for me Jamie.

Because you could have asked "who seems the most town?" Or you could have asked "who is at the greatest risk of NK?".

But your phrasing of your question was such that it may reveal a lot about how willing each person is to answer.

Let me develop this further.

Worcej asked: " If you were Mafia, who would you NightKill?"

Mafia usually want to kill town PRs.

So if you're town and answer honestly, YOU'D BE TELLING WORCEJ YOUR STRONGEST TOWN PR READ.

If you're town and answer dishonestly, YOU MIGHT BE A TOWN PR DEFLECTING FROM YOUR REAL ROLE.

If you're scum, you'd answer dishonestly to obfuscate the fact you know who isn't mafia.

Worcej's request has much more relevance as a SCUM MOTIVATED gambit than a townie request for information.

Prove me wrong.

[Maniac]

@xorsex - I can understand if people get lost 10 pages in, but to not read the first 10 posts? It just seems unbelievable to me. He didn’t mean to lie, sc rarely do. He was just being lazy and not reading because perhaps he doesn’t need to. Who doesn’t need to read and figure out the piuzzle? That’s right scum. At this stage, I’m happy with my scum read on BunnyGo. Also he said I’m a shit player, as someone else pointed out, they aren’t the first person to say that so I’ll let it slide. The great Bo-Sox said I was the worst player who had ever played the game.

What do you make of him saying he ignored links? (I haven't ignored them this game, but I have done so in other games.)

Is it significant that you refer to rivera as "someone else" instead of calling him by his name?

I didn’t recall who had pointed out that others had said I’m a shot player. It wasn’t important enough for me to check.

I don’t follow all links. But BunnyGo had said he’d read all the rules, characters that RagingIke had posted but hadn’t read my posts (neither of which contained a link) literally right under RagingIke’s permission to post post.

It just doesn’t ring true. If people don’t read the thread they can’t solve the puzzle. Keen new Town are keen to solve the puzzle, if they miss the second post of the game, they are either not keen or not Town in my book.

[xorxes]

As for mafia, we need to remember they're only 4! I think it's easy to get into a paranoia state of mind, but we need to be careful about that

This is a weird statement. I mean... yes, Mafia are the informed minority, that is the game. And our goal is to find them. It is difficult and town frequently errs. I don't see the purpose of making this statement other than for scum!Vapor to sound good to townies. "Oh, shucks, we mislynched, but I warned you there were only 4 mafia!"

I think you misinterpreted what Vapor wrote. By 180 degrees I would say. You also cut his quote short. He said we should not worry too much about mafia becuse there are only four of them and then he went on about how we should actually be focusing more on the SK. Totally scummy thing to say, probably more so than what you actually interpreted, but I'm not sure yet what your misinterpretation says about you, if anything.

[dargorygel]

The room went from brain saying that vapor was likely to be lynched today... to suddenly everyone bailing.
Because he claimed VT?

I don't understand the fall away from him...
This is exactly what I expect dear Vape to do when his odd acting was spotlighted.
He acted all, 'shucks... i guess I'm gonna die.' and then "oh and I'm VT."

If there was a scum QT already, he might have gotten better advice. But this tastes like scramble to me.

He even says here: "alright, it's just that I saw it happen in previous game and it didn't seem like a big deal, parties still won games, I mean if town was screwed in past games, we all know that it wasn't due to reveals, but mostly caused by poor usage of various abilities and wrong voting patterns"
Which doesn't sound like truth-tell. But more like, "hey, here's an idea that might work... I'll claim VT... it happened in previous games!"

I don't think he was soft-claiming doc... I just think he seemed VERY uncomfortable. And with his signup comments about how desparate he was to be town, this is his disappointed panic vape hat.

[Jamiet99uk]

Worcej: In light of my comments, I want you to persuade me that your "Who would you NK?" thing was town motivated.

Get this right, Woecej, if you're town, or there will be consequences.

[xorxes]

@xorsex - I can understand if people get lost 10 pages in, but to not read the first 10 posts? It just seems unbelievable to me. He didn’t mean to lie, sc rarely do. He was just being lazy and not reading because perhaps he doesn’t need to. Who doesn’t need to read and figure out the piuzzle? That’s right scum. At this stage, I’m happy with my scum read on BunnyGo. Also he said I’m a shit player, as someone else pointed out, they aren’t the first person to say that so I’ll let it slide. The great Bo-Sox said I was the worst player who had ever played the game.

What do you make of him saying he ignored links? (I haven't ignored them this game, but I have done so in other games.)

Is it significant that you refer to rivera as "someone else" instead of calling him by his name?

I didn’t recall who had pointed out that others had said I’m a shot player. It wasn’t important enough for me to check.

I don’t follow all links. But BunnyGo had said he’d read all the rules, characters that RagingIke had posted but hadn’t read my posts (neither of which contained a link) literally right under RagingIke’s permission to post post.

It just doesn’t ring true. If people don’t read the thread they can’t solve the puzzle. Keen new Town are keen to solve the puzzle, if they miss the second post of the game, they are either not keen or not Town in my book.

I think that's a really weak case on BG, but let's say I buy it. Is everything else he has done consistent with him being scum?

[Kitsune]

Macro Reads List:
NB - if I miss anyone, consider them null.
Town
Brain - consistent with his town play (erratic votes, high post count, questioning ppl's motives). Furthering discussion.

Kitsune - getting earnest noob vibes from him, but he's still trying to figure things out.

Townlean
Bozo - I liked his opening but he hasn't said a lot more since then. Bozo isn't usually very active in the early days, so I'm not expecting a ton of posts from him until later. His activity in the mid/lategame should be telling.

Worcej - his alignment should be obvious by the late game. For now, his prodding looks good.

BunnyGo - getting good beginner vibes from him, too.

Jamie - every time I think Jamie is scummy, he's actually town. I think he's scummy this game, so he's probably actually town.

Null
Rdr - he's usually a lot more active in the early game

Xorxes - he's playing a little different than normal, but it's possibly because of his recent scum games.

ND - the persona is pretty weird. It'll be easier to sort him once he starts playing normally.

Vapour* - Vapour is definitely acting strange. Some of his posts give the survivalist vibe, but then later posts say he's fine with dying. Imo, he's either a scum or a PR. If he's still alive in a few days, we lynch.

Scumlean
Darg - nice posts without much substance.

Scum
Fox - lurker calling out lurkers. Easy way for scum to generate content without much effort
EMC - I recall seeing a bunch of his posts but nothing stood out. Seems like he's playing under the radar.
Kalal - really disliked his entry posts. It looks like he was trying to have an attention-seeking entrance

@Xorxes putting the reads here so I can review them (on my phone rn) and give my feedback, although really not sure half a dozen face to face Werewolf games with friends I largely died very early in are going to help me here.

Oh and by “we” I meant town sorry. I am getting that read from you... so I guess I am starting to catch on? That’s neat.

Brain: I don’t know how Brain “normally plays”, but I agree Espresso seems to have nailed how he’s playing and I get a good town vibe from him. Broadly agree.

Kitsune: Correct in all relevant details. Looking at this from outside my own head I’d probably put me in the Townlean box as I’m realizing confusion tends to help the mafia more than it does the town, but I’m giving myself enough credit to understand that some confusion is inevitable at this point.

BunnyGo: I don’t know. Tend to give a newbie credit for being that new, and I like his conviction is refusing to vote to lynch before we know something more. Tend to townlean here, but he’s also been inadvertently promoting confusion by playing against existing community meta, so could believe the other as well.

Other Townlean: I don’t know enough about how these three play to know if this is justified. Leaning towards Town for Worcej as well due to his prodding actions, but trying to keep a low profile as well. Possible SK? I don’t know, but if he steps up his game D2 and calls out someone new will be interesting.

Xorxes: As I mentioned, I get a solid investigative town read from you. Could be coloured in his eyes by whatever history you have from previous games mind you, but otherwise I don’t see the null.

Other null: I don’t really get a strong vibe off these players so... I guess? Sure? Not strong reasons I feel, but to basically say “I don’t know” I don’t think you’d need them.

Darg: I didn’t enjoy being his focus, but he seems to be trying to push this investigation too. Townlean vibe for me, would need a better explanation from someone to see how he’s scum.

Fox: I don’t know. Could be right, if we’re looking at the second heuristic again and see him as trying to blend in, but calling out inactivity seems more like investigation by his own criteria. I’m feeling null over scum.

EMC: I don’t know his usual playing style. Would need to see more posts from him before I could judge since it could still just be poor availability. Maaaaybe scumlean, but maybe null or a town player trying to keep a low profile too.

Kalel: I think I mentioned earlier, I get a zealous newcomer vibe off him. I suppose he’s a SK candidate too, but I’d prefer to put him in the Townlean box until or unless he incriminates himself.

ExpressoPatronum: I don’t agree with all his conclusions (I guess I’m a little less trigger happy) but I read him as mistaken rather than malicious. And hey, maybe he’s in a whole other wavelength I’m not tuned in enough to get yet. I’m prepared to be convinced he’s scum, but I don’t see it yet myself.