M62: PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF REVOLUTIONARY MAFIA GAME THREAD!

[ghug]

Considering it’s your opinion on if someone is bad or not and you’d know who is town, I don’t buy your comment here.

You can just pick someone that is inherently viewed poorly and push them with this stance and get little flak for it.

My opinion on who is bad is very consistent. When I'm scum, I want Flum dead. If I'm doing this, I can't vote for Flum. That's bad.

One example does not refute the whole approach.

You already indicated your method will change as the game goes on. Pushing players, like myself, who are generally assumed to be ‘bad’ is easy non-effort for a few day phases.

Sure, but it's also bad play for scum, because
a) it looks bad, see your push
b) it leads to removing of bad players instead of good players
c) it restricts the pool of players I can plausibly vote, which makes it harder to manipulate things to protect teammates

[worcej]

Worcej forgetting the game where everyone thought EoD was an hour after it was. I'm the only criminal of this apparently.

THAT was because of daylight savings time, which is not impacting this game at all.

No it wasn't. Not the game I was thinking of anyway

Well without knowing which game you are thinking of then I have no real comment to make.

[teacon7]

In M61, Durga subbed out D1 and was scum, and in M59, Chaqa subbed out D1 and was scum, so recent history suggests scum are more likely to leave the game D1. It is also not an "out-of-game" reason, since bo_sox was in the game.

That makes a lot of sense. Better than the rest of the subjective d1 crapshoot elimination. ##vote jamiet

[Hellenic Riot]

emc never says anything of substance

I had to go back a few games to find a game he hadn't subbed into, but if you read his D1 in M57 and compare it to this game I find the difference to be extremely stark, actually.

Can you elaborate on those differences? I'm not seeing it.

HR didn't give anything specific that differentiates emc here from previous games, and yet you "bow to his research." If that was a joke that's pretty terrible, because it sounds like you're using it to affect your read of emc. And if it wasn't a joke and you are letting it influence your read of emc, then that's super lazy and scummy.

I mean if you look at my explanation for why I voted emc, I'd say it was quite obvious what sort of differences I was noticing, but sure, I'll go through and actually quote them:

---

EMC posts in D1, M57:

https://i.gyazo.com/9ed7db863bc7bb519e9 ... eb6c2d.png

- First batch, that's opinions and his own thoughts on Tom, Damo, ghug, Nanook, and Hamilton - Plus some meta on Bunny

https://i.gyazo.com/1daf43c4f3f9673a474 ... 729a81.png

- Here we see some natural development of thoughts in an exchange with goldie, along with an opinion on Fox

https://i.gyazo.com/3bde571497ab8c7cf25 ... bccdcc.png

- Thoughts and engagement on/with Jamie, therul, Bo, damo, and questioning of rdrivera

---

I'm bored now so I'm not going to screenshot the entire day, but from those alone you can see emc's initial thoughts on a lot of people, along with quite a few attempts to engage people on certain points

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now if you compare that to this game - Emc has given absolutely zero townreads. He pointed out that worcej was oddly tryhard but instantly hedged it by saying most people are (P15). Soft-depends Neph from Balki (P29). Thinks Celaph's posts have good formula (townie) and then instantly suggests it could be because he's being fed them (more hedging - P31)

Later votes damo for being too chipper (P83), and finally gives his first actual townread on kgray (P84)

That's the grand total of reads he's given. He hasn't questioned people, he's repeatedly commented on the ND/Durga fighting rather than tried to give any townreads or any original thoughts of his own, and he doesn't seem to be trying to find scum. OR town. At all.

[worcej]

My opinion on who is bad is very consistent. When I'm scum, I want Flum dead. If I'm doing this, I can't vote for Flum. That's bad.

One example does not refute the whole approach.

You already indicated your method will change as the game goes on. Pushing players, like myself, who are generally assumed to be ‘bad’ is easy non-effort for a few day phases.

Sure, but it's also bad play for scum, because
a) it looks bad, see your push
b) it leads to removing of bad players instead of good players
c) it restricts the pool of players I can plausibly vote, which makes it harder to manipulate things to protect teammates

responses:
a) the ‘good players’ seem unmoved by my push, so meh
b) this buys you credit as you can sell why some is bad in any manner you choose. All you need to do is convince people, which you are capable of
c) see above.

[bozotheclown]

What do you think of my Jamie theory? reasonable, or too nitpicky rabbit hole?

I konw you were not asking me, but I think your theory is worth considering.

Also, no one listened to me last game when I said Durga was more likely to sub out D1 as scum, and I think that is probably true of bo_sox as well.

##VOTE Jamiet99uk

What do you think of ghug’s response to my theory?

But sure. ##vote JamieT

I disagreed with ghug’s response, but it is unlikely ghug would defend a scum teammate that way.

[Durga]

In M61, Durga subbed out D1 and was scum, and in M59, Chaqa subbed out D1 and was scum, so recent history suggests scum are more likely to leave the game D1. It is also not an "out-of-game" reason, since bo_sox was in the game.

That makes a lot of sense. Better than the rest of the subjective d1 crapshoot elimination. ##vote jamiet

Bo probably subbed out because he spent hours arguing with worcej (?) and was pissed off.

[Hellenic Riot]

I'm also getting somewhat perturbed by the fact that literally nobody has given a townread on emc and yet nobody is apparently willing to look into him either.

[Hellenic Riot]

@HR - really I'm looking for more reasoning. yeah, emc acted strange early on, but there's lots of reasons people act weird d1. I don't think he's the one for today. Maybe do a closer re-read of him and lmk if he still looks that bad?

Well, what do you think about the big post I just made?

[worcej]

In M61, Durga subbed out D1 and was scum, and in M59, Chaqa subbed out D1 and was scum, so recent history suggests scum are more likely to leave the game D1. It is also not an "out-of-game" reason, since bo_sox was in the game.

That makes a lot of sense. Better than the rest of the subjective d1 crapshoot elimination. ##vote jamiet

Bo probably subbed out because he spent hours arguing with worcej (?) and was pissed off.

Probably.

[Durga]

Good post by HR, I like the case, I usually put emc on the back of my mind to deal with later, but he has been incredibly abrasive so far in this game, which isn't an emc trait I remember.

[kgray]

I'm also getting somewhat perturbed by the fact that literally nobody has given a townread on emc and yet nobody is apparently willing to look into him either.

worcej, Vecna and I have all given townreads of emc.

[ghug]

One example does not refute the whole approach.

You already indicated your method will change as the game goes on. Pushing players, like myself, who are generally assumed to be ‘bad’ is easy non-effort for a few day phases.

Sure, but it's also bad play for scum, because
a) it looks bad, see your push
b) it leads to removing of bad players instead of good players
c) it restricts the pool of players I can plausibly vote, which makes it harder to manipulate things to protect teammates

responses:
a) the ‘good players’ seem unmoved by my push, so meh
b) this buys you credit as you can sell why some is bad in any manner you choose. All you need to do is convince people, which you are capable of
c) see above.

I would say that voting any of kgray, HR, Flum, Durga, Balki, Vecna, rd, and now damo is indefinable for me, unless it's against someone else in that pool. No amount of contortion is going to make those votes not suspicious.

[worcej]

I'm also getting somewhat perturbed by the fact that literally nobody has given a townread on emc and yet nobody is apparently willing to look into him either.

Oh, I choose not to - it is too easy to see scum in emc and his ‘give a fuck’ meter is always at zero to try to be towny.

[Fluminator]

This is my first game with emc ever where he posted something.
I don't want to punish that by killing him lol.

[Hellenic Riot]

I'm also getting somewhat perturbed by the fact that literally nobody has given a townread on emc and yet nobody is apparently willing to look into him either.

worcej, Vecna and I have all given townreads of emc.

Care to explain why?

[worcej]

Sure, but it's also bad play for scum, because
a) it looks bad, see your push
b) it leads to removing of bad players instead of good players
c) it restricts the pool of players I can plausibly vote, which makes it harder to manipulate things to protect teammates

responses:
a) the ‘good players’ seem unmoved by my push, so meh
b) this buys you credit as you can sell why some is bad in any manner you choose. All you need to do is convince people, which you are capable of
c) see above.

I would say that voting any of kgray, HR, Flum, Durga, Balki, Vecna, rd, and now damo is indefinable for me, unless it's against someone else in that pool. No amount of contortion is going to make those votes not suspicious.

On D1? Sure.
D5? I bet you could sell any of those votes.

[kgray]

In M61, Durga subbed out D1 and was scum, and in M59, Chaqa subbed out D1 and was scum, so recent history suggests scum are more likely to leave the game D1. It is also not an "out-of-game" reason, since bo_sox was in the game.

That makes a lot of sense. Better than the rest of the subjective d1 crapshoot elimination. ##vote jamiet

Yuck. This doesn't feel like town!teacon from last game at all.

[Hellenic Riot]

I'm also getting somewhat perturbed by the fact that literally nobody has given a townread on emc and yet nobody is apparently willing to look into him either.

worcej, Vecna and I have all given townreads of emc.

[Not to mention that Vecna's recent post about emc suggests he retracted that, and worcej's was a town-lean over 24 hours ago and nothing since]

[e.m.c^42]

When EMC is town, he will always have the super nuanced small little commentary that hits right on the mark. It shows a very accurate and detailed thought process that he then puts forward in a very subtle small post that speaks a thousand words. In this particular case it showed the duality in how he viewed a particular event (the event being Worcej's defense and process leading up to him going semi-hulk-mode). I quoted the particular post.

When I recognize those thoughts I always locktown him. I dont think ive been wrong yet? Maybe once when he was 3p, but then I shouldve known there was a 3p role and he obviously wouldve randomed that.

The brainbomb stuff......you'll witness it yourself soon enough.

Didn't notice this the first time around but I think I'm going to cry on you, Vecna. <3

Consider me well and truly pocketed, lmao

@vecna @emc - I can only recall worcej as a GM, and not a player. Is he usually like this? why do you have the read you do on him right now?

He usually has some range of shitpost, yes, but this game at that point came across with a slightly forced tone. Ergo, applying his own reverse reads on him, he's leaning town.

Now looking again in response to your query, the second thing I notice is that he is voting Ghug. He made this vote on the basis that four pages earlier (p.2) he had spouted some mumbo about Ghug "being on the burning pile". Frankly a lot of EMC's posts in this phase have been faintly poetic gibberish. I don't know why he is actually voting for Ghug.

@EMC could you explain your vote?

Thank you, thank you, it's faintly poetic! High praise indeed.

I don't recall the exact post-reaction anymore, but there was one where my gut went "this is different", and it felt mildly scummy. iirc it was the joke at bb - spectated the first part of the last game, where I thought his banter was scummy incorrectly. The feeling now is different from the one then, so reversed gut scumread.