MAFIA 52: You Can't Take The Sky From Me [HIDDEN]

[Jamiet99uk]

In fact, we should be doing a full mass claim, but clearly that's going to meet some resistance

It would meet less resistance if Xorxes would verify his role.
Why won't he?

[Jamiet99uk]

Claimed PR
xorx (Captain)
teac
darg
Tom Bombadil
rdrivera
damo
worcej
Jamiet
Goldfinger

Claimed VT
chaqa
emc
bozo
Temasek

Not claimed
BunnyGo
Flavius
Kalelchase
ND
peterlund
Superstition
Vecna (to be subbed)

[bozotheclown]

You have to remember, when all this started it was essentially an hour into D1 or a couple hours in when Xorxes started talking about a mass claim. That is all he has talked about. Yes, I think it is pretty retarded to have a mass claim an hour into the day. It might not be "anti-town" but it's null.

What is anti-town @BOZO is going through with this halfbaked idea BEFORE a consensus is reached.

What is anti-town @BOZO is claiming literally the most verifiable role ever (as it is a type of mayor role) where the GM HAS TO LITERALLY VERIFY IT. The power is for the GM to VERIFY THE ROLE. And the guy fucking refuses to verify.

The way I see it, he talked about this idea all day. Found out that at least a minority of people were open to it (some real geniuses like Chaqa), decided to go ahead and do it without a consensus (anti-town) and has now succeeded in generating a partial list of PRs. In the process he has claimed a role which is verifiable by the GM but has refused to verify (anti-town). And now has advocated the VIG shoot people (me and also goldfinger as of yesterday) that do not like his plan and has called him out on his anti-town actions which is in in itself ANTI-TOWN.

By my count Xorxes has wracked up three big anti-town plays.

Unless I am missing something, this setup results in a mass claim strongly benefiting town. We get 10 town clears, and any scum claiming PR would be caught. We even get 2 of our PRs replaced if they are NKed.

I have tried to push to get a consensus for a mass claim in previous games, and it is very difficult to get a majority of players to commit to it in time to pull it off D1. xorxes forcing the issue without a consensus was very likely the only way it was going to happen D1, so that was a very pro-town play, in my opinion.

[BunnyGo]

Why do you think it is so important to have xorxes confirm his claim immediately? Don't you think the real Captain would counterclaim at some point?

Because it's literally the reason more than one person has given from not participating in the massclaim. Xorxes' behaviour is dominating the day, distracting from scumhunting, and he just needs to get it over and done with. Why are you defending his nonsense?

If you think I'm a misguided townie who doesn't know how to use his power, you should ignore me and try catch actual scum. You should not be policy lynching me to teach me a lesson.

If you think I'm scum pulling some weird shit with the blessings of the real Captain, that's a different story. But I don't think anyone really thinks that except possibly peterlund.

And me. I really don’t understand why you’re pulling this fèihuà. So I’ll make it clear:

Whether I like the mass claim or not Jamie is correct it’s past the point of no return. I also really dislike how it was done; the method for forcing people to do this was shitty. However, it’s done. But I’m not saying anything until you’re cleared. I’m starting to really think you can’t do it.

I’ll be in and out for the next few hours, so don’t wait too long.

[BunnyGo]

For the record, I still disagree that this game benefits town mechanically with a mass claim. Nobody convinced me otherwise.

[Jamiet99uk]

See, @Xorxes, @Bozozo, @Tom?

We have two people, at least, who explicitly will not claim their PR / NonPR status until Xorxes verifies his role.

Xorxes is now actively preventing a full massclaim.

[bozotheclown]

In fact, we should be doing a full mass claim, but clearly that's going to meet some resistance

Unless we get more than 10 PR claims, I do not see any additional benefit of a full mass claim. Keeping the PR roles hidden leaves open the possibility of the NKs hitting the PRs who will be replaced, which could give us 2 more town clears.

[BunnyGo]

Xorxes I think you're town. I also think you're not playing pro town, in that you're refusing to get verified. Creating this mistrust differential is not pro town. What more do you expect to get from reactions?

Five players have reacted in an anti-town way by voting for an uncced PR instead of someone likely to be scum.

If he’d claimed any other role then this would be an “unCCd claim” but his claim is designed to be mechanically confirmable. tiānxiǎode why he hasn’t cleared this up yet. The longer it drags, the more I think this is all a trap.

[ND]

I don't plan on saying my role until he verifies. When I see that GM message I'll state my role and move my vote accordingly.

[Tom Bombadil]

Yeah. I mean I agree xorxes should probably claim at this point since people cannot see the huge benefit of massclaiming.

Though the people refusing to claim are doing a disservice to town.

[BunnyGo]

Unclaimed list:
BunnyGo
Flavius
goldfinger
Kalel
ND
peterlund
Superstition
Vecna

Posted with the hour before Reaver warning:
Kalel
bozo
BunnyGo
Cha​qa
goldfinger
ND

Top Reaver suspects:
BunnyGo
goldfinger
Kalel
ND

Why reaver? You don’t believe the theory that *not* posting lead to the warning?

[bozotheclown]

See, @Xorxes, @Bozozo, @Tom?

We have two people, at least, who explicitly will not claim their PR / NonPR status until Xorxes verifies his role.

Xorxes is now actively preventing a full massclaim.

That is exactly the kind of thing you would want get out of a reaction test.

We already have 9 PR claims, we should just lynch those refusing to claim, regardless of their reason.

[Tom Bombadil]

I guess what I'm getting at is that massclaim makes sense regardless of xorxes role, so people connecting the two don't make sense to me.

[ND]

But, I'm just going to add I think he is scum so that GM message ain't coming.

[BunnyGo]

##vote goldfinger

Why?

[Tom Bombadil]

##vote BunnyGo

[bozotheclown]

Unclaimed list:
BunnyGo
Flavius
goldfinger
Kalel
ND
peterlund
Superstition
Vecna

Posted with the hour before Reaver warning:
Kalel
bozo
BunnyGo
Cha​qa
goldfinger
ND

Top Reaver suspects:
BunnyGo
goldfinger
Kalel
ND

Why reaver? You don’t believe the theory that *not* posting lead to the warning?

No, my list assumes the Reaver posted something that violated their restriction within one hour of the warning, but either of these assumptions could be wrong.

[Tom Bombadil]

##vote goldfinger

Why?

I am voting people who are not claiming

[xorxes]

But, I'm just going to add I think he is scum so that GM message ain't coming.

Your theory would be strengthened if 11 people claimed PR.

[bozotheclown]

Xorxes I think you're town. I also think you're not playing pro town, in that you're refusing to get verified. Creating this mistrust differential is not pro town. What more do you expect to get from reactions?

Five players have reacted in an anti-town way by voting for an uncced PR instead of someone likely to be scum.

If he’d claimed any other role then this would be an “unCCd claim” but his claim is designed to be mechanically confirmable. tiānxiǎode why he hasn’t cleared this up yet. The longer it drags, the more I think this is all a trap.

It is still uncced because if he was not the Captain, there would be a real Captain out there who could claim. On the off chance that xorxes is not the Captain, he is already caught, so why is it necessary to force the reveal today? Also, why should it affect anyone's willingness to claim?