Mafia 85: Return from Lockdown

[Frogsterking]

All the mafia followed the list, it's a known fact. Therefore because I didn't follow the list I'm clearly not scum. Either that or my teammates are really bad at convincing me to play in a way that'll get me townread.

WHO

DID

YOU

TARGET

AND

WHAT

WAS

THE

RESULT

And that's my CC, folks!

[bozotheclown]

If you are town, you should read this and tell me where I am wrong:

I think you are wrong in so many ways that the question should be rephrased to "list all the different ways I am wrong." I will show the way that jumped out to me as an example:

Although Bob not claiming does look suspicious, it appears the rest of the mafia followed the list, so I think Frogsterking is probably the Sicko.

That's a bullshit, made-up read lol. "It appears the rest of the mafia followed the list..." so allegedly you are assuming that all mafia are doing the same thing because...? How would you even know what the other 4 mafia are doing? "Although Bob not claiming does look suspicious..." you can't even get the words out to scum read me without qualifying your read on Bob first. Yes lol, concealing information, being caught visiting foodcoats who was roleblocked, ghosting the thread and lolcatting does make them look suspicious, good job. Of course somehow "following the list" is more scummy because "...it appears the rest of the mafia followed the list..." right...

The only example you came up with as to why I am wrong is an opinion I gave, I meant what is wrong with the confirmed part of the solution, which is everything else except the one thing you mentioned.

[sweetandcool]

This was AFTER sweet changed his return to claim DETECTIVE.

Possibly THE BIGGEST SCUMSLIP OF ALL TIME

How is that a scum slip my dude

How can he assume Bozo is Detective when he claims he is already assuming he is detective himself?

damo, before Food flipped ECO, I had no reason to believe Bozo was lying. There were only two players claiming an alignment scan, both with return "Town". Since I returned "Mafia", I HAD to be Detective, ECO, or Mail Man.

Since Bozo was "detective", and nobody else returned "Mafia", I couldn't be Mail Man either and consequently had to be ECO.

The flip of ECO is what made it clear to me that Bozo was lying about Detective, because I had to be.

[Chaqa]

All the mafia followed the list, it's a known fact. Therefore because I didn't follow the list I'm clearly not scum. Either that or my teammates are really bad at convincing me to play in a way that'll get me townread.

WHO

DID

YOU

TARGET

AND

WHAT

WAS

THE

RESULT

And that's my CC, folks!

?

[damo666]

How is that a scum slip my dude

How can he assume Bozo is Detective when he claims he is already assuming he is detective himself?

damo, before Food flipped ECO, I had no reason to believe Bozo was lying. There were only two players claiming an alignment scan, both with return "Town". Since I returned "Mafia", I HAD to be Detective, ECO, or Mail Man.

Since Bozo was "detective", and nobody else returned "Mafia", I couldn't be Mail Man either and consequently had to be ECO.

The flip of ECO is what made it clear to me that Bozo was lying about Detective, because I had to be.

Yeah makes sense.

I now have Bozo as 4th man. Who do you think is 5th? brain baby worcej or Kak? [If you say anyone else I'll scream].

[damo666]

All the mafia followed the list, it's a known fact. Therefore because I didn't follow the list I'm clearly not scum. Either that or my teammates are really bad at convincing me to play in a way that'll get me townread.

WHO

DID

YOU

TARGET

AND

WHAT

WAS

THE

RESULT

He targeted food as Corrupt Cop and got ECO.

[Frogsterking]

I thought Bob was sicko?

[Frogsterking]

Where is Hamilton Brian? I want to hear their take on all this.

[damo666]

I thought Bob was sicko?

Yeah or sicko, keep forgetting it's target's target's role not target's target's return [for D&W as Middle M]

[damo666]

If you are town, you should read this and tell me where I am wrong:

I think you are wrong in so many ways that the question should be rephrased to "list all the different ways I am wrong." I will show the way that jumped out to me as an example:

Although Bob not claiming does look suspicious, it appears the rest of the mafia followed the list, so I think Frogsterking is probably the Sicko.

That's a bullshit, made-up read lol. "It appears the rest of the mafia followed the list..." so allegedly you are assuming that all mafia are doing the same thing because...? How would you even know what the other 4 mafia are doing? "Although Bob not claiming does look suspicious..." you can't even get the words out to scum read me without qualifying your read on Bob first. Yes lol, concealing information, being caught visiting foodcoats who was roleblocked, ghosting the thread and lolcatting does make them look suspicious, good job. Of course somehow "following the list" is more scummy because "...it appears the rest of the mafia followed the list..." right...

Based the claims, it is confirmed to me that 2 of the other mafia (Jamie and brainbomb) followed the list, and there is no reason to think the other 2 (Hamilton and sweetandcool) did not, although thinking about it again, sweetandcool may not have followed the list because he was assigned a mafia target.

In any case, the game is essentially over.

At least that bit is right.

[Kakarroto]

That was a good play by sweetandcool to get foodcoats DKed, but his flip has resolved some things:
1. foodcoats being the ECO confirms Jamie as mafia. Jamie reporting ECO as a result makes it almost certain he is the Police Commissioner and reported a real result.
2. foodcoats being the ECO confirms sweetandcool is mafia from my perspective, probably the Corrupt Cop who initially tried to hide in the delivered/undelivered group then switched to the town/mafia group when he realized foodcoats was the ECO and roleblocked.
3. Jamie being mafia confirms that Diplomacy&Warfare is the Middle Manager, and Diplomacy&Warfare's report confirms Bob targeted foodcoats and roleblocked him, making Bob the Sicko or Curfew Enforcer.
4. foodcoats being the ECO confirms lfischl is the doctor.
5. The vote count being correct confirms BK3K did target Bob and is the Lobbyist.

I know damo is the Paper Delivery Boy, heart is the Internal Affairs, and worcej is town. Kakarroto is the only one who fit as News Host, and Chaqa is now confirmed as the Door-Darter.

The roleblocks indicate that Frogsterking and Bob are the Sicko and Curfew Enforcer in either order.

That leaves brainbomb, Nephthys, worcej, and Hamilton for Mail Man, Ruber Driver, Corrupt Cop, and DaDa Driver, but I know worcej is town, so he must be the Mail Man, making brainbomb the E-Mail Hacker. Nephthys report of a player ID is consistent with Ruber Driver and DaDa Driver, but Hamilton’s claim is not, making Nephthys the Ruber Driver and Hamilton the DaDa Driver with a fake claim report.

So, unless I made a mistake, the only ambiguity left for me is which one of Frogsterking and Bob is the Sicko and which one is the Curfew Enforcer. Although Bob not claiming does look suspicious, it appears the rest of the mafia followed the list, so I think Frogsterking is probably the Sicko.

That leaves this:
babyspice: Polster
BK3K: Lobbyist
Bob: Curfew Enforcer (possibly Sicko)
bozo: Detective
brainbomb: E-Mail Hacker
Chaqa: Door-Darter
damo: Paper Delivery Boy
Diplomacy&Warfare: Middle Manager
Frogsterking: Sicko (possibly Curfew Enforcer)
Hamilton: DaDa Driver
heart: Internal Affairs
Jamie: Police Commissioner
Kakarroto: News Host
Lfischl: Doctor
Nephthys: Ruber Driver
sweetandcool: Corrupt Cop
worcej: Mail Man

This means the mafia team is brainbomb, Hamilton, Jamie, sweetandcool, and one of Frogsterking and Bob.

this line here ("Kakarroto is the only one who fit as News Host" - which I coloured blue in the quote) is very interesting. How can bozo be so sure about that?

Especially since detective bozo can be sure that worcej is town?

[Kakarroto]

Short hand of my logic

Chaqa/Food/Fisch all failed - Doctor/Sicko/CE
Jamie likely RB food, Frog likely RB Chaqa -> one is mafia
If Jamie roleblocked food, then Bob MUST be Middle manager
Given there are no other claims for a role return Dip must be CC OR Mailman and CC lied (This may be Jamie and he is Sicko)
Given Fisch also failed, this makes them likely the doctor

Either Worcej OR Bk3K must be NH (Success followed by Success)
As Bob is middle manager, thus returned ECO. Worcej is NH
Bob must have received ECO as his reveal for Jamie/Dip to both receive this
Bob and Dip are either MM/MM/EH

If the above statement by bob is correct then Chaqa/Damo are both town

Either sweet or Bozo is mafia

The Lobbyist targetted either BoB/Heart or Baby AND returned success
BK3K must be the lobbyist

Hearthrob is IA

For the claims to add up, the mail man MUST have recevied success
Therefore Dip is the email hacker
Kak targetted Frog who received success
Hamilton visited Damo who got delivered
Therefore Kak is mailman and Hamilton is scum

Brain is the pollster
Baby cannot be either dada driver OR ruber driver
In lieu of further claims, Neph must be the ruber driver

this here ("Either Worcej OR Bk3K must be NH (Success followed by Success) " forgets other people too, there is a success chain going from worcej to Kakarroto to frogster. At least if people claimed the truth

haven't looked at it further, but it looks there are some things overlooked. Please have a look at it again and double check it

[Kakarroto]

I may vaguely be around for the next hour but then going to bed, will try to check tomorrow morning but have a 15hr shift so unsure almost certain I wont around EoN

Please @@me with flaws/questions so that I can skim it tomorrow if I don't have time

oh ... well, I have some stuff to do and honestly, I've already put quite the work into the game, so I'll put that away for later. But honestly, it doesn't look too much like fun to check it right now. So if anyone else wants to, feel free. Also, maybe I die tonight and don't have to check it

[Kakarroto]

Short hand of my logic

Chaqa/Food/Fisch all failed - Doctor/Sicko/CE
Jamie likely RB food, Frog likely RB Chaqa -> one is mafia
If Jamie roleblocked food, then Bob MUST be Middle manager
Given there are no other claims for a role return Dip must be CC OR Mailman and CC lied (This may be Jamie and he is Sicko)
Given Fisch also failed, this makes them likely the doctor

Either Worcej OR Bk3K must be NH (Success followed by Success)
As Bob is middle manager, thus returned ECO. Worcej is NH
Bob must have received ECO as his reveal for Jamie/Dip to both receive this
Bob and Dip are either MM/MM/EH

If the above statement by bob is correct then Chaqa/Damo are both town

Either sweet or Bozo is mafia

The Lobbyist targetted either BoB/Heart or Baby AND returned success
BK3K must be the lobbyist

Hearthrob is IA

For the claims to add up, the mail man MUST have recevied success
Therefore Dip is the email hacker
Kak targetted Frog who received success
Hamilton visited Damo who got delivered
Therefore Kak is mailman and Hamilton is scum

Brain is the pollster
Baby cannot be either dada driver OR ruber driver
In lieu of further claims, Neph must be the ruber driver

First, how do you explain Jamie reporting foodcoats exact role and reporting it if he is the mafia role blocker? I think Jamie has to be the Police Commissioner.

Jamie posted after D&W, quite a bit actually. D&W said they targeted bob. If bob is not the RB but the police commissioner, Jamie would've known what bob's real message would be and could've thought of copying the message of D&W so it appears he is a role checker, so if he gets outed as mafia (and he was under pressure from brain, so maybe he thought it's possible to get scanned early), town would have scuffed information. It would even work if he survives for a time, so that he would get townread. That would also explain why bob never claimed anything, waiting for ideas from his maf pals.

complicated theory, but Jamie is clever enough to do that

but we cannot be 100% certain if jamie or bob are commissioner or sicko

[Kakarroto]

Suggestions for PR night actions:

Curfew Enforcer: I'm not 100% sure who you are, but I think to 99.9% it's frog. If not, frog is sicko. I want you to hunt for this sicko. RB him into oblivion. With this you will guaranteed rob mafia of 50% of their power. Maybe even 100% if they choose the sicko to do the nk. But lock him away. Make him wear a mask. That would be huge for our doc and investigators!

Door dasher and Paper delivery boy: I suggest you two (damo chaqa?) confirm each other by visiting each other. I know the paper delivery boy also tells you your role, but you will rob mafia any fakeclaim chance for the delivery brackets. And your biggest power, to show that you are town, will be empowered if you just clear each other.

detective: sweet, bozo; both of you know who is fake claiming here. You don't need to scan the other. Better check one we aren't fully sure of, like Brian. The exact choice is yours, just don't forget to tell who you are going to scan, maybe around EoD or so to rob mafia the info who will be scanned. FWIW I think sweet is our detective.

middle manager: pretty sure now it's D&W; so if you are up for the chain scan, you should target our detective in case mafia decides to nk him. I think detective is sweet, but if you are absolute sure bozo is detective, scan him. At least we will know who he will target then if he is mafia. In case the chain scan isn't done, I suggest targeting someone who you know (and I mean know) of who they target. That will be valuable info too.

mail man: pretty sure it's brain; like above, the chain scan might still make sense, so you should talk to D&W if you would do that. It might be a bit of a waste of investigation power, but it guarantees solid info in case mafia tries to manipulate. Maybe a bit overkill when our curfew enforcer rb's their rb. Other than that, if you choose to use it as a free scan, that's fine too. It could hit a target that returns low info (like success or so), but it's your power, I'm sure you're responsible with it.

news host: targeting either sweet or bozo might be good. Maybe even D&W, but rb could mess with you here. I don't think you should hunt for mafia roles, but please don't forget to post your target before EoN.

Lobbyist: I suggest targeting a confirmed town to give them +1 vote. Whoever you choose, please say so before EoN.

Ruber Driver: maybe you should check either bozo or sweet for who they target, so you can confirm what they are claiming and to make 100% clear (if the chain I suggested is done) who the role our middle manager scanned belongs to. Best to coordinate with the middle manager (D&W).

I’ve entered Damo for now, but are him and I are not already clear? We could do more

what if bob claims he delivered to food? And is furious that food never claimed that? I mean I would probably not believe him, but there might be a way that all the chain actions fit the claim. And even declares the same target as you? Or damo?

I mean that is a devilshly low percentage, but what else do you think you could do? the deliverys are self clearing, not investigatory. So sending both to each other would make sure to you two that the other is real, and with both of you claming that, it's not really possible for mafia to change that.

But as I said, it's only a suggestion, I was wrong about some things here already. I mean I think my logic was sound and just had some wrong info and my reads influenced where I lean for certain people (like I townread Jamie until it was pretty clear that he is mafia, and if we didn't get behind that, I would've continued townreading jamie) so I overlooked some low percentage possibilities, but they made sense. But feel free to use your action as you want, I just presented an idea which I think is best for town. I can be wrong and there are better, and if you want to have fun doing PR stuff, do what you want, I wouldn't mind or feel slighted or stuff. I just can't think of a better use.

Best is you talk to damo what to do, if you work together, there might be a way I totally overlooked.

[Kakarroto]

I'm looking at the game from a point of view where the scum team is Bob + bozo + jamiet and 2 unknowns. At one point in time kakarotto deduced that two of woc/hamilton//BK3K are scum. Now that we have confirmation or near-confirmation BK3K is lobbyist, are woc and hamilton the final two scum slots? Is Bob + bozo + jamiet + hamilton + woc a team solve?

@kakarotto

Did that surprise Foodcoats flip change your assessment at all of the last two scum slots?

I would to have a big look at it all again. But most information should be from town who wouldn't lie, except for certain scenarios (like sweet claims for fooling mafia).

I had a theory, that all mafia went to the same town, except the nk, but disregarded it after a while. With bob and jamie now, maybe there were more mafia on food? But we might've missed it.

after BK is now conftown, I really begin to doubt my reads, so I might've been wrong on brian and worcej too. Maybe something like the brainbomb theory really happened. Maybe I'm even wrong about you frog. I still think Brian has some very shady messages. But I could misunderstand that as town who just don't like all the big mech stuff and has logged out mentally. I think worcej looks more towny and don't see much mafia there, but I've been fooled before. Just look at my read for Jamie. Heck I do even in a small part of my brain suspect chaqa that he is actually mafia that pushed food at EoD. But there are also town signs from chaqa, so I don't really know anymore (and probably never had).

So I'm really cautious not to make a mistake again, since I was a big part in our misvote there

[Kakarroto]

I believe I must have been the one targeted by the Sicko of that helps

Nope. You were curfewed by Frog

I can’t follow this crap anymore. I’ll be back to drop a hammer at 6:01.

you were RB'ed (if you didn't lie about your message). But we also have a town role (we actually had two, but we misvoted Will who was the second town RB) that can RB their target.

[Kakarroto]

I think we should get Bozo and sweet to target either brain or baby. That should help resolve.

well there is an outside chance, so I'm not against it. Since bozo claimed to have scanned worcej, I would like to throw Brian into the mix as a potential scan target. Maybe bob, because there might some weird mechanical special case that he is town. Haven't seen it, but yeah, could've overlooked it.

[Kakarroto]

Based on what I am seeing I think kak is mafia who was hungry for a reason to scumread foodcoats.

On n1 it began here

[snipped the quotes, follow the link if you want to see 4 pages of quotes]

this is interesting and makes me think Jamie-food-lfischl are all scum together possibly.

just a theory but it could just be that Jamie busses lfischl at EOD and doesnt join partner foodcoats on the Will wagon.

you had food as town and suspected jamie

I think of jamie as pretty town and food not low chances of mafia

I give you that I can see this possibility. Have an indepth look at food again and check your townread of him. I'll do the same with jamie. Maybe you've struck gold here, brain.

At this point kak saw a window of opportunity to begin scumreading food and worked his magic through both concocting mech paths to mislead town, and to cement food as lying. This makes me think that given food was supposed to visit bunny, the plan was to kill foods target, and likely to roleblock food or do something that would trigger a pathway to getting him killed. Kak probably didnt know if it would work so all the posts about best play and narrowing the mech was mostly all cooked up to look accurate while really it likely has mafia self serving agendas laden within it

I mean, you're wrong, but I can see you seeing it that way. Also, you are increasing my chances of surviving the night, so please go on, I don't mind

[Kakarroto]

Based on what I am seeing I think kak is mafia who was hungry for a reason to scumread foodcoats.

On n1 it began here



At this point kak saw a window of opportunity to begin scumreading food and worked his magic through both concocting mech paths to mislead town, and to cement food as lying. This makes me think that given food was supposed to visit bunny, the plan was to kill foods target, and likely to roleblock food or do something that would trigger a pathway to getting him killed. Kak probably didnt know if it would work so all the posts about best play and narrowing the mech was mostly all cooked up to look accurate while really it likely has mafia self serving agendas laden within it

Is that within kak's scum range?

110% the dude is an absolute evil genius and he can win games for scum. He won a recent game where I was scum with him and carried the team

I would debate 'evil', but this is very sweet of you. I mean the game with Will I also had much luck in the end and RHK had it figured out, only because Will is so unique in his town play that Brian and RHK thought he had to be mafia, other than that it would've been me who lost the game. I think I played better in the game where I substituted in for DonnyDude, and I nearly messed THAT up because Jamie saw through me.

But I really hope you are town this game brain and I can take that compliment at full value. (That would also mean my reads aren't absolute trash )