MAFIA 51 - LONDON BY GASLIGHT [HIDDEN]

[xorxes]

Because Jekyll is dying tonight that iss why, why are we doing the mafia's dirty work for them

We are not lynching Jekyll today. Stop with this nonsense please. Nobody is advocating to lynch ND.

[BionicMole]

I am on page 53 atm and am going to vote for either ND or Chaqa. I'm leaning toward ##VOTE Chaqa

[xorxes]

@Chaqa: what is your read of Vecna?

[CmdrLikely]

Because Jekyll is dying tonight that iss why, why are we doing the mafia's dirty work for them

We are not lynching Jekyll today. Stop with this nonsense please. Nobody is advocating to lynch ND.

I think he was replying to me, but Xorxes convinced me otherwise.

[ND]

Cmdr doesn't look good. Skimming the last few pages.

[FlaviusAetius]

Ok I hear you, but this is literally there one and only opportunity to get a surefire kill on Jekyll, why wouldnt they try? Also Jack is in play tonight as well, and he most assuredly does not want a wild man Hyde potentially kill him, guranteed the real Jekyll dies tonight, and we get to have an easy scum kill tomorrow.
I understand you that they might think he is Holmes, but 1) Bob died, the genius aka the anti-detective, so unlikely
2) this is again there one and only chance to get a surefire kill on jekyll, something their absolutely going to do

We're not lynching ND today. Only two people are voting for him and I doubt anyone else will join them. I suspect ItsHosuke may be town. I don't know whether CmdrLikely, I have no idea what he's doing.

As for Chaqa, the decision on whether or not to lynch him has nothing to do with Jekyll. We know Chaqa is not Jekyll. The only relevant question is whether he is town or scum. If we think he is town, we don't lynch him. If we think he is scum, we lynch him. It has nothing to do with Jekyll. And it most certainly has nothing to do with any expectation that Mafia will kill him for us. They won't.

and Im saying the mafia are going to kill ND tonight, but if they kill Chaqa, we kill ND, knowing he was lying. but one thing that keeps coming up in my mind is Chaqa really is a scum then he can do whatever his role needs too tonight...I dont know Im still not sold on it. Why risk killing a townie, when we dont have too...not yet at least

[ND]

Did both teams and Hyde really follow ND s crumbs?
ND, with all respect, doesn't usually get gear killed n1. In fact, vecna and xorxes were not hit. Unless they were hit and aren't claiming. Were one of the scum teams newbies? Did Bob's team tie? Was Hyde sleeping?
Chaqa, when claiming, said that he'd received notice that Hyde had not killed. Did ND receive such a notice?

True. i usually don't. Who knows their team composition. All i know is what happened. The lightning rod gambit I deployed was successful, to some level, at least. If both teams targeted me then that's great, but I don't know if that's what happened and won't until I see the god qt. At least one of the teams did as well as the rb. Either way, this is a new game (why does one person have to be targeted over another you mention xorx and vecna; anyone who plays yesterday's game is not very good imo) and each of my long posts all had blatant breadcrumbs in them. Chaqa even called me Mr. Holmes after one of them. I'm sure anyone closely reading the thread and my posts could have seen me softing various roles. I baited the kill and day doced myself. If you don't understand how this worked, or believe it, or are confused about it then I'm sorry. But, at this point you kind of sound bizarre. I recommend re-reading the game bro. Also, chaqa has retracted his claim (if you haven't read it or just glossed over it). I already said I received a notice of that yes. Again, I recommend rereading the past few pages.

[xorxes]

As for why I didn't back off - I explained that. Once ND had claimed (which I didn't expect), the damage of "outing" him (not really since mafia already knew he had been protected) was done, and as I said, I wanted to see who would believe who because *mafia already knew which one of us was lying.

* - at least one mafia team, or both if Watson/Commuter didn't block a kill

ND's claim, Vecna didn't claim anything as far as I know.

You have a point on Mafia already knowing who were lying, at least 3 of them.

##unvote

I don't understand how Mafia already knowing who was lying makes the lying somehow more justifiable.

[BunnyGo]

Ok...so...we want to kill one of them tomorrow and one today, right? This is what you’re saying? WHEN WILL WE LYNCH BOTH IF NOT TODAY?

One dies tonight.

@Flav: take a breath and stop to think for one minute.

Nobody tried to kill Chaqa last night. There's no reason to assume that anybody will try to kill him tonight. He is a likely lynch candidate. Mafia have no reason to kill him.

One or both Mafia teams tried to kill ND, but they were not targeting Jekyll. There was no reason for them to think ND was Jekyll. It seems some people thought ND was Holmes, so Mafia may have been targeting Holmes. Now we know that ND is almost certainly Jekyll. Mafia will most likely not try to kill him again now that they know he is Jekyll.

Now wait. Don't respond. Stop to think. Then respond.

This. This is what I’ve been trying to say, but I’m on my phone at work.

[Chaqa]

@Chaqa: what is your read of Vecna?

Honestly he looks pretty bad, BUT he did say he’d be inactive and sporadic specially during these phases. I’ve always had a hard time reading him though. That said - if he lives past day 3/4 or so he’s probably scum (much like you).

[xorxes]

LOL

I can’t say for sure how many, but I absorbed at least one attack with my self-save. This is a great game.

And Vecna wants to lynch you...

So you do believe his claim?

There was no reason to doubt it at the time I said that. ND had not yet claimed.

The more interesting question is, what reasons did <*you* have to doubt it. Fakeclaiming Jekyll still seems rather absurd.

[BunnyGo]

One dies tonight.

@Flav: take a breath and stop to think for one minute.

Nobody tried to kill Chaqa last night. There's no reason to assume that anybody will try to kill him tonight. He is a likely lynch candidate. Mafia have no reason to kill him.

One or both Mafia teams tried to kill ND, but they were not targeting Jekyll. There was no reason for them to think ND was Jekyll. It seems some people thought ND was Holmes, so Mafia may have been targeting Holmes. Now we know that ND is almost certainly Jekyll. Mafia will most likely not try to kill him again now that they know he is Jekyll.

Now wait. Don't respond. Stop to think. Then respond.

Ok I hear you, but this is literally there one and only opportunity to get a surefire kill on Jekyll, why wouldnt they try? Also Jack is in play tonight as well, and he most assuredly does not want a wild man Hyde potentially kill him, guranteed the real Jekyll dies tonight, and we get to have an easy scum kill tomorrow.
I understand you that they might think he is Holmes, but 1) Bob died, the genius aka the anti-detective, so unlikely
2) this is again there one and only chance to get a surefire kill on jekyll, something their absolutely going to do

-100 points.

1) scum don’t give a shit about Jekyll

2) jack *likes* Jekyll. He’s IMMUNE to Hyde

[xorxes]

@Chaqa: what is your read of Vecna?

Honestly he looks pretty bad, BUT he did say he’d be inactive and sporadic specially during these phases. I’ve always had a hard time reading him though. That said - if he lives past day 3/4 or so he’s probably scum (much like you).

So his voting for you out of the gates today before ND had made his claim does not bother you at all?

[BunnyGo]

I believe you mean why I'm voting ND today then Chaqa tomorrow opposed to the other way around? Because ND is annoying, that's why. Otherwise I don't feel the order is a big deal in the grand scheme of things. If we fail to lynch one of them in the next two nights, then we are screwing ourselves, otherwise we come out ahead. Both ND and Chaqa gave the arguments why they both should be lynched, and yes I'm just agreeing, not adding anything.

Eliminating a town doc save today when Hyde will not be active tonight makes zero sense. Also, ND has stopped his annoying persona after his claim, and in any case lynching town because they're annoying is not pro-town.

Neither ND or Chaqa are town! They are town-liabilities. It's pedantic, but I want to clarify I'm not saying lynch ND "because he's annoying". I'm just prioritizing abitrarily. Maybe that does look not pro-town. I'm totally fine switching it.

##vote Chaqa

Are you sure you’re caught up and didn’t miss 10 pages?

[DemonRHK]

@Bunny: I don’t buy it. I don’t agree with lynching either one. ND is admitted and can be lynched tomorrow. Chaqa can be scanned worst case or left. He’s either VT and lynching him shoots us in the foot, or he’s team 1 scum and on the back burner now that team 2 is terrifyingly strong.

You wanna lynch Chaqa, be my ducking guest, but as of now I stick to frost, with my eye on bozo, damo, and Bionic

[Chaqa]

@Chaqa: what is your read of Vecna?

Honestly he looks pretty bad, BUT he did say he’d be inactive and sporadic specially during these phases. I’ve always had a hard time reading him though. That said - if he lives past day 3/4 or so he’s probably scum (much like you).

So his voting for you out of the gates today before ND had made his claim does not bother you at all?

He didn’t believe me, and I’ve kinda grown immune to people voting for me. I really had forgotten he did that

[ND]

Ok, saw the post on Frost. Yeah. It's something.

Cmdr or Frost should be considered I think. I don't know I'm 50/50 on Chaqa. Like, I get his post. It *Makes* sense. It really does with a few oddities.

VT! Chaqa comes up with a plan to put himself out day 1 as Jekyll. Knowing full well that it is likely to make him a target. Okay. A standard opening like this as a VT is acceptable. Some really great plays are made in games by VT's fake claiming early and taking a bullet for a PR. I think all of us who have played long term would agree on that. Then Chaqa, see's my cloud nine posts where I exclaim how I ate and mitigated night actions and doubles down. At this point, his gambit at drawing a NK has already failed. So, he wants to confuse the thread to start D2 and set up a CC situation between me and him. He let's this persist overnight until the morning (for me) when he posts his retraction and what he was doing. He wanted to see who bought into what. That may have been his way of at least trying to salvage something out of his opening. Fair. Always do the most with what you can after you open a specific strategy. It's possible we got Cmdr out of it (guy stinks) and something is off about Darg (100% feel that).

or

Scum! Chaqa comes up with a plan to claim that he is Jekyll. He knows that that the outside controller (Hyde controller) and Jekyll (me) know he is lying. Yet he does this... to set himself up as a town leader? When he acknowledges he didn't even lead. Also with another mafia team in the mix, they don't know he is lying, so he is still at risk of being shot, by them. It's not really optimal for a 3 man team especially if in this scenario he is on Moriarity's team. If so, he is basically cosigning that team to a certain loss, but by the time Moriarity flipped it was already in motion so nothing he could do about it. When his team targeted me (presumably or the other one did or both of them did. We don't know) and there were no deaths he had to know that things would come to a head. He persists in the CC for a few hours, sleeps on it, works out a decent retraction post when he sees that more people are voting him. He tries to salvage the situation and turn it around. Although, in this scenario and even in scenario 1 as VT Chaqa he must know that as long as he is alive this is going to hang over him as a doubt.

Honestly, I find things about both of the scenario's somewhat possible. I mean there are some oddities in his play.

1) He said at one point that Hyde kills starting N3. Incorrect as many said at the time. Hyde can kill N1. Deliberate tell to later fall back on later when he needed to retract? That's what I thought initially when I read it, but once the CC started I was thinking that maybe he just made a mistake about that because it wasn't his role. You know? That's still weird to me.

2) Pointing out that I was Homes day 1. Elementary, @all. I softed so many Sherlock references and that was the point. As soon as I got the role pm I doc saved myself without hesitation and started my lightning rod opening. But, he pointed out directly in the thread. I was going to quip D1 at him that it sounded like PR hunting, but didn't want to risk sabotaging my own opening so let it go and no one else pointed it out. What this means? I don't know, but Chaqa was definitely (as he has said in his retraction post) looking at me as Sherlock. If he is scum then he probably advocated for NKing me. Or if he is VT then he made a post which identified me as a possible Sherlock so even if the mafia weren't reading me that way, if one of them saw his post, then yeah they were aware at that point it was possible. In that case, I should thank him in the assist in helping to set up my opening and mitigate their night actions. But, still it's odd. What if I hadn't doc saved myself or if I was sherlock? I'd be dead right now. It's really an odd thing to do as a town role to point out you may think another player is a PR role in such a blatant way.

So I guess like Xorxes said, it really comes down to is Chaqa town or not. On the face of it I think he probably is. I think he got caught up in a VT fake claim, it went too far, he didn't fully realize what I was doing -as I'm sure many of you did not realize- and well after no deaths and given my role I had to come forward. As a town, we can't let Hyde get a chance to kill N3 that gives me today, N2, and if they don't kill me D3 but I should be lynched D3. Some things still give me pause like pointing out I could be Holmes in the thread, his mixup on when Hyde kills, etc. I'm not ruling him out 100% as scum.. but right now I think 50/50 gun to my head he is town.

##unvote

[ND]

Also Chaqa was pretty anti-Bob if I remember right. I didn't like the wagon either. But, there's that to consider too.. ugh.

[xorxes]

Honestly he looks pretty bad, BUT he did say he’d be inactive and sporadic specially during these phases. I’ve always had a hard time reading him though. That said - if he lives past day 3/4 or so he’s probably scum (much like you).

So his voting for you out of the gates today before ND had made his claim does not bother you at all?

He didn’t believe me, and I’ve kinda grown immune to people voting for me. I really had forgotten he did that

So what exactly was the purpose of you maintaining your fake claim for so long if you didn't even care who voted for you?

[damo666]

@ND - who are you scumreading?

@damo - why did you vote me right after I subbed in with no explanarion and then put me as a ? In your reads?

I was continuing my Vapor vote but have since reevaluated