20 Questions - Game 272

[Hominidae]

Before people get upset (like some did when I classified NASA as a "government" agency - I know, shocking, to some)... I am defining this question rather broadly:

6. Primarily known for politics, military, sports, or religion.

If you are going to take shots at least take them correctly. No one disputes that NASA is a government agency. The silliness is considering an astronaut famous for something to do with government.

I'm honestly wondering (and I don't want to drag this out, but I think it's important for the game in general): by the narrow definition of government, who would be considered famous for government, but not politics?

[Hominidae]

Born in North America, north of the 35th parallel north?

[Aristocrat]

Before people get upset (like some did when I classified NASA as a "government" agency - I know, shocking, to some)... I am defining this question rather broadly:

If you are going to take shots at least take them correctly. No one disputes that NASA is a government agency. The silliness is considering an astronaut famous for something to do with government.

I'm honestly wondering (and I don't want to drag this out, but I think it's important for the game in general): by the narrow definition of government, who would be considered famous for government, but not politics?

So, apologies to everyone for taking the bait initially, but since you asked and maybe this can turn into something more productive than relitigating old games:

Personally, I think there are multiple broad categories of people (judges, directors of most government agencies, diplomats and other civil servants who focus on actual government, police commissioners, etc.) that would fall into "famous for government" but not "famous for politics," provided its not someone like Hillary Clinton that is firmly famous for both ends of the spectrum.

Then the area of dispute that I don't think has much value in continuing on is whether, e.g., an individual solder is famous for something related to government. I say no, others say yes, agree to disagree as long as the QM is upfront about it.

Edit: An extra broad reading of "famous for politics" would largely make "famous for government" superfluous though, at least in countries not run by the military/theocrats/royals.

[Hominidae]

Edit: An extra broad reading of "famous for politics" would largely make "famous for government" superfluous though, at least in countries not run by the military/theocrats/royals.

Yeah, I think this is a good point, and it applies to authoritarian countries as well (for example, King Jong-un is definitely famous for politics, even though he's not in a democratic country).

But I think this is proving how subjective it can be, and I'm not sure where you draw the line between a bureaucrat and an astronaut. I prefer simply asking "political figure?".

[cdngooner]

Let's narrow it down. Born after 1900?

No.

I'm honestly wondering (and I don't want to drag this out, but I think it's important for the game in general): by the narrow definition of government, who would be considered famous for government, but not politics?

Is this meant to be a request for clarification for this game? It appears not, as there is no question or answer for today's subject that includes the word government. If you want clarification for this subject, please re-frame your request.

Born in North America, north of the 35th parallel north?

Yes.

1,5. Real dead white male human.
2,10. Born 1800-1900.
9,11. Born in US or Canada, north of 35th parallel.
7. Died 1800-1999.
4. Native speaker of Indo-European language.
6. Primarily known for politics, military, sports, or religion (all defined broadly).
3. Not primarily known as inventor, composer, visual artist, or writer.
8. Not elected official.

[Jamiet99uk]

Speaking as a British civil servant, plenty of people work for the Government but are not involved in politics. Indeed, senior civil servants are expected to actively refrain from political activity of any kind.

[Hominidae]

Jamie, I agree, but I think astronauts also count as government officials who are not involved in politics. I think the best practice is to just be really specific about what you mean when asking the question.

Is this meant to be a request for clarification for this game? It appears not, as there is no question or answer for today's subject that includes the word government. If you want clarification for this subject, please re-frame your request.

That was not intended as a request pertaining to this subject. Sorry for not being more clear.

[cdngooner]

For the sake of the game, let's leave the appeals of the Jack Swigert game for discussion in that thread, if desired.

As Aristocrat says, we leave a lot of latitude for QM's to be creative. It is certainly not unreasonable to consider a government employee who achieved his fame on a government mission to have gained his fame from "government." You personally, may have answered the question differently. That would be your right as QM. Someone (not me) answered the Jack Swigert question correctly. That person thought creatively and won the game. As it should be.

Now, back to this fascinating game.

[Spartaculous]

Speaking as a British civil servant, plenty of people work for the Government but are not involved in politics. Indeed, senior civil servants are expected to actively refrain from political activity of any kind.

The equivalent of this in the USA is the Hatch Act: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatch_Act

But it is routinely violated (sometimes with consequences).

[DarthPorg36]

Ever served as head of state, in national congress (or Canadian equivalent), or on the Supreme Court (or Canadian equivalent)?

[Aristocrat]

Jamie, I agree, but I think astronauts also count as government officials who are not involved in politics. I think the best practice is to just be really specific about what you mean when asking the question.

Yeah, but the question isn't/wasn't government official, or "the" government, it was government. There are government employees that don't actually govern.

As someone pointed out in the other thread, if accepting a check makes you famous for government, then Donald Knuth is more likely than not famous for government since his research was almost certainly funded by government grants, as university research tends to be.

[cdngooner]

Ever served as head of state, in national congress (or Canadian equivalent), or on the Supreme Court (or Canadian equivalent)?

No. Although we'd already established he was not elected to office, so that really only rules out the Supreme Court and a few Kings of Canada.

1,5. Real dead white male human.
2,10. Born 1800-1900.
9,11. Born in US or Canada, north of 35th parallel.
7. Died 1800-1999.
4. Native speaker of Indo-European language.
6. Primarily known for politics, military, sports, or religion (all defined broadly).
3. Not primarily known as inventor, composer, visual artist, or writer.
8,12. Not elected official, on his country's Supreme Court, or King of Canada.

[Hominidae]

Generally thought of as an activist?

[cdngooner]

Generally thought of as an activist?

No.

1,5. Real dead white male human.
2,10. Born 1800-1900.
9,11. Born in US or Canada, north of 35th parallel.
7. Died 1800-1999.
4. Native speaker of Indo-European language.
6. Primarily known for politics, military, sports, or religion (all defined broadly).
3,13. Not primarily known as inventor, composer, visual artist, writer, or activist.
8,12. Not elected official, on his country's Supreme Court, or King of Canada.

[DarthPorg36]

Ever served as head of state, in national congress (or Canadian equivalent), or on the Supreme Court (or Canadian equivalent)?

No. Although we'd already established he was not elected to office, so that really only rules out the Supreme Court and a few Kings of Canada.

whoops

[wintergreen]

Best known as the holder of an appointed office?

[cdngooner]

Best known as the holder of an appointed office?

Pass. May answer if you define what you mean by an appointed office? I mean, any "job" is an appointed office, defined broadly enough.

[Hominidae]

Born in what is currently Canada, Alaska, New York, New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Ohio, Pennsylvania, or New Jersey?

[cdngooner]

Born in what is currently Canada, Alaska, New York, New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Ohio, Pennsylvania, or New Jersey?

Yes.

1,5. Real dead white male human.
2,10. Born 1800-1900.
9,11,14. Born in Canada, Alaska, New York, New Hampshire, Maine, Vermont, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Ohio, Pennsylvania, or New Jersey.
7. Died 1800-1999.
4. Native speaker of Indo-European language.
6. Primarily known for politics, military, sports, or religion (all defined broadly).
3,13. Not primarily known as inventor, composer, visual artist, writer, or activist.
8,12. Not elected official, on his country's Supreme Court, or King of Canada.

Pass: Best known as the holder of an appointed office?

[Jamiet99uk]

Primarily known for a military role?