2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

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Hominidae
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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#41 Post by Hominidae » Thu Apr 25, 2024 7:54 pm

1,2,4. Fictional (just about) human
3,9. First introduced after 1887 but before 1950
5,11,12. First introduced in a novel, in which they are the main protagonist
6. Either presented as transgender, or has a gender that changes at one or more points in the storyline(s) in which they feature
7. Character from a science fiction or fantasy story
8. Has a lifespan significantly longer than that of typical humans
10. Not from a sci-fi TV show or film
13. Not a synthetic human
14,15. Created by an American author (who was not born in Europe)

PASSED
Male?
Does the character suffer significant memory loss?

NOT
Henchperson of Indeterminate Gender (Jamet99uk)
Orlando (Spartaculous)

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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#42 Post by Spartaculous » Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:17 pm

Asking about the novel in which this character was first introduced:

Was this novel written by a male author and first published before 1934?

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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#43 Post by Hominidae » Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:26 pm

Spartaculous wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:17 pm
Asking about the novel in which this character was first introduced:

Was this novel written by a male author and first published before 1934?
Yes.

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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#44 Post by JustAGuyNamedWill » Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:56 pm

I have a feeling that since this is from 1887-1950 range, i dont quite think there are many trans main characters lmao

So my intuition says that it might be some kind of non-gendered entity i guess, like a shapeshifter

Portrayed as transgender?

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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#45 Post by Hominidae » Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:02 pm

JustAGuyNamedWill wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:56 pm
Portrayed as transgender?
The word "transgender" was first used in 1974 according to the OED, so it should go without saying that this character was not explicitly described as such. Therefore, I'm going to pass on this question pending clarification about what exactly you mean by transgender.

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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#46 Post by DreamTrawler » Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:08 pm

Man, the only trans protagonist I can even think of from that time period is the aforementioned Orlando. Really curious what the answer is gonna be

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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#47 Post by Wattsthematter » Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:53 pm

Published after 1919?

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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#48 Post by Spartaculous » Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:56 pm

Was the aforementioned novel a children's book?

If yes +and no to previous question, non free guess: Princess Ozma.
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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#49 Post by Hominidae » Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:08 pm

Wattsthematter wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:53 pm
Published after 1919?
No.
Spartaculous wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:56 pm
Was the aforementioned novel a children's book?
Yes.
Spartaculous wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:56 pm
If yes +and no to previous question, non free guess: Princess Ozma.
Correct!

This was kind of a tough round to QM, partly because I haven't read the books that she's in for a very long time (so maybe it was an unwise choice), and partly because L. Frank Baum's worldbuilding is confusing. For the record she is a human-fairy hybrid, but I think a human-fairy hybrid counts as being both a human and a fairy.

I also realized after the fact that this round is kind of spoilery, but the book has been out for almost 120 years.
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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#50 Post by Spartaculous » Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:19 pm

Hominidae wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:08 pm
Spartaculous wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:56 pm
If yes +and no to previous question, non free guess: Princess Ozma.
Correct!

This was kind of a tough round to QM, partly because I haven't read the books that she's in for a very long time (so maybe it was an unwise choice), and partly because L. Frank Baum's worldbuilding is confusing. For the record she is a human-fairy hybrid, but I think a human-fairy hybrid counts as being both a human and a fairy.
That round was a good challenge. Thanks!

I also find it low-key* hilarious that this random Orlando character fit so many of the key details here (main character of a novel from the first half of the 20th century who at some point in the storyline changed from a man into a woman and went on to live for several centuries - how many of those could there be?).

* I wasn't born in the current millennium; one of you young whippersnappers should correct me if I am not hip on the present-day lingo.
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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#51 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:56 pm

Hominidae wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:08 pm
Wattsthematter wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:53 pm
Published after 1919?
No.
Spartaculous wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:56 pm
Was the aforementioned novel a children's book?
Yes.
Spartaculous wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:56 pm
If yes +and no to previous question, non free guess: Princess Ozma.
Correct!

This was kind of a tough round to QM, partly because I haven't read the books that she's in for a very long time (so maybe it was an unwise choice), and partly because L. Frank Baum's worldbuilding is confusing. For the record she is a human-fairy hybrid, but I think a human-fairy hybrid counts as being both a human and a fairy.

I also realized after the fact that this round is kind of spoilery, but the book has been out for almost 120 years.
Wait, what?

Her name is "Princess Ozma", which is implicity female. Please explain where her gender is altered?
Buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz.

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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#52 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:57 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:56 pm
Hominidae wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 10:08 pm
Wattsthematter wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:53 pm
Published after 1919?
No.
Spartaculous wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:56 pm
Was the aforementioned novel a children's book?
Yes.
Spartaculous wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:56 pm
If yes +and no to previous question, non free guess: Princess Ozma.
Correct!

This was kind of a tough round to QM, partly because I haven't read the books that she's in for a very long time (so maybe it was an unwise choice), and partly because L. Frank Baum's worldbuilding is confusing. For the record she is a human-fairy hybrid, but I think a human-fairy hybrid counts as being both a human and a fairy.

I also realized after the fact that this round is kind of spoilery, but the book has been out for almost 120 years.
Wait, what?

Her name is "Princess Ozma", which is implicity female. Please explain where her gender is altered?
And, just as importantly, where does she lose her memory, or not?
Buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz.

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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#53 Post by Spartaculous » Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:11 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:57 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:56 pm

Wait, what?

Her name is "Princess Ozma", which is implicity female. Please explain where her gender is altered?
And, just as importantly, where does she lose her memory, or not?
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Ozma:

Ozma is the daughter of the former King Pastoria of Oz. As an infant, she was given to the witch Mombi of the North by the Wizard of Oz. Mombi transformed Ozma into a boy and called him "Tip" (short for Tippetarius) in order to prevent the rightful ruler of Oz from ascending to the throne. Ozma spent her entire childhood with Mombi in the form of the boy Tip and had no memory of ever having been a girl. During this time, Tip had managed to create Jack Pumpkinhead who was brought to life by Mombi's Powder of Life. In The Marvelous Land of Oz, Glinda the Good Sorceress discovered what had happened and forced Mombi to turn Tip back into Ozma. Since then, the Princess has possessed the Throne of Oz (although many realms within Oz remained unaware of her authority).
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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#54 Post by Hominidae » Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:37 am

On the "memory loss" thing, she had no memory of ever having been a girl, but the only memory loss involved was just the normal memory loss that everyone has from infancy, so while it is very significant to the story, it seems kind of silly to count it.

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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#55 Post by Hominidae » Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:37 am

Also yeah, Orlando does seem like an interesting character. I should read up on that.

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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#56 Post by JustAGuyNamedWill » Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:53 am

Hominidae wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 9:02 pm
JustAGuyNamedWill wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:56 pm
Portrayed as transgender?
The word "transgender" was first used in 1974 according to the OED, so it should go without saying that this character was not explicitly described as such. Therefore, I'm going to pass on this question pending clarification about what exactly you mean by transgender.
IMG_0923.jpeg
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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#57 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:54 pm

Spartaculous wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2024 12:11 am
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:57 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:56 pm

Wait, what?

Her name is "Princess Ozma", which is implicity female. Please explain where her gender is altered?
And, just as importantly, where does she lose her memory, or not?
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Ozma:

Ozma is the daughter of the former King Pastoria of Oz. As an infant, she was given to the witch Mombi of the North by the Wizard of Oz. Mombi transformed Ozma into a boy and called him "Tip" (short for Tippetarius) in order to prevent the rightful ruler of Oz from ascending to the throne. Ozma spent her entire childhood with Mombi in the form of the boy Tip and had no memory of ever having been a girl. During this time, Tip had managed to create Jack Pumpkinhead who was brought to life by Mombi's Powder of Life. In The Marvelous Land of Oz, Glinda the Good Sorceress discovered what had happened and forced Mombi to turn Tip back into Ozma. Since then, the Princess has possessed the Throne of Oz (although many realms within Oz remained unaware of her authority).
Acceptable answer.
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Buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz.

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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#58 Post by JECE » Fri Apr 26, 2024 5:08 pm

Hominidae wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:37 am
On the "memory loss" thing, she had no memory of ever having been a girl, but the only memory loss involved was just the normal memory loss that everyone has from infancy, so while it is very significant to the story, it seems kind of silly to count it.
I understand why you chose to pass on that question, but do infants really lose their memory if they're not aware (of their gender) in the first place?
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Re: 2²+4² Questions: 10²+13²

#59 Post by Hominidae » Fri Apr 26, 2024 7:47 pm

JECE wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2024 5:08 pm
Hominidae wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:37 am
On the "memory loss" thing, she had no memory of ever having been a girl, but the only memory loss involved was just the normal memory loss that everyone has from infancy, so while it is very significant to the story, it seems kind of silly to count it.
I understand why you chose to pass on that question, but do infants really lose their memory if they're not aware (of their gender) in the first place?
That's a good question, but I would think a baby would be aware of whatever spell Mombi cast on her, at least in the moment.

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