Disable Reliability Rating

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Expand view Topic review: Disable Reliability Rating

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by Pengwinja » Mon Apr 01, 2024 1:36 pm

dargorygel wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:39 am
Pengwinja wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:23 pm
I still think that Dargorygel and other mods should do more giveaways, find peoples mailing address, and then use capital punishment if they ever leave a game early.

*this is a joke, probably.
As soon as we raise enough funds for our WebDipDrones, this might, perhaps, be part of the plan... mwa ha HA ha HA mwa HA...
I could work as a freelance ninja if you need it… I would probably be able to work best at aquarium areas, as I could rally other penguins against my target.

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by CaptainFritz28 » Sat Mar 30, 2024 7:26 am

*re-checks webDip mug for spyware

I knew there was a catch! :D

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by dargorygel » Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:39 am

Pengwinja wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:23 pm
I still think that Dargorygel and other mods should do more giveaways, find peoples mailing address, and then use capital punishment if they ever leave a game early.

*this is a joke, probably.
As soon as we raise enough funds for our WebDipDrones, this might, perhaps, be part of the plan... mwa ha HA ha HA mwa HA...

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by Wattsthematter » Fri Mar 29, 2024 11:34 am

kingofthepirates wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:55 pm
Pengwinja wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:23 pm
capital punishment
did you mean: "PUNISHMENT"?
(get it? it's a joke, because punishment is now capitalized! no? no one? alright... *slinks off to dark corner to sulk*)
The more liberal side of me has always preferred lowercase, italicized punishment

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by kingofthepirates » Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:55 pm

Pengwinja wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:23 pm
capital punishment
did you mean: "PUNISHMENT"?
(get it? it's a joke, because punishment is now capitalized! no? no one? alright... *slinks off to dark corner to sulk*)

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by Pengwinja » Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:23 pm

I still think that Dargorygel and other mods should do more giveaways, find peoples mailing address, and then use capital punishment if they ever leave a game early.

*this is a joke, probably.

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by JustAGuyNamedWill » Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:33 pm

Maybe there could be like an ‘insurance bet’

So like if you join a game with a bet of 5, you would actually bet 7 or so, and if you completed the game without civil disordering, you’d get whatever you earned plus the two extra points you bet

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by mOctave » Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:19 pm

The problem with that is that the points system is pretty much meaningless. If people really cared about the points, then draws would be virtually nonexistent. If a player keeps dropping out of games they're losing, then they probably don't have too many points to begin with. I don't think there's an incentive you can make that will work 100%.

While I agree with most of what Aristocrat has said, I do have one question: what does it matter if someone NMRs? Sure, it's a minor nuisance and can shift the balance of power slightly, but with official Diplomacy rules that's what civil disorder is.

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by French_boi » Tue Mar 26, 2024 2:31 pm

Maybe give a small percentage of points back (percent of bet, not your total points), regardless of result, for original players who see a game through until the very end? Obviously must be small enough that you still have incentive to try and achieve the best possible result for yourself. And conversely, the same small percentage could be removed extra from a player drops out.

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by Pengwinja » Tue Mar 26, 2024 1:19 pm

Well, if the problem is there isn’t a penalty to dropping out of a game, just make it so there is. Make it so ghost rating goes down, or something like that. Also, make incentive to stay in. I don’t have any specific ideas about this, but I do know it is easier to make someone want to do something than force them to do something.

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by Diplomacy&Warfare » Sun Mar 24, 2024 1:46 pm

Solution: add a manual player reporting feature that can be used to report players in games, not just on the forums.

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by Jamiet99uk » Sun Mar 24, 2024 12:47 pm

BrianBaru wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:15 pm
There is no real penalty for dropping out of a game. This creates all sorts of problems
Here is a suggestion:
1. Keep the site free to play, but charge a, say, $5US refundable deposit upon registration with the site. This is an individual player account balance.
2. When you join a game (either a new one or as a replacement), a $1 charge is made to your balance.
3. If you complete the game (win, draw, defeated or game canceled), or withdraw from the game before it starts, your $1 is refunded to your account balance
4. If you do not complete your game, your $1 fee is forfeited, and goes into a general fund used for site maintenance and development.
5. If your balance drops to $0, you may not join another game until you recharge your account.

This could reduce the number of players on the site, but hopefully it would reduce those players who drop out of games, trolls and bots.
This would create significant additional work for the site developer, who is a volunteer, as well as additional legal and administrative burdens on the site, and would significantly reduce the size of the player base.

Sorry, but this just isn't a viable idea.

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by wulfheart » Sun Mar 24, 2024 12:35 pm

And the problem stays the same. You punish some behavior but now it is monetary incentive.

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by French_boi » Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:40 pm

I like Diplomacy, and play every once in a while, but if I had to put down a deposit to play on the site I would just not play here. There are other diplomacy sites that exist, so adding a paywall, refundable or not, would just kill off activity on webdip.

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by BrianBaru » Sat Mar 16, 2024 6:15 pm

There is no real penalty for dropping out of a game. This creates all sorts of problems
Here is a suggestion:
1. Keep the site free to play, but charge a, say, $5US refundable deposit upon registration with the site. This is an individual player account balance.
2. When you join a game (either a new one or as a replacement), a $1 charge is made to your balance.
3. If you complete the game (win, draw, defeated or game canceled), or withdraw from the game before it starts, your $1 is refunded to your account balance
4. If you do not complete your game, your $1 fee is forfeited, and goes into a general fund used for site maintenance and development.
5. If your balance drops to $0, you may not join another game until you recharge your account.

This could reduce the number of players on the site, but hopefully it would reduce those players who drop out of games, trolls and bots.

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by Aristocrat » Sat Mar 16, 2024 5:39 pm

Diplomacy&Warfare wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2024 5:02 pm
Getting rid of reliability rating won't solve anything. My solution is that all-hold orders count as missed turns and decrease reliability ratings.

Also, yes, I have not played that many games of Diplomacy on this particular platform. That does not make my opinion invalid, nor my solution invalid. What makes your solution invalid is that it removes the only method of making sure players who join your game are reliable.
Except RR doesn’t do that, for the reason this thread exists - players can be unreliable just by entering all holds and quiet quitting (and RR being punitive encourages this behavior).

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by Diplomacy&Warfare » Sat Mar 16, 2024 5:02 pm

Getting rid of reliability rating won't solve anything. My solution is that all-hold orders count as missed turns and decrease reliability ratings.

Also, yes, I have not played that many games of Diplomacy on this particular platform. That does not make my opinion invalid, nor my solution invalid. What makes your solution invalid is that it removes the only method of making sure players who join your game are reliable.

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by Aristocrat » Sat Mar 16, 2024 4:02 pm

It has the same effect, but fine. The point is still quitting by entering all holds is affirmatively worse than quitting by dropping out.

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by Jamiet99uk » Sat Mar 16, 2024 3:58 pm

Deliberately entering "HOLD" orders is not an NMR.

NMR means you didn't enter any orders.
Deliberately holding *is* entering an order.

Re: Disable Reliability Rating

by Aristocrat » Sat Mar 16, 2024 3:38 pm

Diplomacy&Warfare wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2024 3:09 pm
Aristocrat wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2024 2:49 pm
wulfheart wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2024 1:45 pm
What would be a solution in your opinion?
Disabling reliability rating so people who want to quit can just quit and be replaced by others who will actually play

Or do what we used to do, and have it be something where the mods can step in and kick players out who are abusing the system (wide discretion must be given to the players though, since throwing the game is a legitimate move, but quitting is not).
Again, if reliability rating was disabled, there would be no way to filter out trolls. The requirement of having a good reliability rating to join games filters out trolls and people who don't fulfill their commitment.

If you want to leave a game that you have committed to, you're a bad sport.

People like you, who would just leave in the middle of a game, are exactly what the reliability rating system is supposed to filter out. Nobody wants to play with people who will leave as soon as their position gets rough. You are asking for the moderators to remove a mechanism that works exactly as intended (in this case, being a deterrent for leaving in the middle of a game).
It is NOT working as intended; that is the point (then again, you have been here for two months and have a grand total of 4 completed non-bot games on this site, so you have no basis to argue this point, or make any other grand proclamations). People are simply entering zero orders, which is actually the problem reliability rating was intended to solve - to address NMRs - and now instead people just intentionally NMR instead of doing so via dropping out.

Again, there is an alternative to simply nixing reliability rating, which is for mods to enforce on intentional NMR-ing, as they used to, but if that is out then getting rid of RR is the next best thing. Letting games continue to be screwed up by people entering all holds from viable positions, when they aren't throwing, is worse than having more drop outs.

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