There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

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Expand view Topic review: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by orathaic » Tue Sep 05, 2023 7:52 am

Seperately, on the German program.

That sounds so cool, my own children have definitely explored bodies in the bath (their own and their siblings) and this is perfectly healthy for their stage of development. So I can see some educational merit if implemented well. But it also opens it so many child protection issues however it is implemented.

It would never be contemplated in Ireland (or i believe the UK) because we are soo prudish as a culture about nudity. I was raised in this culture and i have heard lots of stories about Irish and British folks being uncomfortable going into public saunas/natural hot springs where nudity is the norm (in Iceland, but I suspect also Germany along with Northern European countries).

I think the general attitude to bodies is much healthier and should be encouraged from a young age. I am not sure this is the way to do that, and the risk groomers deciding to get jobs where they have access to children is only amplified by this*.

*I am not saying the program as proposed is run by groomers, I am saying the those who wish to exploit children have a long history of getting into position of power and Influence to do just that (whether that was within the Church or Swimming instructors or Scout leaders..).

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by orathaic » Tue Sep 05, 2023 7:44 am

Just a quick thank you to Jamie for flying the flag.

Then I wanted to note that Oct has a single point about how the 'rest' of the LGBT community is/should respond. It is worth noting that Pride has for years had a internal debate about the presence of kink.

One side arguing that Pride should be a family friendly event, and kink should not be on display.

It is pretty obvious that the other side argued that pride should be about pride in yourself and your sexuality, however that expresses itself.

This isn't some fringe debate which has suddenly appeared. The only new thing is someone has written a children's book to improve LGBT visibility and awareness.

For the record, i don't think any harm is being done and I would read this book to my children.

Parents should have every right to make decisions for their children, and schools need to figure out how to make a collective decision. But 'hostile to religious communities' seems a pretty big reach. If those communities' choose to be bigots, then I have no problem with 'hostility' towards them - especially when that hostility comes in the form of background characters in a book that kids are liable to find funny (src: i have read a lot of children's books in the past few years and seen how the audience responds).

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Fluminator » Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:43 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2023 1:51 pm
Fluminator wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:00 am
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:24 am


Source for this claim?
It's men dressing as women in exaggerated sexual ways isn't it? If there's another component to it I'm interest in learning
It's a creative form of self-expression and entertainment. There's nothing pornographic about a drag queen's act or persona.

Do you object to traditional pantomime shows?
The ones I've seen are probably the exception and not the norm then.

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Fluminator » Mon Sep 04, 2023 11:42 pm

I know a couple women who are offended by drag shows viewing it as men mocking their gender, but I was just curious if it was just a them problem or if it was a bigger thing. I added the lol because it was an awkward question.

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Jamiet99uk » Sat Sep 02, 2023 1:52 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:00 am
Are women ever offended by drag queens lol
Why the "lol"?

Many women I know attend and enjoy drag shows and find them very entertaining.

Personally I don't find it particularly entertaining myself but I certainly have no objections.

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Jamiet99uk » Sat Sep 02, 2023 1:51 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:00 am
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:24 am
Fluminator wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:01 am
their whole point is sexualization.
Source for this claim?
It's men dressing as women in exaggerated sexual ways isn't it? If there's another component to it I'm interest in learning
It's a creative form of self-expression and entertainment. There's nothing pornographic about a drag queen's act or persona.

Do you object to traditional pantomime shows?

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Jamiet99uk » Sat Sep 02, 2023 1:46 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:01 am
Is it like Wrestling but for gay people?
Also FWIW, lol at this comment but for the record, lots of gay/bi men like pro wrestling.

Source: Bisexual man who likes pro wrestling.

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Fluminator » Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:00 am

Are women ever offended by drag queens lol

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Fluminator » Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:00 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:24 am
Fluminator wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:01 am
their whole point is sexualization.
Source for this claim?
It's men dressing as women in exaggerated sexual ways isn't it? If there's another component to it I'm interest in learning

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by flash2015 » Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:21 pm

Drag Queen Story Hour NYC website:

https://www.dshnyc.org/

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by flash2015 » Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:13 pm

Fluminator wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:01 am
One thing that's always confused me is Drag Queen Story Time. That seems a little sketchy to me since their whole point is sexualization.
Granted I think the point of Drag Queens go completely over my head. Is it like Wrestling but for gay people?
If I understand correctly, Drag Queen Story Hour is something parents decide to send their kids to. It isn't something forced on kids to attend.

I think the concern with it isn't the sexualization but the very ideological focus of the content and its funding by the government. For example, a comment praising the NYC version of it says "DQSH is really about connecting with kids, helping them to understand identity and intersectionality."

There would be outrage if NYC was funding "Bible Story Hour". Why is this different?

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Jamiet99uk » Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:24 am

Fluminator wrote:
Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:01 am
their whole point is sexualization.
Source for this claim?

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Fluminator » Thu Aug 31, 2023 7:01 am

One thing that's always confused me is Drag Queen Story Time. That seems a little sketchy to me since their whole point is sexualization.
Granted I think the point of Drag Queens go completely over my head. Is it like Wrestling but for gay people?

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Fluminator » Thu Aug 31, 2023 4:24 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2023 6:20 pm
Don't turn into Fluminator. Find something better to do.
I've been summoned. Catching up now

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Jamiet99uk » Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:21 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:22 am
Let's just say it could be worse. At least its not Germany:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/germ ... -kdln8bpxj

Bypassing the paywall: https://archive.ph/2GUKC

A more culture war-ish source which is a bit more hyperbolic: https://reduxx.info/germany-sex-educati ... ion-rooms/

It is hard to find neutral sources here.
This does seem a very risky approach, I would not support this. I can understand that this would cause a negative reaction.

Obviously this is a very different example than the case of the book Octavious mentioned (and this German policy is not directly related to any LGBT issues).

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Jamiet99uk » Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:06 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:22 am
It is hard to find neutral sources here.
This statement, unfortunately, I agree with.

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by flash2015 » Sat Aug 26, 2023 3:22 am

Let's just say it could be worse. At least its not Germany:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/germ ... -kdln8bpxj

Bypassing the paywall: https://archive.ph/2GUKC

A more culture war-ish source which is a bit more hyperbolic: https://reduxx.info/germany-sex-educati ... ion-rooms/

It is hard to find neutral sources here.

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Jamiet99uk » Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:39 pm

And if you want to talk about books that are not suitable for children, the bible is full of hatred and pain and death and indiscriminate murder. It certainly should be kept away from schools.

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Jamiet99uk » Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:35 pm

Octavious wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:01 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2023 11:31 pm
But I guess the "progressive argument" for a book like this is simple. The message of the book, as I understand it from the coverage (I haven't read it) is that different people can have a wide range of different kinds of loving relationships, and that's a positive thing, which should be celebrated. It promotes tolerance and inclusion and opposes prejudice and bigotry.

Does that make sense?
It doesn't, though. It promotes fringe sexual kinks at the expense of excluding religious communities and secular conservatives and moderates (and I dare say quite a few lefties). It turns what should be a safe and welcoming environment into somewhere that is actively hostile and threatening. And it does so for no benefit whatsoever other than the self satisfaction of a few freaks at the fringes of the gay and lesbian community who are pushing this shit.

And the impact of this, as those freaks know full well, is to generate anger and hate and distrust that lessons the quality of life of everyone and puts LGBT people at increased risk.
What is hostile and threatening about a man wearing leather pants?

Re: There's Something Queer Going on in the LGBT Movement

by Jamiet99uk » Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:33 pm

Octavious wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 3:02 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2023 7:51 am
Well, this suggests two alternate approaches:
Amusing straw man is amusing

Also, is Preston all that bad? Can it really be worse than Bolton?
"Similar in awfulness to Bolton" was the motto of the Preston Tourist Board from 1994 to 1997.

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