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Finished: 04 PM Thu 04 Apr 13 UTC
Featured Private The World Is Not Enough - Let the Skyfall!
2 days, 2 hours /phase
Pot: 1874 D - Spring, 2017, Finished
World Diplomacy IX, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
25 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Quebec]:As I've mentioned before, I'd only be down for the convoy on the condition that you put up your draw vote, Kenya, just so that I can draw the game immediately in the event that I get dicked over. I give you my word as a Quebecois Emperor that I will not draw prematurely, but will only exercise my power if some shenanigans are clearly afoot.
25 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Quebec]:(And as hilarious as drawing with a 1SC Ghana would be, it would be still more satisfying to actually pull off that convoy)
25 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Ghana]:It is disrespectful to speak of the dead before they are dead.
25 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Kenya]:Well, no offense Quebec, but you did make a grand declaration that you'd drop your draw vote if we killed Ghana, so let us kill Ghana then discuss that convoy again.
25 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Quebec]:Don't quite follow your reasoning there.
25 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Kenya]:If I throw mine up, I have no reason to believe you won't draw to do Ghana a solid, a position with which you have already articulated sympathy
25 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Quebec]:Fair point, though I'd note that my declaration had nothing to do with Ghana personally and everything to do with my disgruntlement with the board's seemingly arbitrary inclination to draw after his elimination but prior to further whittling.
25 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Frozen-Antarctica]:Not sure that I see much more whittling to be done, Quebec. There is an argument to be made that the three superpowers (You, India, and Kenya) could manage to clear up Russia and I, but that with you already near 30 SCs the other two powers would have to play very, very carefully to keep you from getting within striking distance of a solo. Russia and I are positioned such that it is in both India and Kenya's best interest to keep us alive and supported, so that your expansion is checked. This board is essentially locked -- the rest of us are united enough to prevent your solo, and no one else has a remote shot at it either. This is how world games end.
25 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [India]:Well put sir. That is exactly how the game stands after Ghana leaves the board.
25 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Ghana]:Wow, India decided to show up to the game and post something after missing moves and half-assing it for the past two weeks. Thanks for that, India.
26 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Libya]:Really, I don't see why FA or Russia should be the nations to go (though honestly I wouldn't miss Russia too much). Why not have four-way with Kenya or India being the nation eliminated? It has been repeatedly established that four-ways are a common and straightforward ways for world games to end, and that Quebec can be prevented from soloing with simple coordination (believe it or not, this is not a public press game!).

So, India and Kenya. Which of you is going to step up to be the one not eliminated? Because both of you are certainly feasible targets, and you're long overdue for a fight as it is. I'm actually curious to see which would come out on top.
26 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Argentina]:India would beat Kenya; Quebec would be stalemated at 36.
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [India]:Please tell me how come, that two of the games eliminated players, feel empowered to give unsolicited advice to those players still active in this game? Can I rely on Quebec being stalemated at 36? How are you so sure that India would beat Kenya & not fall victim to an alliance of the others in this game? I think you are just stirring the pot to make this game exciting to watch for yourselves. Am I right?
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Argentina]:Of course that's right. Why do you think I would come back here otherwise? I have no stake in the game; I made no entrance bet, so why should it matter to me? I support Quebec, Ghana, and Libya because they are the three that reached out to me during the game and I think my support of them is warranted.
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Frozen-Antarctica]:Hey! I helped you plenty -- hell, I helped you right up until I stabbed you. I feel like I deserve a bit of credit too...
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [India]:Your support, thoughts & comments are welcome my friend. I find them most enlightening. I did not mean to cause offense by my inquiry, I was merely curious as to why anyone would still wish to be active in a game that they are no longer participating in or committed to do so.
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Argentina]:The point is that you stabbed me, FA. Not that I don't completely understand it; it probably worked out in your benefit, I just don't appreciate it ;)

And, India, I'm trusting that you would be able to coordinate with Quebec to gain territory through Russia, who I assume will be taken out either way, to give you more fleets and an alley into the east of Africa while FA and Quebec preoccupy him.

The Quebec max of 36 was from Russia. I doubt he has anything to gain in FA and unless he moves on Africa, he can't get higher than 36 anywhere else.
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [India]:Hi again, during my time in the hobby, I must have stabbed & been stabbed ten times over by every player in the hobby. I hope you are not holding a grudge, as each & every game is different & played for fun, win or lose, the taking part & trying to become the winner is the challenge & the enjoyment that makes it fun. We enjoy competing & applaud the players that get the better of us & we learn from our judgement errors & adapt & practice the techniques to suit our own style of play.
Life is a game & it is important to enjoy it & learn from it as we get hammered from all directions. Never let them get you down. Life is about how many times you get up off the floor. Each & every time you are knocked down, just get up, dust yourself off, laugh out loud & get back into the fight/game.
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Quebec]:"You gotta have strength on offense, power on defense, and play it for the love of the game."
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Argentina]:I am not complaining... I get over these things pretty quickly...
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Ghana]:I am complaining. Kenya is a dick.
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Argentina]:Well yeah, that's old news though.
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Frozen-Antarctica]:Man, India, that has to be more ampersands in a single comment than any other comment I've ever seen.
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Libya]:@Those who question my continued activity:

Thing is, I _am_ still a participant in this game. So is Argentina. You see, the beautiful thing about Diplomacy is that everyone comes into the game with their own goals, and these goals change over the course of play. Some value solos most highly. Others are perfectly happy with draws. Some value survives over defeats, and some the other way around. Some pursue Diplomacy Points. Others pursue Ghost Ratings. Some simply enjoy crazy tactical maneuvers, or screwing with people's minds, regardless of the outcome. Just like different real world leaders have different motivations.

Argentina and I retain the capability to use the Global Chat, something the general public can not do. We also retain the capability to have private conversations with other players in-game. Hell, if this were a tournament, we might have external reasons to promote a certain outcome even after defeat. This is not, of course, but that doesn't mean that we can't have internal reasons.

I consider myself to still be a participant in this game until it has reached its final conclusion. If you don't like that, mute me. You don't have to listen. And if, because of my words, you receive a less desirable outcome than you might have otherwise, perhaps you will think twice before screwing me over again. Because, unlike far too many on this site, I don't go down easy. Even after my last supply center is captured, even after my last unit is disbanded, I will still be lurking just out of reach, whispering words to your neighbors and making statements to the international community.

By all means, though, ignore me. I'll just be over in the next room, having a perfectly innocent chat with your "friends". About the weather, perhaps. About which way the winds are blowing. Sleep well.
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Ghana]:I will never forgive myself for stabbing you, Libya. Even a month or two later, the mistake still haunts me.

I shall create an ice coffin in Marie Byrd Land and lay myself to rest.
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Libya]:I initially read that as "an ice cream coffin". Didn't sound like all that bad a way to go!
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Frozen-Antarctica]:Libya, I think your approach is excellent -- as long as it doesn't extend beyond an individual game. I have a huge problem when people carry grudges, alliances, or other private information from one game over into another. Were this a tournament, as you mention, some this sort of information could be valuable (Person X is prone to support-hold right before he stabs or Person Y always builds too many fleets, those could be useful, but not Person Z stabbed me and I'm never letting him win another game as long as I live). But since this *isn't* a tournament, games should each be handled on their own merit, or it dilutes the... "purity" of the game, for lack of a better word.
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Frozen-Antarctica]:Mmmm, ice cream coffins...
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Ghana]:The purity of this game was diluted once Draug decided to quit and give his centers to Kenya.
27 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Libya]:@FA: On the rare occasion where I play non-anon games, I will consider the tactics, style, and motivations displayed by players I have encountered before, but that is only a consideration. After all, many players behave on a situational manner, so they won't act in the same manner from game to game. But just as when I play this game with friends in real life, it is impossible (and not even all that desirable) to forget their unique styles entirely.

That said, I enter no game with my mind made up on how I will interact with certain players. I've allied with players who were brutal enemies in past games, and made enemies of players whom I've worked closely with in the past (Redhouse being my favorite example of the latter; our first game together being a collaborative two-way draw and later games being quite visceral slugouts).

So, it is a combination. I never neglect to learn from past games, including about how other players play, but I also never enter a game close-minded about the other players, even if I've played with them before.

In short, while I _will_ continue playing a game after my own defeat, I _won't_ continue playing a game after the game as a whole has finished. I learn, of course, and carry certain lessons with me, but new games are just that, new games.
28 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Argentina]:@FA ... holding grudges could be argued to be a form of metagaming in my mind anyway. Same goes for holding alliances. Even in non-anon games, it's against the rules to hold onto things forever. I've been stabbed by people time and time again that I've also pulled off 17-17s with and I've stabbed them too. Like Libya said, the furthest you can go is consideration. (Case in point, I probably get more info about a player off of the forums than I do some of these games.)

I am, again, like Libya said, a player in this game, and until it's over - and hell, even after if we want to - I have as much a right as anyone else to talk it up.
29 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [South-Africa]:What the fuck? You guys *still* haven't draw this?
29 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Frozen-Antarctica]:As soon as Ghana's eliminated, it seems, the game will come to an end.
29 Mar 13 UTC Spring, 2016: [Argentina]:Play till you're stalemated, Quebec.
30 Mar 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [Ghana]:Now Kenya and I are the only ones left who haven't missed a turn.
30 Mar 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [India]:You will miss the next one Ghana!
Sorry to lose you & many thanks for your contribution to the enjoyment of this game.
30 Mar 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [Kenya]:Quebec, as much as I like to think you're in favor of the silly convoy, your continued aggression against Russia is not appreciated, especially since you have set up a zero-sum situation for my NEA fleet, a zone that I long ago laid claim to and to which I continue to assert my right to control. I'll be putting up my draw flag as soon as Ghana is eliminated. If you wish to perform the convoy, please back off to a defensible position rather than an aggressive one.
31 Mar 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [Quebec]:REMEMBER THE MOROCCO!
01 Apr 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [Frozen-Antarctica]:Will be curious to see if Quebec draws now or not. He's got NEA and Arctic Circle, but now there's a break into his Pacific blockade that will be able to slowly work down the coast. Given that he's essentially out of allies and unlikely to make more any time soon, I'm wondering just how far he's going to push it. Let me know your plans for the year and I'll help where I can.
01 Apr 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [Libya]:My bet is still on Russia or Kenya getting cut out before the draw.
01 Apr 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [Quebec]:Actually, FA, I have NE Pacific completely locked down. There will be no moving down the coast. If I lose an SC, I destroy either the dispensable Florida or Sao Paulo. I can tough this one out for some time if I so choose.
01 Apr 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [Quebec]:That being said, I don't really see how I'm gonna make any headway in the east until two or three of you fellas agree to bump someone off. I reckon I'll give it a turn or two to percolate, and then hit draw if y'all continue to demonstrate your present solidarity and aversion to moderate risk in the pursuit of substantive gain.
01 Apr 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [Russia]:Any reason you think you'll have more success in the coming year than you've had in the last three?
01 Apr 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [Kenya]:Quebec cannot hold arctic circle and NPO doesn't look safe either. While he could tough this out, we can collectively push back enough that it isn't worth his effort. Besides, if he pulls back now, we can still do a hilarious convoy. :)
01 Apr 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [Quebec]:Well, Russia, it does look like something's cooking around the Southern Indian Ocean. I don't think it's too much of a stretch that India, who pushed me to stab FA in the first place, will do his part to finish the job.
01 Apr 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [Quebec]:NPO is definitely not safe. But what do I lose if it falls? Worst case scenario, just the SCs that are keeping the units defending those SCs alive.
01 Apr 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [Kenya]:If FA starts to go due to an Indian stab, I'll have no qualms throwing the game in his defense. Same goes for Russia. And India, for that matter. I am sure that our mutually assured destruction will keep us united if our world-weariness doesn't.
01 Apr 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [Frozen-Antarctica]:If Alaska and YTE fall, you're looking at a breach in your northern border, which will make it easier to push back against whatever gains you might make in Russia. As for an Indian stab, at this point his units are mostly out of position, and any loss of an SC or two would be offset pretty quickly. I'm not sure what game you're trying to play, dear Quebec, but it doesn't seem likely to work.
01 Apr 13 UTC Autumn, 2016: [Quebec]:Well, I tried. I don't blame you guys for your caution. I think my biggest error might have been stabbing India early. Alas! Good game, everyone. It has been a pleasure.
03 Apr 13 UTC [India]:Thank you all for an initially interesting game, sadly I agree with you Quebec, you attacked me to early which removed any chance I had of competing with you for the win.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Drawn. Bet: 75 D, won: 375 D
27 supply-centers, 27 units
The Lord Duke (3918 D)
Drawn. Bet: 327 D, won: 375 D
19 supply-centers, 19 units
dubmdell (556 D)
Drawn. Bet: 75 D, won: 375 D
19 supply-centers, 18 units
jmbostwick (2244 D)
Drawn. Bet: 104 D, won: 375 D
11 supply-centers, 11 units
Tolstoy (1958 D)
Drawn. Bet: 75 D, won: 375 D
10 supply-centers, 10 units
bo_sox48 (4899 D Mod (G))
Defeated. Bet: 54 D
Tasnica (3366 D)
Defeated. Bet: 75 D
Fortress Door (1842 D)
Defeated. Bet: 75 D
MuadDib (1432 D)
Defeated. Bet: 75 D
Ursa (1310 D)
Defeated. Bet: 75 D
Ritmo (736 D (B))
Defeated. Bet: 75 D
Bonaparte23 (695 D)
Defeated. Bet: 75 D
Mapu (362 D)
Defeated. Bet: 75 D
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
Defeated. Bet: 75 D
Defeated. Bet: 75 D
EvW (72 D)
Defeated. Bet: 75 D
Draugnar (0 D X)
Defeated. Bet: 75 D
Civil Disorders
uclabb (589 D)India (Autumn, 2007) with 15 centres.
LegatusMentiri (100 D)Frozen-Antarctica (Spring, 2003) with 6 centres.
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