Democracy won't fail. The irrational-fiscally unsustainable socialist nanny state has failed, see Greece, followed by Portugal, followed by Italy, followed by Spain, followed by Illinois, followed by California, followed by........

Models that fund their systems on endless streams of borrowed money discover that there are no endless streams of borrowed money.

Greece was and is socialistic only in paper dumbass.

@ Maniac: The first of the aims is achievable, though maybe not to the necessary degree. A gradual transition to a pension age of 67 years is already in place in some European countries while an increase to 69 years is in discussion.

@Peijn - suppose they raise the retirement age to 69. A university educated person would then on average spend 21 prior to becoming economically active; then work for 48 years then spend 9 years in retirement. 48 years working and 30 years not working. This doesn't include periods of unemployment and absences to raise children. Also any increases in state pension age are lways deferred for years rather than been brought in straight away.

We need to do so much more.

The United States needs to abolish social security for everyone under 50 and rely on personal 401 K plans.
People would then realize that understanding personal finance is second only to the knowledge they use at work to contribute to a sound retirement.

Thinking that some government official will be as diligent and efficient planning for your retirement as you are is about as illogical an argument as someone could put forth.

The Greeks don't even want to repay 50% of what they borrowed.
The word of a Greek or of Greece is totally worthless.

Quick recap for idiots who don't understand what sovereign debt is, Government Debt plus External Debt=Sovereign Debt

Government debt is owed to lenders from within the country, Credit Suisse loaning money to the Swiss Government for example.
External debt is debt owed to lenders outside the country, JP Morgan loaning money to Switzerland by purchasing Swiss bonds.

End of lesson for the fiscally ignorant, like Pete U.

Greek looks like it will go through what Argentina went through at the beginning of the century when it failed to honor its sovereign debt.

A Greek default will cause Greece to quit using the Euro and any new Greek currency would destroy well 50-75% of the savings of individual Greeks.
GDP will collapse by 10-15%
Unemployment will approach depression era numbers in the 25-30% range.

This is exactly what happened to Argentina a decade ago when it defaulted.

Greek banks would collapse since they own sizable amounts of Greek debt.

So TC, if Greece failed because it was socialist how do you explain the debt in America?

The Greek debt crisis is in its end game. The only questions left will determine how much money Greece will refuse to ever repay of other people's money they borrowed and wasted, and when Greece will leave the European monetary union.
Italy is now in crisis, but the Italians are in much better shape than the Greeks, unless of course it turns out the Italians are like the Greeks.

The real question is what crisis Greece and Italy will instigate?
The pampered, egotistical Europeans are beginning to realize that their social/cultural model is collapsing (it's amazing to realize the Europeans are too dense to recognize the obvious already) and what type of political crisis this will set off.
With the collapse of European socialism and a complete inability for the European mindset to compete in a free market what will the decaying cultures of Europe turn too, Fascism again?

I was born 1975.
Before the Wars of the Balkans , in the 90s, I thought there would never be any war in Europe, during my lifetime...
After the Wars of the 90s, I thought there would never be a War fought in Western Europe, during my lifetime...
Right now, I'm pretty sure there will be a War fought in Western Europe, during my lifetime...

I do not know if war will result, but in the last week the political leaders of Greece and Italy changed, and when you study Europe's history the continent produced some of the most extreme political leadership of the 20th century. Let's pray that Europe doesn't produce another class of murderous leader in this century to match those Europeans followed into the abyss last century.

Let me guess, this murderous leader is socialist, no doubt.

Lessons for U.S. from Canada's "basket case" moment

Finance officials bit their nails and nervously watched the clock. There were 30 minutes left in a bond auction aimed at funding the deficit and there was not a single bid.

Sounds like today's Italy or Greece?

No, this was Canada in 1994.

Bids eventually came in, but that close call, along with downgrades and the Wall Street Journal calling Canada "an honorary member of the Third World," helped the nation's people and politicians understand how scary its budget problem was.

Canadian debt shrank to 29 percent of gross domestic product in 2008-09, from a peak of 68 percent in 1995-96, and the budget was in the black for 11 consecutive years until the 2008-09 recession.

Canada's experience turned on its head the prevailing wisdom that spending promises were the easiest way to win elections. Politicians of all kinds and at all levels of government learned that austerity could win.

MORE SPENDING CUTS THAN TAX HIKES

The ratio of spending cuts to tax hikes was seven-to-one. Asked why, Chretien said simply: "There was more need on one side than the other."

That contrasts with proposals this year by President Barack Obama and the Democrats to have a much higher proportion of revenue increases in the deficit-tackling mix.

Canadian ministers were told how much they had to cut and then told to come back with a plan on how to do it. Cuts ranged from five percent to 65 percent of departmental budgets and included controversial cuts in transfers that help provinces pay for health and education, decisions that lengthened medical waiting lists for years to come.

After wrestling the deficit to the ground, Canada enjoyed what Crowley calls the payoff decade, outperforming the rest of the G7 on growth, job creation and inward investment. From 1997 to 2007, it averaged 3.3 percent economic growth. while U.S. growth averaged 2.9 percent.

The Canadian dollar weakened from around C$1.38 to the U.S. dollar at the time of the 1995 budget to almost C$1.62 in 2002, helping make Canada more competitive. But it has since roared back and now stands close to parity with the greenback.

A Greek, an Italian, and a Spaniard walk into a bar and proceed to get drunk. Who pays the bill? A German.

Keep trying Tettie, you're only catching carp (me) with your bait.

TC There is a house with a Greek, and Italian and a Spanish (Spaniard is not a valid word you uneducated moron) WHORE in a notorious bar and proceed to get fucked.
Who is the cheapest? The American.

all copyrights reserved hellalt 2011

Yeah, we'll ALL be using that one right away. I'm sure it'll catch on.

"Let me guess, this murderous leader is socialist, no doubt."

One was, yes. Hitler was a member of the Nationalist Socialist German Workers' Party.

je, I'm glad your reduced to grammar correction.
Did you learn how to do that from a German?