I'm not any of those things although here I have told them that I am Christian for the sake of simplicity.

And even if I was I would be a progressive enough religionist to believe that my God would understand me praying with Muslims for the sake of mutual understanding.

I wasn't condemning you. I think it is admirable and was probably an awesome experience. I'm actually jealous. But you asked if you broke any rules and I was just pointing out how you *might* have depending on your own religious affiliations.

Oh I know I wasn't being defensive just explaining.

Yeah I dunno. It was really amazing all the same yes. When I had my forehead in the sand and it was totally silent I was like "am I really doing this?"

I was also the only non-black person there out of maybe 3000 people.. except for the National Geographic looking photographer. Lol.

My traditional boubou might have masked me from a distance though I doubt it.

Just remember that Christians, Muslims, and Jews just call the same God by different names. You aren't doing anything wrong. The empty, howling, cosmos do not care which fairy tale you allow yourself to believe :P

Don't tell certain Jews that... they think the Christians coopted Jehovah and that the idea of Christ being God is counter to Jewish religion and therefore they aren't the same God. They say one God means only one, not a Holy Trinity, 3-in-1 God.

That's awesome Thucy. Have you been to Goree Island?

Lol yeah Yellowjacket I agree.. I meant am I breaking any rules Muslims have, with my question. I was never sure and am still not sure if non-Muslims can pray with Muslims in the Muslim style.

Putin, I'm going to Goree in a day or two - I can't wait because the history and the slave trade stuff interest me a lot more than I think most of the other students I'm here with.

@Thucy

How cool would it be if you found yourself on the cover of National Geographic?

Happy Eid to all!

@Thucy: I've been invited to pray with Muslims at mosques, although I'm not Muslim. I think you're okay. Analogous would be attending a Christmas Eve candlelight service in a Christian church, lighting a candle, and praying without being a Christian. I imagine in sunny Dakar or snowy Des Moines you would be viewed as a respectful seeker.

As others here have suggested, Allah is the Arabic word for "God." Arab Christians pray to Allah, and traditionally Arabic Bibles (Tanakhs, too, I think) have translated "God" as "Allah." This is now controversial in the Muslim world, though. Recently, the Malaysian government has outlawed Bibles using the word "Allah" and is seeking to have Christians use another name for The Name.

i just kind of assume its the same god, this is why:

you dont know shit about god, so if you pray to The One God, and there really is One God, then that's who you're praying to. So if there is One God, Christians and Muslims both got at least that right and are praying to that God, whether he listens or not.

And Jews... Don't forget the Jewish singular God.

there are so few jews i dont think of it as a world religion.

im not saying its not important but it is a bit like always including kwanzaa in the litany of christmas alts. it exists, yeah, but it's not like.... a huge deal.

please dont take this is as anti semitism for christ's sake.

it would be like insisting that one of america's languages is cajun. it is technically accurate that there are people who speak cajun in america, but that is not really.... a huge deal.

it's not that big of a deal i just didnt say it because it is totally dwarfed by Christianity/Islam

also importantly, Christianity and Islam are universalizing religions, Judaism is an ethnic religion. This is just the way it is, it's also not meant to offend anyone.

Most religions are ethnic religions. Islam and Christianity are blueprints for world conquest.

Leave it to Putin to put a polarizing spin on the subject that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand...

Yeah, I guess 12 to 18 million isn't that big of a population considering the size of the Christian and Muslim world populations.

What's the difference between what Putin said and Thucy's "universalizing" comment?

The negative connotation of "world conquest" I suppose, though i agree with putin

"blueprints for world conquest" implies a stated desire to make all the world be, well, a conquered world. Universalizing implies offering/converting, not conquering. It's not what is said, but how it is said. If I said "I put down the wounded squirrel" and my wife said "you murdered an innocent creature", we are both saying I killed it, but one implies I was being compassionate and put it to sleep and the other implies I was cruel and murdered it.

He's right though. Christians and Muslims try to convert everything that moves... Jews just want to be left alone.

All I'm saying is that Judaism shouldn't be discarded as a world religion due to its size. They have more in common with other religions than the two other Abrahamic faiths.

All three are totalizing, in that adherence to the Deity is supposed to be the central defining trait of one's belief, worldview and praxis. Historically, strains of each have been more or less inclined to the universal missionizing impulse, although it is correct that this tenet has generally been much stronger in Christianity and Islam than in Judaism. (For an interesting side note on missional Judaism, take a look at the Khazar Khanate, although even this was somewhat accidental.) "World conquest" is the wrong lens through which to understand the focus of these religions. More accurate (if perhaps not less threatening/insulting to non-Christians/Muslims) would be that adherents of these faiths are attempting to inform non-adherents of the established fact that the world, and indeed the cosmos, has already been "conquered" by God.

Thucy, I do not believe you can define the importance of a faith merely by the number of its followers, but I understand your point that currently Judaism is much smaller numerically than either Christianity or Islam. Calling Jews the monotheistic Cajuns is not anti-Semitic, but it is rather dismissive. We've gotten rather far from your original point here, which was to share a spectacular-sounding spiritual experience and to understand how Muslims might perceive it.

BTW, I was on those Dakar beaches many years ago during a jellyfish swarm. Crazy.

@Thucy: "please dont take this is as anti semitism for christ's sake." I don't know if that was deliberate, that that was priceless! :-D

@ Ges: "More accurate (if perhaps not less threatening/insulting to non-Christians/Muslims) would be that adherents of these faiths are attempting to inform non-adherents of the established fact that the world, and indeed the cosmos, has already been "conquered" by God."

So that's what the Christians were doing when they murdered 100 million Central and South Americans...and why Muslims are teaching their children in schools run by Mullahs that murdering an infidel when get them 40 virgins (with or without clits?) in heaven.

I want to know what I get for my second month there. I mean, OK, so I get 40 virgins. That lasts a month and a half. Less if I want some afternoon delight on Saturday and Sunday... Do they get restocked? Or do they just never seem to lose their virginity?

@trip: My point was that the phrase "world conquest" implies a this-worldly focus. This does not match what Christians and Muslims think they are doing. Understanding the intent-action-result sequence clearly allows for informed and cogent critiques.

I imagine it's similar to when the pharoahs and Shang Kings buried their servants with them when they died.

@ Ges: Just because the desired result hasn't panned out yet (thank goodness), doesn't mean that the intent and action isn't there. I wasn't aware that you were in a position to speak for every Christian and Muslim. I'm interested to hear how you know what every member of those two religions is thinking.

@draugnar: as it was explained to me, the virgins re-virginise the moment you look away from them.

Was it wrong? The very idea that you posted this thread indicates that it was wrong. You did not "pray WITH" anyone.....you pretended....and because you do not believe as they do, you in fact mocked them.


A variety of fools have spoken up and decried the idea of God, and you have not objected....i.e. you don't believe in God....but you *pretended* to believe in god in order to appease some people and "have an expierience" in Sengal.

What you did is rather disgusting, in truth. If you were any sort of a man, when they went to pray, you would have had the balls to say "I don't believe" and walk away. I suspect you did what you did in fear for your life.

All this false, ridiculous praise you are getting from heathens for being a fake is rather ridiculous.

If I invite you to my church and you don't beleive, please do NOT pretend. Be yoruself. I will take no offense.

What you did is offensive...you mocked their religion in order to have a life experience. It's totally bogus and despicable.

Not really. Religion for most of time was more about participating in public ritual rather than "belief". Lots of people hail their cultural myths and legends without "believing" them to be true. For example, virtually everyone regardless of religious background enjoys the Santa Claus and Christmas legends. Participating in them is simply a sign of respect for the culture you are in.

I visited plenty a temple in China and spun the prayer wheels, made small offerings, and burnt incense to Guanyin. I even have this prayer shawl that was blessed by a monk. I don't have believe in Buddhism to respect culture and tradition, so long as that doesn't involve the harming of others.

And less you think me a hypocrite for not doing the same for Christianity. I am patron of virtually every Orthodox or Coptic festival in the area. I love Catholic and Orthodox cathedrals, monasteries and religious art. I see no contradiction there. I think religion has caused a lot of harm when people actually believe these legends to be true. But the art and culture it has produced ought to be respected.

"I suspect you did what you did in fear for your life. "

LOL! Lmao are you out of your fucking mind? Fear for my LIFE? I don't know how you imagine Senegal but it is no Saudi Arabia.

I did it because I was invited to, despite my protestations that I am not a Muslim and didn't think it would be proper, but my host brother and his dead father's best friend invited me to and brought to sit next to them in the sand. They said to do what everyone else did.

What I was asking is if mainstream Islam has a problem with what I did or not. I know for a fact though that my host family did not have a problem with it, and was pleased I came with them this morning, wearing traditional clothes and all, because I have taken more than a passing interest in their culture.

There was no pretending going on. They know I am not a Muslim. No one asked me at the door "are you Muslim."

Also when I go to church I participate there too, in that I stand and sit with everyone else and listen to the sermon and say Thanks be to God with everyone and so on - I don't take communion because I know I'm not supposed to, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if I did.

What I did today is essentially equivalent, I just wondered if the imams of today have anything to say about it.

Did you offer everyone ham sandwiches?