http://www.diplomacy-archive.com/resources/strategy/articles/turkey_hucknall.htm

Well going to BLA is indeed the common move but the full alliance with Russia with a BLA DMZ, moving Con-Bul, Ank-Bul, Smy hold is very strong... as long as Russia doesn't stab you :)

Russia would not do that!

the problem with Ank - Black Sea and Smyr- Arm is that it automatically means war with russia. it eliminates any chance of diplomatic maneuvers and adjusting to the situation. if austria decides to ally with russia you are screwed.

I would love to see a Smy-StP convoy :)

Yeah. Which of the 2 good options you do really depends on Russia.

The best moves would depend on your negotiations with your neighbors. Do you want to be friends with Russia or attack Russia? Do you think that you will be attacked by Italy and Austria, for example the Lepanto opening. If so you might want to move the fleet in Ank to Con, so that your prepared to defend yourself from Italy's fleets.

It's almost guaranteed that you'll go to war with Russia, if you don't then you will surely be ganged up upon for the juggernaut alliance is quite scary. I say you might as well get the best opening against Russia as you can.

Yes the problem of Ank-Bla Con-Bul Smy-X is that it leaves you quite vulnerable to the Italia-Austria Lepanto.

I think its Turkey that's more likely to stab in a Juggernaught than Russia. Russia has way more to lose with more potential enemies.

I think a jug, early on, is a good bet for Turkey. Russia likes it because he will usually be the senior partner. Then if the other powers get their act together and join forces, hopefully Russia will bear the brunt, giving Turkey an opportunity to stab Russia.

Desert rat!

Austria is likely to team up with Russia if you open against Russia.

Russia is your best ally early, and usually, your worst enemy later, hahaha.

The main problem with Turkey is convinving Austria and Italia not to attack you.

Syria is an important option.

Don't listen to that lando character, F ANK-CON is fairly common in FTF play and an excellent Turkey strategy.

One of my personal Favourite openings is often dubbed the Turkish Hedgehog.

F Ank-Con A Con-Bul and A Smr-Arm

It can be hostile to Russia however it can also be turned into an interesting alliance.

@GCar: That isn't a problem as far as I'm concerned. Just get Russia to support you, and countering the Lepanto is easy peasy.

A fun one, but really difficultto pull off is the Slingshot Juggernaut.

A Con-Bul F Ank-BLA A-SMY-Ank

Main problem is it requires a solid alliance between Russia and Turkey.

taken from here http://www.diplom.org/Online/Openings/interactive.html:

"Manus Hand's Russo-Turkish opening, sending the Turkish fleet to the Black Sea while Russia's fleet enters Armenia, with each power telling Austria the intent is to attack the other, and with both lobbying hard for Austrian support. As the opening charade unfolds, the Turkish Black Sea fleet and Ankara army dislodge Russia's fleet from Armenia, and with Sevastopol unavailable for a retreat, the fleet is forced to disband. Austria cannot blame Russia for trying the promised Turkish attack and being unable to retreat his fleet, and Russia commiserates with the "at least I have tied up all his units in the east" line, while both Russia and Turkey continue to plead for Austrian assistance in the coming conflict. In 1902, however, the Turk convoys from Armenia through the Black Sea to Bulgaria while Russia's now land-based forces hit the Austrian by surprise, typically supporting a Turkish attack on Serbia. "

best moves are all units hold

[SLINGSHOT JUGGERNAUT]
Manus Hand's Russo-Turkish opening, sending the Turkish fleet to the Black Sea while Russia's fleet enters Armenia, with each power telling Austria the intent is to attack the other, and with both lobbying hard for Austrian support. As the opening charade unfolds, the Turkish Black Sea fleet and Ankara army dislodge Russia's fleet from Armenia, and with Sevastopol unavailable for a retreat, the fleet is forced to disband. Austria cannot blame Russia for trying the promised Turkish attack and being unable to retreat his fleet, and Russia commiserates with the "at least I have tied up all his units in the east" line, while both Russia and Turkey continue to plead for Austrian assistance in the coming conflict. In 1902, however, the Turk convoys from Armenia through the Black Sea to Bulgaria while Russia's now land-based forces hit the Austrian by surprise, typically supporting a Turkish attack on Serbia.

Eh. I'm no expert, but even when Russia is swearing out the wazoo that he's down for a juggernaut, you always open to the black sea. It's just too powerful a place to give to Russia. And if you're certain that you want to work with Russia, plan the bounce.

i agree with (almost) always going to the black sea. you can always prearrange a bounce if russia is uncomfortable. the lepanto can always be defended by the F Smy build....and turkey always gets at least one build

i think the real intrigue is where to move that bul army in fall if you opened smyr - con. you have three neutral SCs and they all trumpet such different messages to your neighbours.

@damian can you explain the turkish hedgehog a bit more? what happens in fall?

@Smiley Face

too slow, bro :P I just posted that.

@Frank: The original idea in fall was that you could do

F Con -> BLA
A Arm H/S Russian F BLA -> Sev
A Bul -> Rum

It gets you the Black Sea and keeps Russia from building. It operates on the assumption that Russia will cover Sevastopol with the Black Sea fleet or a bounce, and gets you a dominant position on Sevastopol while denying Russia a build in Rumania.

Well depends on what Russia does.

My favourite it turn it into a Move to keep Russia off guard.

If russia moved to Black sea or Rum with Sev, and didn't bother to cover it your sitting there beside his home center and he usually runs back to it. My favourite trick there is Arm Hold. Con to Rum, Ank to Bul SC

Often it results in Russia moving back to Sev getting no build in the south and you have a shot at Getting Rum.

Or yeah what Pres said.

There's also a really sick anti-Austrian variant, but it's kind of a risk because a lot of moves can be bounced. If it works, though, Austria basically loses:

Russia:
A Gal/Ukr -> Rum
F Sev C Turkish A Arm -> Bul

Turkey:
A Arm -> Bul (c)
F Con -> AES
A Bul -> Gre

Turkey gets all the advantages of the vanilla opening (Smy-Con-Bul -- two builds) while placing a fleet in AES by the end of 1901. The builds are F Smy and a unit in Con; the army is useful to get the Alb-Ser-Bul line that kills Austria, while the fleet can allow for the forcing of the Ionian by 1902.

For Russia, you have the Black Sea, assuring Turkey cannot stab; of course, it is usually sent back to Sevastopol, but your position is extremely secure... and with only two southern units (notice A Mos wasn't needed... perhaps it can go reinforce the north?).

I'm frankly sick of Turkey winning in every diplo game I'm in. Turkey needs no help strategizing. Essentially if Turkey is allowed out of its box, Turkey is home free. If Italian or Austrian fleets keep Turkey in its damned hole & Russian and Austria keep the Turk out of Romania and Serbia, the rest of the world can breathe easy.

Avoiding a Russian fleet in the Black Sea is pretty much all you have to worry about in '01. Diplomatically Turkey does not need allies so much as she needs Russia and Italy to leave her alone for a little bit, although early Russian or Italian help spells death for the Hapsburgs. Austria is the nemesis and neutralizing Austria absolutely ensures a successful Turkish game. An Austro-Turkish alliance never ends well for one of the two, usually Austria. A strong Austria is a pain in the Ponte's ass. As for Italy, I rarely if ever see a successful Lepanto, and I've never pulled it off the few times I've tried.

There's only one way I'll agree to a juggernaut, and it's if Turkey 1. holds its armies in Bulgaria and Greece and supports any and all Russian movements into the area, 2. builds nothing but fleets for the rest of the game, and 3. owns Sev.

^As Russia? You'll never get a Juggernaut, then. Russia just has to break through the North Sea to win; and Italy can bottle the Turk up in the IONIAN, for goodness' sakes. You're basically telling Turkey "Okay, I'll ally with you, but only if you play the rest of the game with one eye, one leg and one arm."

@ Kingdroid: Awww. Boo. That's my favorite opening for any country though. Second favorite is the Key Lepanto.

IT is quite fun. I've only done it once, but it was hilarious.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=41198#gamePanel

My two cents.....

Well done, Maple.

According to data about play by mail games in Britain, turkey produces its best chance of a victory with F Ank-BS, A Con-Bul, and A Smy-Arm.