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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Vampiero (3525 D)
03 Aug 08 UTC
a polite request
i dont want to name any names, but i would like to politely ask the public if you guys could finalize you moves quicker. I completely understand when communication needs to be done between allies/enemies and a player isnt sure of his moves. but in the past couple months i have run into players who are consistently the last ones to finalize their moves in a game, and at times these players have 1-3 SCs. i know the players dont have to finalize their moves until the time is up, but i would just like to ask for some 'unwritten ethical laws' to be considered.
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
03 Aug 08 UTC
I agree this can be frustrating, but you also need to take into account people's real lives. For some people, it may not be possible to finalize any sooner.
aoe3rules (949 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
why not just decrease turn times?
Ivo_ivanov (7545 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
Actually, I agreee with Vampiero completely. Some people do this intentionally - maybe they hope someone will not finilize and they will take advantage, maybe they believe it gives them an edge (by annoying everyone else), maybe they are unhappy with how the game is going and this is some form of a protest :)
There's no reasonable explanation when you have 2 or 3 people in a game - all finilizing their moves half an hour before the deadline (or just not bothering to press the Finalize button at all) - and this is every turn :)

And, it is pretty easy to see when did someone actually log in - so you know if time is the problem :)

My suggestion - if the game allows it attack them - and explain they should finilize earlier. It actually works very well :)
Will work even better if more people did it :)
Maybe, a person just likes to have consistent deadlines. By not finalizing, the deadline remains relatively the same throughout the course of the game.
Sometimes my schedule rather harshly restricts my login times, and by not finalizing I can be sure not to miss any turns, as I have to login at about the same time every day. I also believe that not finalizing can be an effective, and completely fair, tactic. There was one memorable game where I managed to drag out the fall of my decaying empire long enough to bore the 2 others into a draw.
Chrispminis (916 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
Well as a habitual non-finalizer... I have to say I'm quite affronted by how affronted people get when I don't finalize...

Finalization was not designed to be the norm, but the exception, for when all players were ready to move on to the next phase before the 24 hours were up. Otherwise, the game would have consistent 24 hour phases. Especially now that phase length can be set at game creation...

Honestly, it's not unethical at all to not finalize. It's not meant as a tactic to annoy other players... I always expected a little more patience from Diplomacy players... especially considering Diplomacy has a long history of MUCH longer phase lengths during postal and play-by-email games.

There are many reasonable explanations to not finalizing and letting the 24 hours run on. It's been dismissed earlier enough as if it was not reasonable, but waiting for last minute press and negotiation is important. As not everyone shares the same timezone and login times, it's important not to finalize your orders before letting all players have their say. Log in times don't necessarily show whether time is the problem. I often log in when I have a spare second just to check my game statuses, and see how much time I have left and to check any new press. I don't always have time to reply adequately or decide orders, and I often have to log off right after. The time off lets me think more about what I'm going to do, and I'm thinking that many players don't put enough thought into their games, when they could be enjoying an entirely new level of depth.

As it's also been mentioned, there are times when I can't be sure I can get on more than once every 24 hours and prefer a more or less static deadline. In this case, not finalizing "ruins" the game a lot less than missing individual phases. Understand not everyone has the same amount of time on a computer that you might enjoy, and you should certainly not punish them for it or suspect that they have malicious intent behind their lack of finalizing.

All I ask is for a little patience and understanding... Even when the "offending" players are down to their last few SC's, it's much more important that they not give up and lay over than it is that you get to punch in your orders a little earlier again. There is no race going on here...
canute (0 DX)
04 Aug 08 UTC
I always finalise, and have raised this b4 only to be blasted...

i guess thats why there are shorter turn games now.

Also some players deliberately do not finalise as revenge, or if they are losing...
Not good, but not illegal either.
Churchill (2280 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
Absolutely not! I will use every minute of the time allotment if it pleases me. If you aren't willing to wait 24 hours for a turn to end, don't join a game with 24 hour turns...
MajorTom (4417 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
People have lives outside of phpdip and a consistent deadline is convenient.

If you want faster games, reduce the time per phase.
cgwhite32 (1465 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
Never finalise early - you never know which player might miss a go. Check their last log in times, and if they haven't logged in since the last turn, then take advantage. Think of it as if a General's orders went astray in transit from the rear to the front lines...
dangermouse (5551 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
I don't have a problem with some people not finalizing, but there is a significant portion of our players who start dragging out games as soon as they are losing. Like Vampiero said, they play at one rate up until they're at a significant disadvantage and then they let turns run out.

If they were using this extra time to petition for help or whatever I could understand it; but from the lack of response I usually get in these cases it seems obvious that there is no discussion happening. It's really just a case of sour grapes.
cteno4 (100 D)
05 Aug 08 UTC
Some people do that because they are going into CD and just abandoning the game. THAT bugs me. Maybe there should be a button to switch your country into CD automatically for exactly this purpose?
I agree completely with Chrispminis. In fact, I have at times wished that people couldn't finalize... because if there is a retreat or build phase where I don't get to build or retreat, then my whole schedule gets shifted by 12 hours sometimes, making things quite inconvenient.

In fact, that might be a different topic altogether... would it be possible to implement a standard 24 (or 12 or whatever) turn cycle for a game that isn't changed by everyone finalizing moves? That way a game to maintain a sense of consistency. Not as default of course, but as an option when creating the game.
Gobbledydook (1389 D(B))
05 Aug 08 UTC
If we keep making so many options then soon the game creation menu would keep you scrolling down and down and down...
DrOct (219 D(B))
05 Aug 08 UTC
Wait... So if I don't hit finalize the orders I have set up will automatically execute when the deadline is up? I had been under the impression that I had to finalize sometime before or at the deadline, or my orders would simply not be submitted. Was I wrong on that? Can I enter a bunch of moves but not hit "finalize" and then still have them execute when the deadline comes up?
Xapi (194 D)
05 Aug 08 UTC
Yes, you can.
DrOct (219 D(B))
05 Aug 08 UTC
Oh, huh, well most of the time I'd rather finalize and get on with the game but that could definitely be useful sometimes if I know I'll only have a certain time to be available on a given day, or want a consistent deadline for a while (for example if I go on vacation and have limited internet access).
Deimos (100 D)
05 Aug 08 UTC
I disagree, I am sometimes entirely sure of my moves yet I do not think i can be back in the next 24 hours but more like 30 hours, so i let it time out, i like to keep it cyclical at certain times of day to be sure I will be back before the next turn ends.


18 replies
cteno4 (100 D)
05 Aug 08 UTC
Build ordered, but no unit was built
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=4907

I'm Italy, and I ordered a single build during the last phase: a fleet in Naples. The fleet was not built. What happened?
2 replies
Open
Ballack (2571 D)
05 Aug 08 UTC
What defines a good player?
Is it:
1) Technical-Tactical Skills: Knowing the rules, knowing some tactical tricks, being able to look ahead and anticipate the moves of the others. Same skills what a good chess player would have. Or is it
2) Negotiation-Psychology Skills: The ability to convince others to ally with you. Of course, this is impossible without talking, but can this really be perfected above the obvious?
How much of each do you think is responsible for success?
7 replies
Open
canute (0 DX)
03 Aug 08 UTC
Suspicious play- Kestas pls look
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=4901

this game Russia and Turkey joined the EXACT same day and only play ONE game and thats together.
Furthermore its obvious that Austria and Russia are allied, so i am gathering its a group of mates tainting the game, tho the Russia and Turkey thing has annoyed all.

Kestas- pls investigate!!
12 replies
Open
Giramondo (100 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
Draw request
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=4562&msgCountry=Global

waiting confirmation of my pal.
4 replies
Open
Churchill (2280 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
Friendly Players
The users pineappleexpress and turkeysub seem a little friendly... don't you think?

http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/profile.php?userID=7233
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/profile.php?userID=7232

Well, naming syntax, user numbers, join time, and (at the moment) 5 new games set up with just them and no other players seem to all point to that direction.
9 replies
Open
ldrut (674 D)
29 Jul 08 UTC
Fight 'til you die
New game as I was kind of ticked off that between the first three games I joined there were five positions CD from the start and the game "For talkative people" seems to mostly have non-talkative people in it.

The game is only 10 points to join. Any experience level permitted, but it is passworded and I am only passing the password to people whose game history shows no recent CD positions.

72 hr phases, so lots of careful negotiation time.
23 replies
Open
Warren4451 (100 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
NEW GAME!! Unreliant
1 hour phases so we can this done get back other stuff. this is the first game i made so please try it.
1 reply
Open
xgongiveit2ya55 (789 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
Backend of Forever: 100 WTA
Need two more players to get things rolling. 32 hour phases, 13 hours left to join.
2 replies
Open
Frankie Ferdinand (100 D)
03 Aug 08 UTC
Fast Game - Saturday Night
Any takers for a one hour per turn game?
8 replies
Open
MajorTom (4417 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
What are these inactive face-to-face games I've seen?
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=4651
1 reply
Open
Gobbledydook (1389 D(B))
04 Aug 08 UTC
Slow But Sure
Again...it's a 200-point buy-in game this time, WTA, and I'm inviting Treefarn, Madmarx, Flashman, Wombat, etc...no arthurmklo's...they tend to backstab too soon.
6 replies
Open
Civ Dis Italy with 6 SCs:
Here's a surprisingly good opportunity for a late start:
Italy are in quite a good position, having started next to Civ Dis France.

It would make a more interesting game for everyone to have a live player (and good chance of joiner gaining some points):
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=4740
0 replies
Open
keeper0018 (100 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
alright, who thinks this is fair???
this is copied directly from the global chat message board of game "Who doesn't love a BJ?", or http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=4773.

(Italy) Spring 1904: Nice three-way deal. luckily I got into this game on the cheap. TURKEY: I GRANT YOU COMPLETE CONTROL OVER MY ORDERS. Send them to me and I will execute them precisely as you state.

(Italy) Spring 1904: Better yet I'm waiting until the last possible minute to submit every retreat. Scorched earth baby!

as you can see, both of these messages were sent by Italy. i think this is totally unfair and against the rules of diplomacy. kestas, is there anything you can do about this?
4 replies
Open
canute (0 DX)
04 Aug 08 UTC
KESTAS- Please investigate http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=4901
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=4901

Russia and Turkey joined the same day and time.
Russia and Turkey are allied with Austria which in itself is odd, and furthermore, Russia and Austria fail to move and only Turkey speaks, to avoid any press being analysed.

Call it paranoid, but given the moves and press it's at least cause for investigation.

Kestas, or whoever is looking after the site- please investigate!
0 replies
Open
Iidhaegn (111 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
Rules check
I've looked around a bit and can't seem to find the answer to this question. (I could very easily have overlooked something, but I've, like, triple checked so.) If one country is supporting a move to another place, can the countries behind him support a hold at his location? (For instance, if Venice is supporting Trieste - Tyrolia, can Tuscanny and Piedmont support the "hold" at Venice?)
4 replies
Open
Frankie Ferdinand (100 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
I can't believe I'm going to beg...
Please, can someone please join Very Fast 2. I have bee trying to get a game going all day and we need only one more player so please, can someone please help.
0 replies
Open
Frankie Ferdinand (100 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
Very Fast 2 - New Game
Trying to get at least five players.
Very Fast - 1 hour.

2 replies
Open
Frankie Ferdinand (100 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
Very Fast 2 - Only 20 Minutes to Join
We need more players to sign up for a quick Sunday night game.
1 reply
Open
Frankie Ferdinand (100 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
Very Fast - 2
New game.
1 Hour Turn.

0 replies
Open
Frankie Ferdinand (100 D)
04 Aug 08 UTC
Sunday Night, Alright - New Game Started
Very Fast - 1 Hour per turn.
9 points.
2 replies
Open
abab (1312 D)
03 Aug 08 UTC
Delayed draw request - game1team2vs2vs2-6players
I'd like to wait a couple of phases more, before definitely closing with a draw.
It IS a sure draw, IF no mistake is done, but you never know...
So I'd like to carry it over to let's say 1928 or even 1929, just to see a real stalemate line materialize (currently, if you look at the map, we're not exactly on a stalemate line).

Sorry for bothering you Kestas with these complicacies. I also apologize with other players for asking a delay of such a lengthy game, but it's worth seeing it finish properly I think.
3 replies
Open
mapleleaf (0 DX)
03 Aug 08 UTC
New game - FAST - 9 hour phases - 80 point WTA.
All are welcome.
1 reply
Open
Caviare (123 D)
31 Jul 08 UTC
why is winner takes all only for experts?
Why are only people with more than 100 points allowed to play winner takes all? The way the site is set up if I want to play WTA, I have to play points per supply centre until I have more than 100 points, then play a WTA game, then if I lose the WTA game I have to play more PPSC until I have 101 points again. I want to play WTA all the time. I think it is more true to the board game and the way diplomacy is played in face to face tournaments.

30 replies
Open
DeliciousWolf (112 D)
03 Aug 08 UTC
Interesting: Satirical Maps of WWI
http://www.boingboing.net/2008/08/03/satirical-wwi-maps.html

Found this interesting 'art' over at boingboing.net, my fav read.
1 reply
Open
gameknight (132 D)
02 Aug 08 UTC
How do I remove games from my games list...
I have lost in a couple of games I took over to try to revive a country from imminent death...and it didn't work, of course...

but I am new to this site, and I don't know if these games will vanish from my list on their own? or is there somewhere I can remove them myself?

Thanks!
Jim
3 replies
Open
abab (1312 D)
02 Aug 08 UTC
Draw request - game1team2vs2vs2-6players
Please Kestas, could you draw the team game game1team2vs2vs2-6players?
There are currently two surviving teams: England+Russia and Austria+France.
The two teams are facing at a stalemale line, so we agreed to draw, as confirmed in the global chat of the game.
8 replies
Open
DeliciousWolf (112 D)
02 Aug 08 UTC
New Game: No Fleet Builds 1 - Variant
Only One Rule: 1. No Player may build fleets.
This means that if all your starting fleet(s) are destroyed you're stuck as a land based power. Yes, this means you too, England!
14 replies
Open
DeliciousWolf (112 D)
02 Aug 08 UTC
Join "Peace of Westphalia"
A game of cunning and intrigue. Phases: 18 hours Bet: 30 pts
4 replies
Open
DeliciousWolf (112 D)
02 Aug 08 UTC
Slow Saturday?
Seems like a very slow Saturday around here in the forums and games- what happened to you all? Your not actually *gasp* outside enjoying sunshine ?
4 replies
Open
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