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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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brainbomb (325 D)
05 Jul 17 UTC
Why shouldnt North Dakota have a nuclear weapons programme?
The US has nuclear weapons. We got silos and shit all over Montana/ND and SD. Who are we to say that North Dakota is not entitled to secede and have their own nuclear arsenal?
20 replies
Open
JamesYanik (548 D)
12 Jul 17 UTC
Digital forums and free speech
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40577858

i think we all understand the implications of this: twitter is a digital forum open to the public, but it's also privately operated and it has set rules. the decision on this case is going to have sweeping effects on the internet and internal law alike
4 replies
Open
LeonWalras (409 D)
12 Jul 17 UTC
(+2)
Webdip Conservatives have convinced me my world is flawed.
I had always suspected it might be.
1 reply
Open
michael_b (192 D)
12 Jul 17 UTC
Board Pieces World Diplomacy 2017
See Reply
7 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (795 D)
09 Jul 17 UTC
IndyCar and Nascar vs F1 and Touring Car
Why are American motor racing events based on going around and around and around an oval circuit with no difficult turns or chicanes or anything? So boring.
5 replies
Open
Marneus_Calgar (0 D X)
01 Jul 17 UTC
(+3)
Diplomacy Survival Game!
Each person may non-consecutively take one point from one nation to another.
110 replies
Open
Carebear (100 D)
01 Jul 17 UTC
WDC 2017 in Oxford
Just curious, which webDiplomacy regulars will be going to WDC?
105 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (795 D)
04 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
Why shouldn't North Korea have a nuclear weapons programme?
The US has nuclear weapons. The UK does. France does. China does. Russia does. Israel probably does. India and Pakistan might also.

Who are we to say that North Korea is not similarly entitled?
55 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (795 D)
09 Jul 17 UTC
Right-wing twit shoots himself while protesting non-existent event
This is too funny:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/a-guy-accidentally-shot-himself-after-a-fake-news-story?utm_term=.njLwQbNKZ#.eqGX3AoMy
Jamiet99uk (795 D)
09 Jul 17 UTC
A horde of right-wing gun-toting white nationalist nutbags showed up to Gettysburg to "counter-protest" a fake, non-existent antifa protest that wasn't happening...

...and then one of them shot himself by accident.

Yay guns!
Yay the Confederacy!
Mercy (2124 D)
09 Jul 17 UTC
You watch buzzfeed?
Bladerunners (1049 D)
09 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
Lol. If the USA wants to be seen as less bigoted about anti- terrorism - they'd deport these nut jobs
jracademia (332 D)
09 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
It is against our Constitution to deport them, as they are citizens. That said, it is a pretty sharp rebuke of our education system.

Jamiet99uk, I'd perhaps suggest that, instead of funny, it is tragic. I disagree with pretty much everything those fools believe in, but I do not wish them ill. I just wish they would learn without having to shoot themselves first. We should all wish them swift recovery, and a willingness to be enlightened by their experience.
brainbomb (325 D)
09 Jul 17 UTC
I wish for them to be banished to Ravenloft
orathaic (1009 D (B))
09 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
Internment? I mean, if its ok to do it to japanese-american citizens, why not white supremacist nut-jobs?
ND (879 D)
10 Jul 17 UTC
Only the Democrats advocate internment. Right wing people have a right to exist like everyone else.
Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
10 Jul 17 UTC
(+2)
@ND: Incorrect. Trump and the GOP want that now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/us/politics/japanese-internment-muslim-registry.html
Jamiet99uk (795 D)
10 Jul 17 UTC
@ND: Please state that you disown any Republican movements against immigrants.
ND (879 D)
10 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
@Jeff: Incorrect, Trump has never given a policy speech about forcibly interning millions of Muslims like FDR did with the Japanese-Americans and Wilson did with Italian and German Americans.

@Jamie: What is a Republican movement against an immigrant? If you mean, do I disown people who identify as Republicans and target immigrants violently? Absolutely. I condemn violence. Unlike *some* people on this forum I stand against violence and violent actions always and never support violent actions towards other political parties/movements like *some* people on this forum do.
JamesYanik (548 D)
10 Jul 17 UTC
@jracademia

"Jamiet99uk, I'd perhaps suggest that, instead of funny, it is tragic. I disagree with pretty much everything those fools believe in, but I do not wish them ill. I just wish they would learn without having to shoot themselves first. We should all wish them swift recovery, and a willingness to be enlightened by their experience."

um... they were actually gong to a free speech rally in reaction to suspected antifa actions in the area.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/07/01/man-accidentally-shoots-himself-gettysburg-park-rally/446142001/

so, is what you're against free speech?

@JK

"@ND: Incorrect. Trump and the GOP want that now.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/18/us/politics/japanese-internment-muslim-registry.html"

this is verifiably wrong. even in your own link the guy denies that. if you don't like the idea of a registry (which i don't either) attack THAT. it's idiots like you who exaggerate EVERYTHING trump does, making actual conversation impossible
JamesYanik (548 D)
10 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
and to the person who +1ed JeffKuta's post, actually READ it first. his comment that Trump and the GOP want interment camps is entirely inaccurate.
ND (879 D)
10 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
I am pretty sure Jamie is against free speech, but I don't want to speak for him. Good points James.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
10 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
@"Unlike *some* people on this forum I stand against violence and violent actions always and never support violent actions towards other political parties/movements like *some* people on this forum do."

So you categorically disavow all those (from both the republicans and democrats) who voted for the war in Iraq?

What about Afghanistan (which started out as a message to the Afghani government, "turn over bin laden or we'll return you to the stone age" and within about three weeks had turned into "we must affect regime change in Afghanistan")
orathaic (1009 D (B))
10 Jul 17 UTC
(Also, i imagine internment camps would be very expensive, (i brought up the idea, mostly jokingly... And didn't ascribe it to Trump, though i may have implicitelly ascribed it to "things which made america great in the past (sic)")

I imagine instead the 'exile' option is more Trump's style - because deporting people is likely cheaper in the long run, or at least seems cheaper than internment to Trump and his team - though i think it is rather short-sighted.
orathaic (1009 D (B))
10 Jul 17 UTC
Instead of focusing on the specifics (i don't care what Trump tweeted yesterday, or what some poor guy's malfunctioning gun did - hope he's ok and able to afford healthcare).

Lets look at the more general case - internment is an example of depriving people their rights (The right to a fair trial, and the right to 'freedom' - specifically freedom of movement...). This much we agree on - we'll get to the 'whos doing it' in a bit.

But it is only one example of depriving people rights. In the general theory of racialisation, liberal nations actively racial groups so it is easier to deny those entire groups their rights.

You will note that in the example of Japanese internment, it was targetted at ALL japanese americans, regardless of who they were, or why they were in america (or anything which might be used as evidence in a fair trial).

The theory asking why liberal nations use racialisation (thinking of it as a piece of political technology, a tool) and the answer is that in liberal nations, by definition, we extend certain rights and freedoms to all people, but some people are seen as a threat, and granting them these rights is problematic, thus if we are going to deny them their rights they must be made to feel like 'not people' or like 'the other' in order for the rest of society to accept taking their rights away - ie if non-Japanese americans felt 'this could happen to me next, they are just like me' then the internment would have sparked massive destabilising protests. So you first have to make sure the people felt that japanese americans aren't 'just like me' - ie Othering.

Ok, so far not too contraversial, right? Japanese-Americans were seen as a threat, and we understand why, and they did have their rights infringed.

But what about the who? Well above it is clearly democrats. But in general, it is people in power - and the implicit comment above suggests that democrats aren't like republicans - but i will claim this generalises to people in power in liberal nations regardless of party affiliation (i'm not going to back up that claim, you can research this theory yourself if you want to learn more).

So taking this as understood (you don't have to agree with it, just understand). What other examples of racialisation (or 'Othering') do we have? Well there is clear evidence from Donald Trump's political campaign of Othering Mexicans and Muslims (and he's current a person in power, so i'm citing these examples). So are they having their rights denied??

Well that depends on what rights people have. One is the right to seek asylum, i believe Trumps travel ban (at least as originally proposed) does infringe this right. (The are also seen as a threat)

Does 'the wall' infringe on rights of Mexican (and other south/central americans) from exercising their rights? No, it does not; despite a history of immigration, which the US has largely profitted greatly from, there is no right to move there. Are mexicans being 'Othered' and are they seen as a threat? That is a definite yes, and a maybe.

For a little bit of balance - Obama also deprived people of rights - he murdered many (including some american citizens) with drone strikes - clearly wrong from a rights perspective - he most targetted 'suspected terrorists', thry were Othered as Muslim extremists by the media, they were largely in the Middle East, Somalia(?), Afghanistan and Pakistan. They were seen as a threat. (Depriving them of the right to a fair trial and the right to life).

All fitting nicely with the theory. Except there is some small differences, internment and blanket bans on asylum seeking are 'group punishments' - you treat everyone the same, regardless of evidence against an individual. Drone strikes *may* be based on evidence, and may target individuals (and the families/friends who happen to also die are collateral damage). They may be based on evidence against individuals, and while Muslim extremists have been Othered, it is possible to claim that Obama didn't target them indiscriminately (Though i am hesitant to make this claim, when 'evidence' of terrorism may include holding a mobile phone which was once used to ogranise a terrorist attack). Thry are still being deprived of rights...

So while i acknowledge a difference between treating entire groups as if they are the same (muslim ban/japanese-american internment) and targeting specific individuals (which doesn't require Othering an entire group - though i sure makes things easier). Denying right is wrong regardless, so i'm happy to criticise both Obama and Trump.

In the most general case, i condemn those who use racialisation to Other people (the responce from racialised groups to come together and form a racial identity to protect themselves and make it something for them to be proud of, is not something to condemn, it is a survival responce, and so when you see Black Lifes Matter getting Black people out on the streets to protest the unfair treatment of people of colour this is an example of the reaction to racialisation and discrimination... I don't condemn people for this, largely because A) they aren't in a position of power, so they can't abuse that power, B) they are not denying rights to others, they are fighting to have the same rights as others, and C) the were 'attacked' and Othered first, so this is a defensive and survival strategy).

So with that as a background, 1) i don't care if it was democrats or republicans denying people their rights, it is still wrong - and they are the political parties in powet, 2) Othering or Racialisation is wrong and leads to a breakdown of social cohesion which harms everyone - regardless of specific rights infringement i will still condemn this, and 3) blanket (negative) treatment of groups without regard for the individual (by people in power) is harmful, lazy, and ignorant; i condemn it strongly.

orathaic (1009 D (B))
10 Jul 17 UTC
Having said all that, if Trump pulls out of foreign conflicts and NATO, works with Putin in Syria, and becomes strongly isolationist, that may be great for the rest of the world.

But racialisation within the US may still be used as a piece of political technology.
eturnage (500 D (B))
10 Jul 17 UTC
It would be great if the USA abandoned the notion of empire. Sadly, both major parties seem to be clinging to the idea with all their might. I assume their money masters are directing.
Bladerunners (1049 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
@orathaic. didn't this nutjob lose his 'right to movement' when he shot himself in the leg? Ha
JamesYanik (548 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
i thought one of the big things people hated about Trump was that he was CUTTING ties with the international community and NATO... but that's empire building? he's more like a nationalistic isolationist who lashes out a lot
brainbomb (325 D)
11 Jul 17 UTC
Those right wing twats eh
orathaic (1009 D (B))
11 Jul 17 UTC
@JY abandoning trade relations (which were fundamental to the US policy post-WW2) seems like a bad thing to European nations (who benefitted greatly from the Marshal Plan).

So there are two sides to this, and people will pick whichever perspective suits their worldview.

On the one side, most nations which have been trading heavily with each other since WW2 don't go to war, so withdrawing from trade seems aggressive and bad.

On the other side, the US didn't just rebuild Europe and Japan (along with other economies) for the laugh, the US had reached a point of massive production - because of the war - and percentage wise this was larger than probably the rest of the world combined (because the other industrialised nations had been destroyed by the war). So the US needed someone to buy all the shit it was now to produce but not consume.

Thus you can see the Marshal plan as a new form of Imperialism, it created client states in europe and asia (and perhaps to a lesser extent south america, i'm a bit hazy on that).

So yes, withdrawing from this kind of Imperial project (because in the long run US industry has declined, at least comparatively - the US no longer produces more than Germany, Japan, the UK and China combined) is odd to call Imperialism.

On the other hand, Trump telling NATO countries that they need to pay for protection (whether that means their own military, or buying US arms??) is an attempt to strong arm nations into obeying US desire - which may signal a new direction for the Imperial project, rather than a simple rejection/end to it.

And yes, people will throw words around and cone up with vague rationalisations to justify whatever thing they've cone up with. So it can look paradoxical - if you don't see all sides, include the one i'm proposing in this last paragraph (also remember you are also 'people' as described by this last paragraph...)
orathaic (1009 D (B))
11 Jul 17 UTC
**where 'paying protection' sounds very much like a mafia shake-down. Except if you actually look at the Saudi deal, it is unclear whether Trump 'forced' the Saudis to buy lots of high tech weapons, or whether the Saudis got a massive discounted deal from the US... Probably depends on spin the journalist/historian you read puts on it...
orathaic (1009 D (B))
11 Jul 17 UTC
@"Bladerunners
@orathaic. didn't this nutjob lose his 'right to movement' when he shot himself in the leg? Ha"

Touché.


24 replies
VashtaNeurotic (2394 D)
08 Jul 17 UTC
Vash's Point Giveaway
Guys. I have too many points. I need to get rid of them. Who wants to take them?
14 replies
Open
acamer4 (1022 D)
30 Jun 17 UTC
(+7)
diplomacy reality show concept
Hey everyone, I wanted to share these "test run" episodes I made of a reality show about a game of diplomacy. http://www.diplomacyshow.com/about.html
40 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
03 Jul 17 UTC
Happy 4th
For him, Independence Day is a celebration of genocide. A number of tribes and nations contacted for this story expressed various levels of discomfort with the holiday. https://m.mic.com/articles/121671/native-americans-have-nothing-to-celebrate-on-july-4#.0sqTmzhvW
146 replies
Open
dargorygel (541 D Mod (G))
06 Jul 17 UTC
1812 and Fireworks and Putin
And NPR
12 replies
Open
Onar (131 D)
08 Jul 17 UTC
replacement russia needed
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=201151
0 replies
Open
Egathetos (212 D)
03 Jul 17 UTC
Question on moves
Unit A attacks an enemy unit. At the same time units B and C support HOLD unit A.
What is the defensive strength of unit A? Is it 2 beceuse it is supported by 2, or is the support wasted because unit A is attacking rather than holding?
17 replies
Open
brainbomb (325 D)
06 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
NPR blasted for tweeting passages from Declaration of Independence
http://www.wsbradio.com/news/npr-declaration-independence-tweetstorm-confuses-some/QOsQcr9EDmyAyb8LUHICeM/
89 replies
Open
brainbomb (325 D)
07 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
Hillary Clinton found guilty on 237 charges
Treason, Money Laundering through her foundation, illegally checking her facebook, illegally deleting an email from a south african prince who left her millions in his will, Regecide, criminal neglect, intent to have intent, causing rising sea levels, orchestrating the murder of rival DNC members, 9/11, and a whole host of other charges ranging from multi-accounting to impersonating Jesus. Lock her up. So glad this criminal investigation paid off.
17 replies
Open
CAPT Brad (40 D X)
07 Jul 17 UTC
Federal Judge Denies Motion Challenging White House Travel Ban
HONOLULU — A federal judge in Hawaii is leaving Trump administration rules in place for a travel ban on citizens from six predominantly Muslim countries.
14 replies
Open
Hippopankake (80 D)
06 Jul 17 UTC
Wtf
I just met a Spanish facist who when we showed a photo of a freedom fighter statue in our country. He motioned a pistol and shot it.
21 replies
Open
Randomizer (0 D)
06 Jul 17 UTC
Hobby Lobby's Christian Values
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/05/us/hobby-lobby-ancient-artifacts-trnd/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/06/us/hobby-lobby-bible-museum/index.html

Hobby Lobby believes their version of the Bible is more important than the law.
19 replies
Open
Manwe Sulimo (630 D)
29 Jun 17 UTC
Is it happening?
Market is acting pretty strange, has it begun?
19 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
06 Jul 17 UTC
Battery free phone
https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6ljt26/batteryfree_phone_harvests_ambient_energy_to_make/
7 replies
Open
Zach0805 (100 D)
05 Jul 17 UTC
(+3)
CNN found the Reddit user who created the WWE wrestling meme
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/04/politics/kfile-reddit-user-trump-tweet/index.html
This is just sad. A news organization so triggered by a meme that they would go after the poor guy and threaten to release identity to get an apology and is still threatening to release his identity. You can argue if it was appropriate that Trump tweeted this but this is not ok. This is freedom of speech and he might get severely punished for it. Apparently CNN never understood that "1984" is fiction.
148 replies
Open
Jacob63831 (160 D)
02 Jul 17 UTC
Hi
Hello
8 replies
Open
Ezio (1736 D)
02 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
I'm all out of things to say
I just wanted to tell everyone that I have nothing more to say.
3 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
20 Jun 17 UTC
On this day...
In 1937, exactly 80 years ago, the women's day massacre occured in Ohio.

'Police' hired to prevent union workers fighting for their rights, killed 16 and injured over 280. Violence is ok, so long as you claim to represent the state...
25 replies
Open
orathaic (1009 D (B))
05 Jul 17 UTC
Shock tactics, and how to resist them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w44lApffH30
Naomi Klein, on Trump and shock tactics.
0 replies
Open
markradar29 (389 D)
05 Jul 17 UTC
Takeover Russia
Would anyone like to take over for me in Quevega?
0 replies
Open
Ezio (1736 D)
03 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
The most official MAFIA game ever.
Mafia 29.5 "Totally not a popularity contest or RNG"
25 replies
Open
Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
03 Jul 17 UTC
(+1)
OFFICIAL MAFIA XXX SIGN-UP THREAD
See inside for game details.

52 replies
Open
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