@Ogion

it TRIPLED? that's bullshit, it's gone up but that's been nearly 5 years AFTER the gun ban was struck down. your comment makes zero sense

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/chicagos-murder-rate-is-rising-but-it-isnt-unprecedented/

furthermore, MY gun SPECIFICALLY is threatening your family? no. if someone hits one of your family member with a machete, are we banning big knives too? you see, what happens to you, doesn't mean innocent 3rd parties should give up their rights to self defense.

and those "toys" are the greatest equalizers on earth. funny how the media never runs the story on the woman with concealed carry who's shoots an intruder or would be rapist. maybe the local news picks it up but after a 24 hour news cycle it's gone. but you don't care about whether or not the government turns tyrannical one day, and whether or not we can stop it. in fact, many of your policy proposals seem to lean to the fascist end of things, always more more more government.

Yes, Ogion, watch out for burglars bringing a car inside your home in order to threaten you. Gee, Ogion do you think I should explain the much used "safety assessment tool".. The good old risk matrix. I don't think I will bother, the "pro gun lobby" are possibly unique in their ability to studiously & stubbornly ignore what is generally self evident.

in the confines of a house, i'd much rather have a pistol than a rifle. depending on the architecture, and the number of corners in the house. or would i rather have a shotgun?

ohhhh i know. i want a car. with PEPPER SPRAYYYY

Guns are the issue not cars , cigarettes, drugs, even poor menta health..

But if you do go down that Road for give the pun .

In the US in 1800 there were a lot less motor vehicle deaths than now so less cars = les car dearths .

Less guns = less gun deaths .

not that hard really is it .

240mil car 230 mil guns Some one I thinkJmaes mentined eralier.

yes but a much greater number on cars per day are being used in public spaces than guns so the car to gun death ratio is a distraction tatic.

And no I do not defend drunk drivers who cause accidents ..personal experince of that issue ..but that is a different issue and should have its own thread.

the number 1 reason for the gun ban was in reaction to a mass shooting, and so far there haven't been any mass shootings since, but it's a very small sample frame of time, only about 20 years, and they've NEVER been common in Australia anyways. I hope your country doesn't see anymore though.

yes no incease in Mass shootings ...kinda my point thanks..

@smokey

i was speaking in reference to that WashPo 538 guy, and it's kind of my point... Australia with much more isolation to weapons smuggling and also a culture without many mass shootings before hand:

your point was not just no increase in mass shootings, it was no increase in mass shootings as a result of the gun ban. THAT has yet to be determined. at least, according to the statistics.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/i-used-to-think-gun-control-was-the-answer-my-research-told-me-otherwise/2017/10/03/d33edca6-a851-11e7-92d1-58c702d2d975_story.html?utm_term=.b1b5c32ebfc3#comments

We will. There have already been a couple since Las Vegas which was mass shooting #273 in 2017

That's not a joke. That's for real. Only the very big ones get reported

For Americans, that's acceptabl

Since we clearly do accept it and make no move to bring that number down

Wrong as usual.

How many of those "mass shootings" were gang related?

My guess about 250 of them.

So to stupidly say that we make no move to bring that number down is flat out ignorant.

The Police are out there working hard every single day to reduce gang violence, but the same liberals who make the stupid statements above also want to strip the police of their ability to bring down the number of gang related crime and shootings.

An independent site called Mother Jones has taken out gang related activity as well as armed robberies from what is reported as "mass shootings" and has come up with only 67 incidents going back to 1982.

You know, facts and stuff.

And out of those 67 shootings, 50 are reported as having prior mental health issues.

But of course you don't hear the liberals campaigning for improved mental health funding and care.

Cause that doesn't fit their single minded agenda.

flat out ignorant.

single minded agenda.

Wrong as usual.

That's not a joke. That's for real.

just too hypocritical to admit it.

@ KANSAS re prior mental health issues ..that is as relavant as if the person was left handed , blue eyed , black, had a limp All of that is just blurring the facts around mental illness/ health.

The vast majority of poeple living with long term server mental illness are VICTIMS of crime and not perpetrators. People go for the wow that behaviour was not what I would call normal so it must be mental illness. I am sick and tired of people increasing stigma and knowing fuck all about mental health and waving that flag about. The vast majority of normal people will have a mental illness in their life , most recover if supported and not stigmatised whilst they are unwell. Look up the vermont studdies on Schizophrenics a longitudinal study that took people for the wards of mental health institutions and said the be clasified as " well" they had to hold down a "normal job, interact in society in a manner that people would not know they had schzophenia and had to be off all medications and had to sustain this for a mininimum of 5 years ...over 60% recovered to this standard given proper support and not being labeld as " crazy and dangereous " by fucktards who know little abput mental heath. More recovered if you remove one of those mandatory factors. Recovery is not an absense of symptom btw it is manging those symptoms and living a fullfilling life form te POV of the perosn with the illness.

I will get off my Mental health podium now. and get back to gun law..

as to the Gun stuff A different topic. Why not iclude the gang shootings dont they involve guns and are easlity accessed by unlawfull types due to lax attitudes on guns in the US. I do understand that a lot of pro gun people either see themselves as the new mitiia or minutemen..but really.

If you cant one shot an animal when hunting 80% of the time or if you work in the rural sector and need a gun ..you dont really need one.

And yes I am for the rifle ranges having bigger guns AK's military garde weapons..but they stay at the range and let people who enjoy that shooting and the " cowboys " not always the same ..to enjoy that sport whilst reducing risk to others ..

"The vast majority of poeple living with long term server mental illness are VICTIMS of crime and not perpetrators"

The vast majority of legal gun owners are law abiding citizens who harm no one with their guns.

But you have no problems lumping them in with gang bangers and criminals.

And if you had read what I had written completely, which it appears you haven't, you would have read that I wished for the extra mental attention to help ease the stigma attached with getting mental health.

But I guess since the vast majority of people with mental health problems don't commit crimes we shouldn't address it more or try and help those people more?

I commned your asking for extra menatal health supports but the fact that MH is even mentioned simply promotes stigma in the uneducated and fearfull causing incredible harm to people living with Mental Illness.

you do not appear to be one of those deliberatlely perpetuating the stigma..Its just part of my job role to really advocate on behalf of those who are unable to at the moment.


The vast majority of legal gun owners are law abiding citizens who harm no one with their guns.

I dont dispute this. BUt also indisputable I belive if we remove the argumnet about mass shooters gang bangers and just focus on law abiding citizens who have hunting accidents ( genuine) and accidental shootings of others including 2-3year olds getting hold of a gun . Then surely you can concede that making it much more difficult to get and own or more importantly keep a gun in your home is something that needs to be changed.

Or is one innocent life lost by gun accident a price you are willing to pay. ?

If so..

I truly hope and pray to what ever god you hold dear that you never have to pay that price with you acidentally shooting a loved one..

Are there any stats that show how many of the

" The vast majority of legal gun owners are law abiding citizens who harm no one with their guns." Have saved a life by shooting an intruder against how many accidental deaths have occurred in the same
" The vast majority of legal gun owners are law abiding citizens who harm no one with their guns." group.

Can you check that out KANSAS.

a bit of Irony I use a CANSAS as part of my work in mental health.

Camberwell Assessment of Need Short Appraisal Schedual.

Patient: "Hey doctor I have trouble sleeping at night."
Doctor: "what is the problem?
Patient: "all I do is toss and turn and dream i am a wigwam and a teepee."
Doctor: "I know what your problem is, you're two tense".

One life? Try 30,000 a year as "acceptable" cost of their toys.

The mental health bullshit is just deflection. Sure, let's deal with mental health issues. Let's improve public mental health care (which republicans basically eliminated in the 1980's) and institute universal health insurance coverage to pay for it....which conservatives also oppose. If the mental health issue were a genuine concern rather than a fake bit of gaslighting, they'd support that

Long story short, to be a conservative you have to be willing to sacrifice tens of thousands of people's lives every year to your misbegotten ideology

Under President Ronald Reagan, the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act repeals Carter's community health legislation and establishes block grants for the states, ending the federal government's role in providing services to the mentally ill. Federal mental-health spending decreases by 30 percent.

But
Deinstitutionalization began in 1955 with the widespread introduction of chlorpromazine, commonly known as Thorazine, the first effective antipsychotic medication, and received a major impetus 10 years later with the enactment of federal Medicaid and Medicare.

and:
Signed into law by President John F. Kennedy on October 31, 1963, the Act was the first of several federal policy changes that helped spark a major transformation of the public mental health system by shifting resources away from large institutions towards community-based mental health treatment programs.

Still:
In California, for example, the number of patients in state mental hospitals reached a peak of 37,500 in 1959 when Edmund G. Brown was Governor, fell to 22,000 when Ronald Reagan attained that office in 1967, and continued to decline under his administration and that of his successor, Edmund G. Brown Jr.

his successor, Edmund G. Brown Jr.
hmm..... the current governor!?!