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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
14 Jun 16 UTC
Classic Game LF5M
A user has asked me to advertise their anonymous game which includes two coworkers.
5 replies
Open
brainbomb (295 D)
14 Jun 16 UTC
(+2)
Glass Eating: What is your favorite glass eating experience?
Im looking to get into competitive glass eating. Was wondering if anyone on webdip has done this and what the best venues are for glass eating.
12 replies
Open
rm63 (100 D)
13 Jun 16 UTC
NEW ENGLAND PLAYER WANTED FOR WWI TEAM GAME!
England has gone into civil disorder so we need a new English player. This is a team game where the allies (Britain, France and Russia) fight the axis (Germany, Austria and Turkey).. England has missed a couple of phases but is still in a good position. The game ID is 179879. It is called "World War One team game". The password for the game is "shellshock". Once you have joined have a look at the other thread on the forum called "WWI team game" to get familiar with the rules.
8 replies
Open
MKECharlie (2074 D(G))
14 Jun 16 UTC
Fencing: What is your favorite weapon, and why?
Also, if you're American, did you vote in the recent USFA election? Do you think it'll have any affect on the tournament selection process in the New Jersey division?
6 replies
Open
JEccles (421 D)
14 Jun 16 UTC
New Classic Game
Just started this up. 50 point buy in, anon, 1 day phases.

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=180213
0 replies
Open
c0dyz (100 D)
14 Jun 16 UTC
Farewell
Farewell kind folk. Summer approaches and my school friends and I will depart from the merry making until next year.
3 replies
Open
principians (881 D)
07 Jun 16 UTC
There are muslim creationists too
An I found very funny that they deny the big bang too https://www.scienceislam.com/pdf/Big_Bang.pdf
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Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
07 Jun 16 UTC
(+1)
"There has never really been any solid evidence for this idea of 'something out of nothing' concept."

- Yet Allah was not created.
TrPrado (461 D)
07 Jun 16 UTC
Yes, there are. They're about as fundamentalist as Christian creationists. Yusuf Estes is a Salafi, which is similar to the Wahhabis in that it is fundamentalist, but the difference is pretty well summed up by Yusuf Estes himself, as he doesn't think it's lawful in the eyes of God to go around murdering people the way Wahhabis do.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
07 Jun 16 UTC
"There has never really been any solid evidence for this idea of 'something out of nothing' concept."

Lol. This is a really funny thing to say. It's maybe the only thing there is solid evidence for.
peterlund (1310 D(G))
08 Jun 16 UTC
(+1)
It's simple! There are idiots everywhere. :/
Lethologica (203 D)
08 Jun 16 UTC
(+1)
Oh, do people call them muslin creationists? I just call them weavers.
TrPrado (461 D)
08 Jun 16 UTC
Well, I don't think anyone calls them "muslins," I mean most people have another "m" on the end of that word instead of the "n." So I guess the answer overall to your question, Leth, is no.
steephie22 (182 D(S))
08 Jun 16 UTC
I don't understand how this fact isn't extremely obvious. Of course there are muslim creationists too.

@Jamiet99uk: That doesn't actually refute the claim.
@Thucy: Do you think so? What's that solid evidence?

I'm no muslim. I just don't recall ever seeing any solid evidence on this subject. Something that directly contradicts the thought that there may always have been something and there never was nothing to create something out of.

I'd love to be pointed to the evidence, genuinely.

It amazes me that you guys pick this particular quote to refute. It looks like a solid argument to me, while there's enough to bash fundamentalists on.
Octavious (2732 D)
08 Jun 16 UTC
@ Steephie

I vaguely recall from studying quantum mechanics that virtual particles are constantly winking into and out of existence. Of course, whether that counts as something from nothing depends an awful lot on what your definition of nothing is.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
08 Jun 16 UTC
I believe that the discovery of the big bang was hailed as evidence of Islam (and perhaps by others) as evidence that they were right and have a superior religion (but maybe i'm thinking of evolution, not the big bang... can't find any direct evidence right now.) See below:

Quoting from a missionislam.com

"The origin of the universe is described in the Qur'an in the following verse:

"He is the Originator of the heavens and the earth."(The Qur'an, 6:101)

This information given in the Qur'an is in full agreement with the findings of contemporary science. The conclusion that astrophysics has reached today is that the entire universe, together with the dimensions of matter and time, came into existence as a result of a great explosion that occurred in no time. This event, known as "The Big Bang" proved that the universe was created from nothingness..."
orathaic (1009 D(B))
08 Jun 16 UTC
@Octavious, there is a great discussion of nothingness here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNh-pY3hJnY
Octavious (2732 D)
08 Jun 16 UTC
WedDip Daily News:

Big fuss over nothing in forum!
steephie22 (182 D(S))
08 Jun 16 UTC
@Octavious: I don't know at what level you studied it (maybe I learned the relatively simple version so far), but my understanding is that a single partical can be at multiple places at once, and where it is is undecided until the result is measured (very short version). But this is more like a division: there's a certain likelihood that it's in one place and a certain likelihood that it's in another. It doesn't stay in some permanent multiplied state or something. It's still one particle you're studying.

You still don't 'create matter' in that sense. The total mass doesn't increase or something.
steephie22 (182 D(S))
08 Jun 16 UTC
Particle jeez how did I not think of that.
principians (881 D)
08 Jun 16 UTC
@steephie, I'd say you'r right. We could consider the arguments of Lawrence M. Krauss, but we'd need to debate whether his notion of 'nothing' really means *nothing*. That besides the fact that those kind of arguments are far from mainstream.

However I'd answer to the quote this thread has selected by saying:

Big Bang theory IS NOT about 'something out of nothing'
orathaic (1009 D(B))
08 Jun 16 UTC
@Steephie, there is an idea from quantum mechanics that 'nothing' is full of virtual particles, spontaneously created and destroyed; and that space itself can come from these quantum mechanical fluctuations.

However, this still starts out with the laws of quantum mechanics, which some people will argue are something. What exactly your definition of 'nothing' becomes pretty important.

@Principians "Big Bang theory IS NOT about 'something out of nothing'" - Krauss does indeed argue this, because of the negative potential energy, (or gravitational pressure) it is possible that all of space and the matter /dark energy it contains has a total energy of 0. And thus with energy-matter being conserved, it is possible to create a universe from nothing.

Or more to the point, if a universe is created from nothing, it would have to look like this one, in at least that sense.

However everything science can ask questions about is limited to this 'something' we exist in. You can't measure nothing. You can't look at it an see it. you can come up with whatever theory you want to test about, and still get no data of information supporting your claim.

The energy arguement, however, falls down to how you define zero energy. Which is pretty tough, like what is the zero point, mostly we deal with energy changes - so moving a satellite into orbit (for example) we go from low gravitational potential on the earth's surface to high gravitational potential in orbit. But where is the 0 point of gravitational potential energy? We also go from 0 kinetic energy (and velocity) to a high orbital velocity. But where is the 0 kinetic energy? I mean we can be relatively stationary and have 0 kinetic energy compared to the earth's surface... but it is moving... So i don't know how to measure the universal energy and decide where to set the arbitrary 0 point... Which i wish i could find someone discuss in terms of Krauss's theory.
principians (881 D)
08 Jun 16 UTC
@Orothaic, but the point I wanna make is that 'Big Bang' does not refer to that time t=0 discussion.

All it's about is cosmological model of universe evlotion which, and the only true implication is that there was a time where things were compressed in an extremely hot and dense environment, but does not try to make predictions about plank instants after the 'origin'. Those are more speculative theories with lots of variants (inflation theory, for instance, does not propperly belong to big bang theory).

And there was not an 'explosion', btw.
orathaic (1009 D(B))
08 Jun 16 UTC
I take your point. Entirely, it doesn't say anything about the 'nothing' that existed at t=0

inflation theory, however, i think is necessary or at least felt necessary to explain the observations of uniformity across the universe of tiny fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background. That only if we had inflation in the t=0 -> t=1/320,000 seconds (i think) could there be the same density/temperature across the billions of light years we can see (from one side of the sky to the other)

But even with inflation - which i think is the current accepted best model - you are still correct that we don't have any evidence for some infinity density singularity, our models completely break down and become useless. (and i suspect that until we have a coherent theory of quantum gravity they will continue to fail)

You seem to be accepting the theory as it stood in the 1920s, and is now generally accepted. But we've definitely made progress since the 90s... Yes, the 1920s big bang theory doesn't include inflation. Modern discussions usually include cosmological inflation, i think.
steephie22 (182 D(S))
08 Jun 16 UTC
I have my own theory on this, I don't know how similar it is to Krauss'. I also don't know how I'm going to explain..

To make it abstract, perhaps think of a number with a value of 0 on a piece of paper (what that value means is irrelevant. You 'name' it 0, even if it could be 5). There's a simple 'law of nature' that your piece of paper has to follow: the net value of all values on it is 0.
The number tends not to change on average, but occasionally, it can get a little higher or a little lower. Say a 1 is generated. That can't just happen without anything else happening, because now the law of nature of your piece of paper is violated. Now you start to wonder about what 0 is. 0=-1+1 among other things. What this means is that you only need to take -1 out of the 0 to turn it into 1.

So that's the only action that happens on your piece of paper: -1 is taken out of 0. As a result, the 0 just became a 1. That minus one you took out though, that's still on your piece of paper! So now you suddenly have 2 'things' out of 'nothing': 'something' and the exact opposite of that 'something'. In a way though, you still have only one number that really matters to you, because who cares about anti-matter?
It's not over though: 1 is suddenly taken out of -1! Now you have this on your piece of paper: 1, 1, -2.
Suddenly you have 2 'somethings' while you had only 1 'nothing'!

What I'm saying is that my theory is that 1 'nothing-particle' could, very rarily, be substituted for a particle and an anti-particle. Which could go different ways under the right circumstances. When there are no other particles around, perhaps.

Compare it with waves. You can have a horizontal line, very boring. Then you take a wave out of it. Suddenly you have two waves: the one you took out and the one that's left over in the line, which used to cancel out the wave you took out, which is why there was a horizontal 0-line to begin with!

Interesting experiment just entered my head, so ending this reply now.
steephie22 (182 D(S))
08 Jun 16 UTC
There's no real dilemma if you give everything (and nothing) a value, really. Of course, you don't know whether you can just do that and that doesn't really explain the mechanics. What takes -1 out of 0?
Octavious (2732 D)
08 Jun 16 UTC
Mountain climbing is really easy. You get some uphill sections, and some downhill sections, but on average it's flat.
principians (881 D)
08 Jun 16 UTC
@steephie I think you've nicely synthezised Krauss' idea.

@Orothaic. Lol, I live in a lagging country, but I sometimes manage to have access to inthernet you know?
When I say that inflation does not properly belong to big bang theory, I don't mean it's not generally accepted. What I mean is that it's not part of the core of the theory, it's an addendum to explain a detail of the observed data where the original theory has nothing to say. But if inflation happens to be wrong, big bang wold not be affected at all.

And the consensus is not as global as you seem to think. Despite the great explanatory power of inflation, it has BIG problem: the only evidence it really has is the very fact it's trying to explain. Maybe if that BICEP's experiment had actually observed gravitational waves from the big bang, instead of the heat of tea cup, every dingle physicist would have accepted the hyptothesis by now.

But, of course, LIGO still keeps hopes alive.

Here's a very beautiful blog by the way: https://briankoberlein.com/
steephie22 (182 D(S))
08 Jun 16 UTC
I think it's a bad thing to consider any of this more than theory. Even if there's consensus that it's the most likely theory, I think it shouldn't be accepted as truth.
CommanderByron (801 D(S))
08 Jun 16 UTC
(+2)
With many awards including several people's choice awards; as well as 9 current seasons the Big Bang Theory is pretty hard to refute. Mr.Parsons does a stellar job alongside his extremely talented cast. I argue that anyone denying the Big Bang theory exists is simply jealous of its success. In regards to the religious affiliation of those denying the Big Bang I would figure that as an unimportant factor; almost verging on racism by this forum.
TrPrado (461 D)
08 Jun 16 UTC
^^^^^^^^^
Lethologica (203 D)
08 Jun 16 UTC
I was going to ask why anyone likes sitcoms anyway, but this forum is basically a sitcom and I'm still here so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
orathaic (1009 D(B))
09 Jun 16 UTC
@Princip you said "When I say that inflation does not properly belong to big bang theory, I don't mean it's not generally accepted. What I mean is that it's not part of the core of the theory, it's an addendum to explain a detail of the observed data where the original theory has nothing to say. But if inflation happens to be wrong, big bang wold not be affected at all."

You're right about a few thigs, it may not be iniversally accepted, and it may be proven wrong, and the big bang theory can survive without it, maybe (without inflation, you need to show some other explaination for the uniformity... Though i kinda don't understand why you can't simply have a uniform initial state which slowly spreads out... Maybe you can explain that)

But i do think you would say that inflation is part of the big bang theory, at least as we currently understand the theory. If the evidence it tries to explain is right, then without inflation we need a sligthly different big bang theory. A new appendix as you put it.

@Steephie, you 0 model is perfectly fine. But the question is whether it counts as nothing, what is this nothing particle you have defined, does it have any physical properties? Because even having the property of being able to seperate into -1 and 1 would disqualify it from 'really' being nothing - at least in some philosopher's eyes.

Or maybe some meta-physicists eyes.

But if it is really a '5' and the entire universe came from '5' then it is not nothing. I'd really love to know if there is a sensible way to measure the absolute gravitational potential energy of the universe, it seems like something i should have learned in college...
steephie22 (182 D(S))
10 Jun 16 UTC
Yeah I'm assuming you have at least one particle, anti-particle, nothing-particle, potential particle, whatever. One space the size of a particle that can have a 'value'. I don't care whether that's something or nothing.

It has other implications which are potentially more interesting though. I just decided not to post them, figure stuff out for me first and see whether any of it is novel.
steephie22 (182 D(S))
10 Jun 16 UTC
I don't think I've ever heard of absolute energy and I wonder if it's a thing.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
10 Jun 16 UTC
"Do you think so? What's that solid evidence?"

Do you sense existence right now? Yes? That's all the evidence you need.
Thucydides (864 D(B))
10 Jun 16 UTC
It doesn't get more solid than that. Your evidence is your consciousness itself, which predates all other possible evidence

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65 replies
Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
11 Jun 16 UTC
Sanders voters disenfranchied in California
Anyone in the US know how accurate this report is?

http://www.gregpalast.com/california-stolen-sanders-right-nowspecial-bulletin-greg-palast/
18 replies
Open
rm63 (100 D)
06 Jun 16 UTC
New World War I team game - played as 2 teams. Starting soon!
I've been wanting to do this for a long time. I'm not sure if it's been done before. Apologies if it's already been done. I've created a game called "WWI team game" and the idea is that we will recreate world war one by playing the game as 2 teams; the triple alliance consisting of Austria, Germany and turkey and the triple entente consisting of England, France and Russia.
31 replies
Open
brainbomb (295 D)
12 Jun 16 UTC
College World Series
Starts June 18th. Definetely as far as atmosphere it is among the finest sports events in the country every year. And its right here in Omaha.
3 replies
Open
ssorenn (0 DX)
09 Jun 16 UTC
3 game gunboat tourney
post here or PM me if interested
22 replies
Open
SLOTerp (100 D)
11 Jun 16 UTC
NWO: Mushroom clouds forecasted in coming year.
The NWO game at Redscape is about to get a bit radioactive. If you haven't seen or played this massive variant, take a look. The GM and a few players put out some high quality press as well.
http://www.redscape.com/viewforum.php?f=141
0 replies
Open
Musoeun (133 D)
10 Jun 16 UTC
(Poll) How Many Draws Equal a Solo
I'm working on a project (may submit it to a zine, may just be for my own amusement) and I'm trying to find out what various Diplomacy communities view as the relationship in accomplishment between draws and solo victories.
20 replies
Open
Hamilton Brian (760 D(B))
09 Jun 16 UTC
Revisiting the Key Lepanto that works
I want to see a game where it actually worked.
17 replies
Open
brainbomb (295 D)
07 Jun 16 UTC
Stanford Rapist
Ok can someone who understands law explain to me how this guy got off so easy?
60 replies
Open
VirtualBob (242 D)
09 Jun 16 UTC
Ghost Forecast?
Just wondering.
5 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
10 Jun 16 UTC
(+1)
Pet Peeves
It's pouring, the parking lot is flooding, and they just turned on the sprinklers for irrigation.
7 replies
Open
Bob the Lord (292 D)
08 Jun 16 UTC
Looking through some old games...
and I noticed that there was some feature called "All survivors win" from a game in 2010, why doesn't that exist anymore, why are there no units, and what are the rules?
3 replies
Open
CommanderByron (801 D(S))
09 Jun 16 UTC
quality game
gameID=179917

PM for PW
7 replies
Open
Gen. Lee (7588 D(B))
27 May 16 UTC
Gen. Lee to host 2016 Confederate Grand Ball
Invitation inside.
22 replies
Open
Bob the Lord (292 D)
07 Jun 16 UTC
I know I did this before...
and that this is a forum on a webdiplomacy site that is meant for people to talk about random non-diplomacy based things, but what's everyone's favourite country?
21 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
08 Jun 16 UTC
Mel Carnahan 2016
They did it once, we can do it again!

#StillWithMel #RatherVoteForTheDeadGuy
0 replies
Open
pauldocument (0 DX)
08 Jun 16 UTC
Buy real and fake Passport ,Visa,Driving License,ID
Guaranteed 24 hour passport,citizenship,Id cards,driver´s
license,diplomas,degrees,certificates service available. Tourist and
business visa services available to residents of all 50 states and all
nationalities Worldwide.Contact [email protected].
1 reply
Open
peterlund (1310 D(G))
05 Jun 16 UTC
(+2)
Likes and Liked question
On my profile it says "Likes: 1 / Liked: 29" but I do not know what that means. I did not find anything about it in the help/FAQ pages either. How does it work? How do I like another account?
4 replies
Open
Bertson95 (119 D)
03 Jun 16 UTC
Any suggests for a new player?
I've plaied something like 10 games and i'm not sure my way of playing is good.

Any suggests for improving?
8 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
07 Jun 16 UTC
(+1)
Daily Bible Verses
Look, buddy - this is the word of the Lord.

http://the-toast.net/2016/06/06/bible-verses-where-behold-has-been-replaced-with-look-buddy/
0 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
07 Jun 16 UTC
(+1)
Remember that story about the Ukranian pilot that downed MH-17?
Refresher
https://www.rt.com/news/217295-mh17-ukraine-military-plane/
https://www.rt.com/news/216871-ukraine-military-mh17-report/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/25/mh17-russia-claims-to-have-airfield-witness-who-blames-ukrainian-pilot
3 replies
Open
peterlund (1310 D(G))
04 Jun 16 UTC
(+3)
Gordon Brown "Lead not leave"
An excellent and important statement for civilisation:
https://youtu.be/gPX9MLALjAE
9 replies
Open
Al Swearengen (0 DX)
30 May 16 UTC
(+1)
The Truth about Matthew Shepard
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/26/the-truth-behind-americas-most-famous-gay-hate-murder-matthew-shepard
11 replies
Open
Valis2501 (2850 D(G))
11 Mar 16 UTC
(+2)
The 2016 Local Tournament - Round 2
The full ruleset is available here: https://tinyurl.com/webDip2016local-rules
111 replies
Open
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