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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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SandgooseXXI (113 D)
03 Jul 14 UTC
May it stay forever strong
Interpret the above statement below:
8 replies
Open
mapleleaf (0 DX)
01 Jul 14 UTC
zultar, the american, is missing the point.
I actually SUPPORT my american neighbors and envy their freedom.
105 replies
Open
denis (864 D)
03 Jul 14 UTC
Two units bounce
SO two units Bounce each other in a territory, say Munich and Burgundy bounce in Rurh during Autumn of 1904, can another unit, say Belgium or Kiel then retreat into that Territory during the Retreats Phase of Autumn 1904.
5 replies
Open
mapleleaf (0 DX)
03 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
For forum users, please read this here thread.
It's way better than the other one. lol.
34 replies
Open
Maniac (189 D(B))
03 Jul 14 UTC
Well I for one am glad they're dead.
Peter Allen and Gwynne Owen - hope you don't rest in peace.

In my opinion hanging was too good for them, maybe the electric chair would have been more fitting.
7 replies
Open
zultar (4180 DMod(P))
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+12)
WebDiplomacy Community & Freedom of Speech
Please read.
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zultar (4180 DMod(P))
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+13)
As I have said previously, I am for freedom of speech. There are a lot of posts that people cringe and grimace and I just kinda shrug, but that does not mean that anyone is allowed to post anything on this site. If you can find a site that lets you do that, please feel free to use their forum to post anything and everything that you wish. This site, at its very core, is a site for Diplomacy games. The forum is a plus and for many, it is a source of knowledge and experience about Diplomacy. When it becomes a reason why people leave, it's problematic, and people don't leave because they merely disagree with each other's ideas but because of the vitriol on the forum.

We have had a number of users who had quit our site because of the forum. We have had multiple users email us asking for forum moderation because though they love our site, it's extremely hard for them to see all the hate posted. We have had mods who quit because of the forum. We currently have mods who put in their time to do game modding but have more than once wanted to quit because of the forum.

Do we expect to see people step in when someone is being abused verbally or physically in public, or do we say ignore it and block it out? Not all things in the physical world translates to the online medium, but I hope our sense of decency would. We do have the mute button and I as well as Kestas and the mods have encouraged people to use it, but it is not a fix all button and it is not a substitute for building a community. When Kestas made me a co-owner of the site, one of the things that I agreed to do was to take charge of the forum and try to grow the user base, which is what I am going to try to do.

It is a fine balance between establishing a community and having freedom of speech. It is not worth it to be able to say whatever you want at the expense of no community, and it is not worth it to have a "community" that does not have much to say to each other. Neither extremes are wanted or desirable. So, my goal is for us to build a community where people are free to discuss and disagree with each other and where we are free to express ourselves which includes the use of colorful language, but not a community where people can continually abuse community members, which also includes the moderators, and spew whatever vitriol that comes to their mind. If you do not feel that such a community is worth having or that a forum without complete 100% freedom of speech is worthy of your time, you are free to not be part of it.

I completely agree with Eden's sentiment: "I think we as a community need to do a better job of treating everyone with respect, regardless of how vile their politics might seem to you. We're adults, we can do better than this and we should."
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
Long post that says nothing. Not trying to be an ass, but if you're posting about the forum and how we post, and you say "There are a lot of posts that people cringe and grimace and I just kinda shrug, but that does not mean that anyone is allowed to post anything on this site." and then not give any guidelines for what can and can't be said.

Personally I don't think any restrictions are necessary. It takes no effort to mute a user or hide a thread, and if someone gets so obscenely vile action is required, that's what abgemacht and the other moderators are for.
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
Are we navel gazing again while the World burns.
I'm pleased that a lot of people here have nothing more important to worry themselves with, it must be great
Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
I think this thread should be seen as a gentle warning. I note that Zultar has publically issued a warning to Mapleleaf in Maple's annoying thread calling Zultar out. I personally hope to see other such warnings if certain usual suspects continue to pollute the forum with their toxic shit.

Chaqa - the mute function does not solve these problems, and a lot of people don't use mute, because it renders lots of threads unreadable, as has already been discussed at some length.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
The first rule of thumb here ought to be that you can't rejoice over death, which is why we're having this discussion. I don't think you have to write that down; I think it ought to fall under common sense, but apparently not.

If the common sense rule seriously doesn't cover the things we discussed in the other thread, then that rule needs to be used as a catch-all, and the moderators and admins, who are all reasonable people that represent both ends of the spectrum when it comes to heavy and light moderation, need to come up with a way to private discuss forum topics that come into question with that rule and then need to privately discuss with the OP (or person in question) what the collective staff opinion is on the matter. Hell, you can even go the court route and write dissenting opinions if you'd like, but this kind of thing ought to be discussed privately with each individual situation.

Don't get me wrong, I love it that you guys are willing to ask us mortals what we think on these matters, but this is your decision and your responsibility here is to take charge so that the situation can be dissolved and my days staring blindly at the forum can go back to normal.
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+2)
"because it renders lots of threads unreadable" - that's the point? You hide threads you don't like.
NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
02 Jul 14 UTC
I like that little headline thing ..... someone abusing his power already :-)
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
02 Jul 14 UTC
Yeah, get rid of that. It's annoying.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
It'll be gone tomorrow.
President Eden (2750 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
@Chaqa, broadly speaking, what we're saying is that serially abusive people may be silenced for longer periods of time, pending individual circumstances. The main case study is mapleleaf (the thread that this branched off of has details), who's been just utterly vile for seven years now. Chasing after people in other threads to harass them, starting "satire" threads gloating about kids' deaths (when, if we're being real, they aren't "satire" at all), completely out of line, and again, for seven years and after a multitude of efforts to curtail it through other means. It's a strong step, and not one that would be taken without careful consideration; people can expect polite requests and stern warnings first. And it's reserved for the absolute bottom. Most users can probably expect not to run up against it, because most users are sane, respectable human beings.

In essence, the staff's previous efforts over the years in dealing with serial offenders have been... rather inadequate. It's obvious that mapleleaf has been emboldened by years of getting away with his shit, and the clear solution is to draw a line and enforce it.

This is coming from someone who's absolutely supporting of self-moderation as the primary means of problem-solving here, too. I've been pretty clear about it in the other thread. I think that's the better solution, where it can be enacted; and I think in the overwhelming majority of cases it can be. But some people just won't stop -- mapleleaf as an example. For those who won't, the staff wants to reserve the right to take more forceful action, since we haven't previously had it.
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
See, that stuff doesn't bother me. If people are going to let themselves be bothered by the ranting / complaining / attitude of some douche on the internet, that's their problem. I have had feuds with various players (most notably thehamster) and my solution was to mute, because I don't have to deal with it. Seems pretty simple. If everyone muted mapleleaf, he'd have no audience.
President Eden (2750 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
And specifically, it's FOR being abusive -- which again, is something we haven't explicitly restricted before. To be honest, there's no reason why mapleleaf should ever have been able to get away with following Draugnar into a thread and saying "Lance Corporal Fagnaur, U.S.M.C., <insert vile thing here>." Now staff is claiming the right to take action for it and to say, officially, that we don't condone it and won't allow it.
Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+2)
@ Chaqa: "because it renders lots of threads unreadable" - that's the point? You hide threads you don't like."

No, you've missed the point. If you mute a user, they are muted in *every* thread. So even threads you don't want to mute, and which may contain discussions you're interested in, are spoiled because you can see the comments of people responding to the points of people you muted. Quicky, any discussion in which a muted user is involved can become impossible to follow.

I've used this example before, but here it is again... Imagine the user "BOB" says something horribly offensive in a thread, and you mute him. Now imagine he participates in a *different* thread, as follows:


JEFF: I think Snoop Dogg is great. His music is the best.

BOB: I prefer Eminem.

JEFF: He is my favourite white rapper.


Now, if you had Bob muted, it would look to you as if Jeff thought Snoop Dogg was white. Instantly, because you muted one user, another user's comments make no sense. That is the problem with the mute function. Geddit?
SYnapse (0 DX)
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+2)
"We have had a number of users who had quit our site because of the forum."

Names please, because I don't believe this. And mods quitting isn't exactly boo-hoo material.
Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
Go away, SYnapsse. Zultar is Kestas now. He doesn't answer to you.
Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+2)
Is there a way to filter messages in the forum? It seems it is a free for all with all topics under the sun legitimate for conversation. That's fine and dandy, but I am not interested in ANY discussion here that doesn't directly relate to Diplomacy or the web site.

I kind of want to hide the forum from my home page because I am tired of the continuous spam by between flamers and trolls on the feed. Can we maybe have a handful of filterable topics so your average lurker like me doesn't have to bother with the ranting? Thanks.
CommanderByron (801 D(S))
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
I think an obvious fix mods may want to try is to format the forums in a way that forum posts are categorized. I used to develop websites for game clans we used webs.com , on webs the forums could be categorized so for example there would be categories like: Diplomacy Game advertising , Diplomacy discussion, user questions, and miscellaneous. This way users who wish for pure diplomacy know to use the diplomacy discussion and game advertising while other conversations are on the misc forum. it would clean up the Forums, makes moderating easier (literally assign a moderator to each forum) , and still entertain the part of the community who likes the off diplomacy conversations.
President Eden (2750 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+2)
The problem with "well just let them mute people" is that we're running off both valued members of the site and prospective newcomers, too. Several respected members of the community have left over the years due to the vitriol on the forums; I took an extended leave of absence in 2013 in part because of it, myself. The message is clear: we choose mapleleaf or we choose these respected members. And they've got a compelling case for bringing that decision to us. This shit IS vile and SHOULDN'T be tolerated. And if we as a staff, and as a community, have any sense of integrity, that choice is clear. mapleleaf's antics shouldn't be tolerated at the expense of valuable members of the community.
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
Here is the thing Chaqa, most people don't use mute. I did an analysis of it using SQL, and the number of active forum users who used the mute user feature is significantly lower then 50%.

While it's great that it doesn't bother you, that shouldn't be the judge of whether or not a post is over the line. There are people in society who aren't bothered by serial murder, namely other serial murderers. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be illegal.

From my understanding Zultar is only planning on taking action against people who are consistently unreasonable and who refuse to tone down their speech when asked.

As abge so succinctly put it last year, this site isn't a democracy. The main goal is to provide a site for people to play diplomacy, the forum is a secondary function that should not detract from the main purpose of the site.

@SYnapse, I'm going to pretend...for your benefit...that you're not calling the co-site owner a liar. If you are then I suggest you go find a site with whom you and the owners share similar viewpoints.
SYnapse (0 DX)
02 Jul 14 UTC
I'm not calling him a liar, he may be mistaken.
Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
@ Byron, Jeff - the mods are not developers. Kestas, the original site owner (and now co-owenr) is the only developer, I think.
SYnapse (0 DX)
02 Jul 14 UTC
And it would help for me to understand how important forum moderation is, if I knew the extent of the effects.
President Eden (2750 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
"Names please, because I don't believe this. And mods quitting isn't exactly boo-hoo material."

If they're important members of the community, they count just as much. And I left for a while well before I joined staff, so there's one.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
02 Jul 14 UTC
@Jeff ... People have proposed adding forum categories in the past but right now the only option is to mute individual users/threads.

@SYnapse ... You really need a sense of what's private and what's not. They don't have to disclose that kind of information, so stop asking for it as if the mods and admins are executing some great coverup. Besides, users leave all the time. I could name a few that still play but don't post and I could name some that went to a place like vDip that basically has no forum, but it's not my business to tell you why they left.
SYnapse (0 DX)
02 Jul 14 UTC
Thanks for at least offering me some information, Eden. But I think you would agree that one person quitting the site isn't exactly worth a policy change. No offense intended.
dirge (768 D(B))
02 Jul 14 UTC
While many of us have taken advantage of the freedom of speech here to some extent or another, I for one can live with the idea of reasonable limits. Watching the many half baked threads is amusing in some kind of childish way, but really, if results in a poisonous atmosphere repulsing good diplomacy players, then, by all means, put a cork in it.

And, by way of suggestion, I don't think anything is going to change if all you're going to do is post "gentle warnings."
krellin (80 DX)
02 Jul 14 UTC
Syn - you can't prove a negative...unless you are good and just assert it is true under punishment fo the ban-hammer... :P
jmo1121109 (3812 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
Well on the second point you made here is the problem with mods quitting. The mods are the only people who keep your games from being full of cheaters. On average there are 35-55 multi's who join every two weeks. On average a moderator will take between 10-15 cases every 2 weeks. So we need at least 4 moderators to handle the new cases. If you want to add in the time to find old multi's who haven't been caught yet, the time handling non-multi issues like tournaments, and then add in the forum you need a team of 5-7 mods. So having mods quit over a secondary function of the site, when they are really needed on the primary purpose of the site is really quite a shame, and is "boo hoo" material.
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
02 Jul 14 UTC
@jmo: I don't think it matters what he's implying, he has a point. Saying "several users have quit because of this" and then not giving the names... makes me think there are no users.
krellin (80 DX)
02 Jul 14 UTC
@MODS: So - I ask this selfishly, as well as to help others guage what is acceptable: How close, with my current, as-of-late behavior, is old krellin to the Mighty Silencing of Rah...er...I mean Zultar (All hail Zultar! Huzzah!! Huz..blah blah blah)

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231 replies
CommanderByron (801 D(S))
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
College
So I am a high school graduate, and a college student come august. While I am aware of the benefits to college; I am curious as to how college or lack there of has affected anyone else. Looking for more perspective.
74 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
03 Jul 14 UTC
(+3)
You Guys....
I love you guys. All of you. No. Really! I do!! <smooches>

Here's to a brighter, kinder me...
19 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
02 Jul 14 UTC
The Quantum Shift
...<chew on this>...
19 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
03 Jul 14 UTC
Help for the Overly Sensitive
I a further effort to help those insensitive...er...I mean overly sensitive virgin eyes that enjoy this blessed place, please avail yourself of this wonderful protective gear:
http://www.woot.com/offers/protect-yourself-1?ref=cnt_wp_9_3
5 replies
Open
SantaClausowitz (360 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
Changing your mind
Is it a sign of weakness or strength.
25 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
02 Jul 14 UTC
Need A Replacement For France
I'm looking for an active, respected player to partner with the remaining French player in our Dummy trial game (gameID=143236). If you aren't familiar with this game, each country has 2 players that equally share control (press, moves, etc). Let me know if you're interested.
6 replies
Open
SYnapse (0 DX)
30 Jun 14 UTC
Ramadan
Anyone else doing this? I was challenged by my Muslim friends at work, damn I'm hungry.
98 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
02 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
Whiny-A** B*tches!!
http://online.wsj.com/articles/new-york-court-strikes-down-cyberbullying-law-1404239912?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories

That's right, you are all a bunch of whiny ass bitches and there's not a damned thing you can do about it. Suck on that :P
12 replies
Open
Sevyas (973 D)
13 Mar 14 UTC
(+1)
2014 - 7 games wta series
As the initial thread is closed but the tournament is still running, here a new thread for general tournament announcements, pause requests, ranking, ...
Let's keep this one alive

Old thread: http://www.webdiplomacy.net/forum.php?viewthread=1092719#1092719
124 replies
Open
FineRedMist (108 D)
30 Jun 14 UTC
(+1)
Who's the least intelligent puppy-kicking child-fucker on this forum?
A) Draugnar
B) krellin
C) ssorenn
D) FineRedMist
65 replies
Open
ILN (100 D)
02 Jul 14 UTC
Nice game if you're interested
Don't know if this is spam or not, not selling paintings or anything - just a recommendation.

Link and description below:
1 reply
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
30 Jun 14 UTC
Hobby Lobby
The US Supreme Court has just (ten minutes ago) upheld Hobby Lobby's right, under religious conscience, not to provide contraception coverage to its employees.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/13-354_olp1.pdf
152 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
26 Jun 14 UTC
(+2)
Proportionate response?
Earlier this month, three Israeli teenagers went missing in the occupied West Bank. Israeli authorities allege that Hamas abducted them. Hamas has stated that this is untrue and that they are not responsible.
217 replies
Open
semck83 (229 D(B))
29 Jun 14 UTC
Cuba
Has anybody been? Is it this bad?

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/sunday-commentary/20140627-the-last-communist-city.ece
63 replies
Open
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
01 Jul 14 UTC
(+1)
True Friends Stab You In The Front EOG
gameID=142294

Thanks for the game, everyone. Not particularly well played by myself; I made at least 2 serious blunders and probably should have been eliminated, but it was still great fun.
15 replies
Open
tvrocks (388 D)
01 Jul 14 UTC
sitter needed
i'm going on a 4 day camping trip (against my will by the way) next week starting monday. Please post if you can.
12 replies
Open
Chaqa (3971 D(B))
23 Jun 14 UTC
7 player, 7 games series (gunboat)
Just looking for 6 other players. The goal will be to have 7 games with the same 7 players. Been done many times, I know. I'll be scrutinizing the people, so only decent players (no noobs, sorry).
62 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
29 Apr 14 UTC
(+3)
Mafia General Discussion Thread
Single-thread resource for discussion of mafia games on webDiplomacy. Please remember not to comment in here about specific ongoing games!
424 replies
Open
President Eden (2750 D)
01 Jul 14 UTC
(+5)
Can we stop with the hate circlejerk threads?
This is as a member of the community not a mod, but there's been two threads today calling out specific members and inviting flaming. It's really old and just degrades the forum discourse. Please stop? Thanks <3
30 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (1307 D)
23 Jun 14 UTC
Anti-jokes
Let's have your best anti-jokes. Here are a few:

Q: Why didn't Jesus play hockey?
A: Because baseball and soccer are much more popular sports in Mexico.
54 replies
Open
italiathad88 (0 DX)
01 Jul 14 UTC
live game
Join my live game (5 min) "Derbyshire"Starts in forty minutes.
Or email me when you plan on playing live.
[email protected]
I will play live games to your specification as well.
2 replies
Open
KingCyrus (511 D)
01 Jul 14 UTC
(+2)
Did anyone miss Putin33?
After a couple of days, and seeing him participate in a few heated arguments, I ask the population of webDip. Did you miss Putin33? I know I did. Whether for laughing at him and his ideology, glad of a champion of your ideology, someone to defend Russia, or someone else to call krellin names, who had SOME reason to be glad he is back?
27 replies
Open
krellin (80 DX)
01 Jul 14 UTC
Hate on Soccer
http://townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/2014/06/25/americas-favorite-national-pastime-hating-soccer-n1855817

Who loves Coulter! Gotta love this.
7 replies
Open
denis (864 D)
01 Jul 14 UTC
Replacement for Germany LIVE GAME
http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=144052 Germany left
1 reply
Open
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