can we just play that instead. I feel like if it takes more than 5 days to review a setup it should be skipped. lol.

heres how you review a setup.

1. open word doc
2. look at how many PR vs scum
3. correct numbers if necessary.
4. profit.

Umm we're not close to being done, we're starting so early to figure out ideal balance (to the best of our ability at least)

It's also not that simple brain.

Yeah it's not that simple brainy.

@ Brainbomb: "@Jamiet did you learn anything watching how various people played this game?"

I learned a bit. I noticed that I'm not the only one who comes across as slighty scummy when they're actually a VT. For one example, look at how ND loudly demanded everyone acknowledge how he had "PROVED" Peterlund was not the Inventor when, in fact, Peterlund was the Inventor. Exactly the same behaviour as in the previous game when he repeatedly crowed about having PROVED that I was lying about the gunshot when, in fact, I was telling the truth.

Identical behaviour, except that in one case, ND was scum, and in the other, he was a VT.

It also amused me how some people get really annoyed when other people don't play the game the "right" way - i.e. they way they feel it ought to be played. Several people refused to engage with Vecna's prose-style posts in the first half of the game, and even accused him of spamming or said he was not contributing. Yet in fact, Vecna's stories were filled with reads and information.

Yeah, but I didn't really push that Jamie. Quite a difference I think.

I just found Vecna's posts annoying and stupid, I don't think he was playing the "wrong" way.

I figured he was a PR, I just didn't really care. His reads and supposed information wouldn't have mattered until after he was dead, but even so, he wasn't killed by the mafia so it was hard to gleam much from it.

^ because of that thing jamiet just stated I almost had suicided on ND at the last night

I'd felt like we were playing PeterLund pretty well and I still don't know how I suddenly became a suspect... Actually, I feel like that second day would have gone very differently if more people were online at EoD (myself included). I won't be playing another game with the same phase end times, it's just too early for me.

And I don't appreciate the 'veteran' vs 'newb' mentality that I've seen going on. For example, HR and Maniac played like crap this game but were never really given a second thought! Everyone seemed to prefer to take a risk on jailing the newer guys because those veterans are supposedly more valuable in the end game.

This time around the newbies actually happened to be mafia but I did notice that they were considered expendable even if they flipped town. I'm happy to participate in another round of Mafia but if I see this sort of pattern continuing then I'm not sure I'd play again. It just puts too much power into original rolls and somewhat neuters smart play.

Basically, I'm just claiming that I only got lynched because I was seen as expendable and easily wagonned and not because I made a mistake :P

Idk why you were a suspect, but my hands were completely tied. Me voting for you and you flipping scum was the only way that EOD wouldn't wreck me completely.

Nah Flood, you were legit scummy, and your guys kill on Moscow made us think there was a newbie mafia. It didn't have anything to do with vet vs. newbie beside that kill being an obvious tell of the experience level of the scum team.

"Maniac played like crap" - Floodgate. You may be right, but in my defence I did advise prior to the game I would be MIA early on. As I drew cannon-fodder I was then hoping my lurking would be interpreted by Mafia that I was a PR trying to avoid attention. I haven't read Mafia thread, so don't know if that was true.

Do we have God/Mafia thread links?

Did I play like crap? I barely read the game and yet nailed both you and xorxes off of that terrible wagon on me D1, after all, Flood...

I just didn't play in general because by the time I was free to do so town were already dominating so well that I didn't need to put the effort in :P

"Did I play like crap?"

Sorta.

@flood - fwiw, the use of terms like "newbie" and "vet" might have more to do with the number of games played here, not a judgment of actual skill. Considering the timing and the circumstances, I thought you played well.

ALSO: wow *I* played like crap. Was there a reason I was getting scumread besides lurking so much?

Yeah, you scumread me on a cherrypicked analysis and kept trying to ask everyone else for approval.

The reason I pushed your lynch Floodgates is not because you are some newb. I am sorry if the new players are being bullied. I pushed your lynch to save Chaqa and Vash; two players I admire and respect as known meta assets to town (when they are town).

In that situation I felt they both were town and you were dodgy as your wagon grew. You played well and were definetely not my top choices until there was not many options.

As for @Vecna, I think you overplayed the PR breadcrumbs. I can see why. desperado ideally is a suicidal maniac role. I can see why youd be baiting scum to nk. the problem was your style of posts was off putting and I admit.... I never read any of them. I felt they were long and lacked real game related questioning.

I feel there was no mvp this game. Town players bo_sox, TrPrado, turned in magnificent towny performances. other than a blip where I got away from myself and looked into them being scum I dont think either of those two ever were actually scummy. I think with a trio of townclears and a host of softclears we essentially all worked overtime and began to trust one another.

None of the town players were a hindrance to the process. None of the scum were able to manipulate town into pushing town v town lynches.

For the most part the entire town was MVP. Nobody stands out as the towns hero like M19, M18, M17.

GOD thread: http://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/VTnGPCGZXNh

@Chaqa - You got incredibly lucky then, because that kill on Moscow was directed by xorxes. Read the Mafia QT if you don't believe me :P

@HR "I just didn't play" - That's my point.

@brainbomb - You just contradicted yourself...
"The reason I pushed your lynch Floodgates is not because you are some newb. I am sorry if the new players are being bullied. I pushed your lynch to save Chaqa and Vash; two players I admire and respect as known meta assets to town (when they are town)."

You didn't push my wagon because I was a newb, you just pushed it to save two players that weren't even townread by yourself for the majority of the game. You chose to lynch me (a relative newb) over the others (veterans). That's the point I'm trying to make - I was considered expendable even though you didn't scumread me. And how do I seem more dodgy the more my wagon grows? That just doesn't make sense! This is Mafia and the size of a wagon should be a warning flag, not a green light :P

I don't know if anyone was townread by brainbomb for the majority of the game.

True that :P

Yea and honestly I just wanted to make sure we werent forgetting anyone. Floodgates my point is after Day 1 I DID TOWNREAD chaqa and vash. I begged people not to lynch them as I thought after how D1 ended they were town.

How you townread Chaqa after D1 is beyond me.

Well I was town, so he was correct. I would never get so close to a teammate and risk myself like that. I'd be bussing him hard

@ ND: "Yeah, but I didn't really push that Jamie. Quite a difference I think."

Not much difference I can see. Both times, you had no proof at all. Both times, you repeatedly shouted about how you had "PROVED" the thing of which you had no proof. I want people to take note of this now - ND enjoys lying, whatever his alignment.

Chaqa D1 is just like how ghug and DemonOverlord got left with their pants down D1 in M19. seriously same thing. Chaqa pushed me hard D1 as I was playing oddly. his reasoning felt towny.