@y2k,
I can appreciate why you didn't like my initial case against wjessop. It was extremely weak. Given the more recent interactions and my new case at the top of page 8 do you still dislike the case against wjessop?

I'm definitely not sold on it. i don't view his vote on DO to be nearly as reactive as you do, primarily because wjessop cited similar reasoning that leads me to think DO is scum. sure wjessop hasn't been as active as in past games as scum, and that actually tells me he's not doing his mafia move of flooding the thread with unnecessary bullshit. i have a slight town read on wjessop.

I've read back through a bit of this, but not all yet. I'll catch up on the remainder later - Minecraft: Story Mode just released here so I'm going to go play that (yeah, yeah, I know it's Minecraft, but I'll buy and play pretty much any Telltale game :D).

However, I'll highlight something that really stands out to me in the opening of the game, and that's Yoyo's start. He comes in, places his voted on me with very little reasoning, then claims it's for lurking (2 hours after gamestart and while I'm asleep), then says that Guak needs to die before Guak has even posted, only 8 hours after gamestart.

I'm used to the policy lynch discussion at this point. It still annoys me, but it's not something I necessarily see as scummy - it really depends on who's proposing it - if it's someone like Ghug or Bo, then it's a pretty standard opening to most games that I've learnt to ignore. If it's someone I'm not used to getting the proposition from, that's usually somewhat suspicious - especially if they've played multiple games with me before and haven't done it. I don't recall Yoyo ever being a proponent of the policy lynch before, so why is he trying to start one now? Answer could be that a policy lynch can be an easy mislynch.

This part of his slightly later post also stands out:

"I don't think people realize how dangerous they are to town as they are. If Flum didn't scan captainmeme last game, he would have slipped through the cracks, and while he was on my scum list, I don't think I could have typed a compelling case against him with how little he contributed. If he's the godfather, we've pretty much lost."

This doesn't sound like town Yoyo at all. From my experience playing with him, Yoyo is always extremely confident in his ability to scumread (and is oftentimes correct), even with lurkers, as he did last game. He's never really bothered with trying to get lurkers lynched early before because he knows he can still find mafia amongst them.

##VOTE YOYOYOZO

@all

So id like to point out that wjessop used "2am in the UK" excuse yesterday. The sun rose and set on London since there, and wjessop hasn't said a word all day. I wonder what he's doing

##vote wjessop

Also, for god's sake, VTs should NEVER claim PRs. That could end in a counterclaim, then a VT lynch, then the PR dies. It's a mafia move, not a townie one.

wjessop has definitely posted today; Toemato. On the very last two pages...

Its not appearing for me @hellacinic riot

Could be my connection though ill keep refreshing

@Toemato
Wjessop did actually post a couple pages back when I scum read him.
Which is the crux of my case against him. He is following the thread enough to notice that he was mentioned. Shows up and defends himself and then returns to lurking.

I'm not sure why people are town-reading him.

Anyone who has town read him want to explain why they are town reading him?

i already explained, what do you think of my reasoning?

Toemato, you can't seem to say things that are true....

i highly suspect an effort by the mafia to get wjessop lynched right now

@everyone in response to balk I'm gonna answer the questions.

I'm 18 I'm working on getting my ged. This is my first time on mafia. I've skimmed the other games. And I'm fairly new to diplomacy.

"sure wjessop hasn't been as active as in past games as scum, and that actually tells me he's not doing his mafia move of flooding the thread with unnecessary bullshit. i have a slight town read on wjessop."

Well you didn't really respond to the part of his argument about his specifically active lurking lurking.
But I really, really don't like this argument. You're basically saying, When he was mafia he was really active. Since he is not active in any useful way now he must be town because he is playing different. Since its basically excusing lurking as a sign of town behaviour

@captainmeme
I suggest you read the past 2 or 3 games I've played. I've brought this up before, maybe if you didn't lurk as much as you do, you'd pick up on it. Also, good job OMGUSing and repeating what has been said before. Also noting that 2 of the lurkers began posting within 20 minutes of each other after I suggest that we lynch lurkers.

change "must be town" to "likely to be town" and you're reading my opinion correctly. as it stands, given what i see from wjessop now, and compared with what i've seen from him in the past, i believe he is town. i'm not excusing his lurk (and it's not even that bad of a lurk compared with a number of other players), i'm contextualizing it.

At this point I'd say his lurking is worse than that of most others. Because chances are he is reading the thread. Otherwise how would he know to keep returning to defend himself? Active lurking is a sign of mafia players, generally, since they need to keep the heat off them, but don't want to actually expose their own opinions on other players.

Its possible he's also just been tired, (it was 2am) and happened to log on during a break at work and responded. I'm not set on him being scum. I haven't even put up my vote again for him yet. Largely because I want to give him a full 24hours to contribute productively. Since it might just be he's only had the opportunity to post when he's strapped for time right now.

But as it stands I don't see how you could look at his posting patterns and not see scummy behaviour.

@All: Apologies for my tardiness to the game. I was unable to be there at game start due to class so posted my observations then crashed at around midnight. Then woke up at 6am today and had a full teaching schedule. Tuesday is going to be a busy day for me. However Wednesday’s I am basically free except for one night class (at eod).

@y2k: “without double checking the list of active participants.” (page, 5) So you don’t read the thread?

“my abrupt change is an evolution of a read.” (page 6) So your ‘reads’ can evolve so quickly, reactionary, within the timespan of a few hours within the first day? Please clarify.

@Damian: “I hadn't checked the player list and I was just responding to the case made by DL. I assumed, incorrectly that he knew TrPrado was in the game before making a case. Apparently I was wrong.” (page, 5) So you didn’t check the player list (which is reading the game start post) then you just followed behind DL? Please correct me if I am mischaracterizing the situation? Why would you just follow behind a pusher on a non-existent player? How do you have a mild scumread on someone not playing? This all seems highly suspect to me.

@Balki: “I don’t agree with Damian’s case at all, as WJessop is probably my strongest town read at the moment. While he has not contributed much in the way of scumhunting, and has played a bit defensively, he comes across as fearless, with nothing to hide. I believe that con artist mafia scum WJessop would play differently.” (page, 5) Can you explain why this is the case? Wjessop has made a series of low content, joke posts. Since this is the strong townread you state on your mega post, page 5, I would like greater clarification. Also, “I think that many of our townies” (page 5) can you explain your reads on them as well? All in all this post is a highly disjointed, strange (about what I expected from you because you are a strange person), partial read list.

@Saladin: I agree with your assessment on Wjessop from page 5, but why do you feel the need to state the obvious. Let’s go through that.

1) making words count: duh

2) joke posts are anti-town: usually after page 1, yes

These two points are things that everyone knows who plays this game. Unless you are new. This is the epitome of a low content, follower, post.

@cainam: yhw od uoy peek gnitsop sdrawkcab? This is almost as ridiculous to me as your poetry from last game it’s distracting and difficult to read. I read line by line (while note taking) and am trying to catch up but keep having to stop every time you post backwards to re-word your messages in the correct text format. If it’s rxn ok, but really it is distracting to me. Additionally, you gave a four hour response to this. Did it occur to you that other people live outside the UK? Have day jobs? Had busy nights beforehand? Your rxn is flawed to the maximum degree here. And it seems counterproductive to the town to me.

1) “I posted 4hrs after the game started and wanted to see how active people had been in the first four hours compared to how active they were 4 hours after my post.” (Page 5)

I dispute this simply due to the fact that I had a valid reason for missing the game start which is why I asked to start Sunday in the signup. I had a night class Monday and Wednesday (will miss M/W EOD) and Tuesday is my full teaching day. The rxn is flawed due to the lack of time, and also because it doesn’t take into account people’s schedules outside of this game.

@bo: I stand by the fact that sarcasm is hard for me to reason with online and I would appreciate a editor notation next to line phrasing denoting sarcasm.

@DL: “@ND - It was a combination of skimming through the thread and misreading "Toemato" as "TrPrado" and seeing Prado post in the sign-up thread, which I thought he wouldn't do if he wasn't playing. Oops.” (page 5) So, you confused toemato with TrPrado. Just because they start with the letter “T” does not mean they are the same name. I don’t buy it.

@Toemato: What does “Ok roleplay mode is on.” Mean? Usually when someone says “roleplay” they mean they are pretending or acting something out. Can you clarify?

“Its not appearing for me @hellacinic riot” (Page 9)

How is a forum post not appearing for you? That makes absolutely no sense.

@Espi: Where have you been? You are definitely playing differently than M11 is it because you made so many outrageous statements in M11? The change in play style has definitely been noted, by me.

Observations

I would like to see something other than the usual D1 policy lynch debate that ends with no one following through on it. I can provide a list of names from my catch up read, but this has been mentioned by several people. If you want to lynch a lurker then vote for one and make the case why. It seems like an effort by some of this individuals to phish for interest without actually going through with it and that is suspect. It’s ridiculous that people bring this up every game then never act on it.

@Wjessop: “Equally, I voted for you and DO because your arguments are weak, exaggerating, and conflational.” Explain in detail.

This TrPrado vs Toemato stuff is weird, outlandish, etc and everyone who actually pushed that needs to be examined. I am going to be looking at it heavily in my first reads list which will have a dose of analysis on this. More on this later.

@BB: what the hell is wrong with you? why are you even trying to justify VT fakeclaiming?

Also, to everyone discussing shitty policy lynches that have never ever worked out, you guys are now in my scum list. D1 is always about information. Policy lynches yield no information. End of story. End of discussion. I will be voting for whoever proposes a policy lynch from now on.

Also, at everyone accusing me of lurking, chill dudes we are only at p9 and I already have more posts than all D1 last game. So yeah, take a chill pill.

lol ND "I don't read the thread" get real. i'm sorry for seeing someone vote for someone else and assume that person is actually playing. and yea my reads evolve quickly early on because when i do have reads now, they're on little information, and consequently are volatile.

General game views:

ghug is being an asshole, nothing new here.
meme is lurking, business as usual.
Toemato is oddly confused but as a first time newb I am going with newbness and stupidity is not necessarily scummy
Yoyo is being even more useless than usual, and that is hard to top. Maybe he was so useful last game that he simply had to go full-blown idiot mode on this one to compensate for that? I am still thinking scum, but whatever, it is Yoyo and I always think he is scum. If I find someone scummier I will be glad to switch.
BB is doing shitty proposals just like in every other game. That means that when he gets lynched for proposing stupid things he will haunt whoever led the lynch for the rest of all mafia games just like ha has haunted me.
damian I will keep an eye out for. He showed in his last game that he can act very townie even when he isn't town. It was damn difficult to catch him in that game. So far looks slightly town to me.
HR is being surprisingly useless. I will reread to see why I think this. Maybe there's a case somewhere around here.
y2k seems town
everybody else: I don't remember you. Do something memorable next 9 pages.

@@Damian: “I hadn't checked the player list and I was just responding to the case made by DL. I assumed, incorrectly that he knew TrPrado was in the game before making a case. Apparently I was wrong.” (page, 5) So you didn’t check the player list (which is reading the game start post) then you just followed behind DL? Please correct me if I am mischaracterizing the situation? Why would you just follow behind a pusher on a non-existent player? How do you have a mild scumread on someone not playing? This all seems highly suspect to me.

You are indeed mischaracterizing the situation. While I did not notice his case was for a person who is not in the game. All I said about it was, if he didn't show up that could be mildly scummy. But by occam's razor there is a simpler explanation. He likely just had to run off somewhere. In either event I encouraged people to focus on players who were actually here until he got back.

I'd hardly call that blindly following DL. I made the assumption that nobody would make a case against someone who wasn't playing. I was wrong. While I read the opening post, I merely skimmed the players list. Since I haven't played much or followed whats going on much since M2. Who is playing is meaningless to me.

concerning BB though, i interpret is rationale for VT's fakeclaiming a PR because it would justify mafia fakeclaiming a power role, and when counterclaimed, they can claim VT because "I was following BB's idea". it's a cover him claiming it will confuse mafia.

Guak, is it now your policy to lynch anyone who suggests a policy lynch.

you have a massive tunneling issue y2k, and what part of me being at work did you not understand?

@Damian: Actually, no. "To clarify, hanging around pre-game and then disappearing once it starts is odd behaviour. Prado is a mild scum read from me."

You state "mild scum read from me" (page 2) NOT "All I said about it was, if he didn't show up that could be mildly scummy"

Slip? You are trying to dismiss this evidence and then you say I mischaracterize the situation and make up a totally new quote to explain it. Explain the difference in the quotes and why you felt the need to make something up instead of acknowledging your earlier statements from the beginning of the game.

##VOTE DAMIAN

i'm not tunneling, my view of you is just stagnant until you do something to change my mind.

Judging by some of his pastimes, I'm not sure y2k understands what 'work' is, DO. ;)

I thought the TrPrado/Toemato "misreading" was a joke; and that people had merely expected Prado to be in this game and were surprised when he wasn't. I'm not sure it's all that relevant by now, either. I only realised he wasn't playing when I read it being pointed out, too. It's not a surprise that other people assumed that he was playing; given he played last time and was mentioned so early.

So Yoyo, other than lurkers, do you have any reads here?