JECE -- good god, you can't decipher tongue-in-cheek when you see it, can you?

Moron...I'm mocking the left.

As for the religious reference...I didn't say I believe it or espouse it...ck brought up religion, and that is what the Bible has to say on the matter.

Seriously dude...learn to fucking read and interpret thing IN CONTEXT of the overall discussion.

"Babies live in villages that hide alleged terrorists, under what I would like the call the Draugnar Doctrine they are perfectly acceptable targets for attack. I do not think those babies are directly guilty. "

Um, by the draugnar Doctrine, they are what I called them. Collateral damage. Try reading what I actually fucking wrote. I said "A village hiding terrorists get's wiped out? Collateral damage!" It doesn't get much fucking clearer than that, ya' know?

Back to the old Liberal mantra, “If we could onnnnly save just one more baby’s life….”
And yet, when offered other solutions to save just one babies life…they call you stupid.
1. Eliminate private ownership of vehicles, which kill thousands and implement national transportation systems
2. Eliminate private housing and put everyone in approved government housing, which will limit the load on natural resources, can control sources of pollution, and provide a community kitchen which minimizes waste and feeds the good citizens only approved, healthy foods
3. Elimate private economy and put all citizens to work in government approved jobs producing products necessary for survival of the species. All other excesses abuse the natural resources, wastes energy, and causes pollution which will kill us. Convert all machine labor to manual labor where it can be safely done (such as plowing fields) to provide exercise during work..)
4. Etc…
I can find all sorts of ways the government can act to save just one more baby’s life…

Fact is, a bunch of Middle Eastern terrorists didn’t mind the collateral damage of thousands of Americans AND CHILDREN dying when they started the WAR we are engaged in. Life a bitch…and War is her mother. Collateral damage is jut the way it is. We could go all old school on them an carpet bomb these piss ant countries back to the stone ages (that they have barely emerged from anyway…)

Put that in your pipe and smoke it. That should rile you up good…heh heh…

krellin: When you sound like Colbert and Ann Coulter 24/7, it's very hard to know the difference. If you prefer that I use Draugnar's quotes, I can. My point stands.

Draugnar: It's called a war crime, Draugnar. The U. S. military can re-define international law however much it wants, but the law still stands.

Quote where I said a destroyed village and it's inhavbitants was anything other than collateral damage then. Oh wait! <*snap*> You can't cause I didn't!

Was it a war crime to comb German cities in WWII? Was it a war crime when Germany bombed London in WWII? Was it a war crime when we dropped two A-bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

They should be thankful we only wipe out fucking villages, not entire fucking cities and countries.

krellin: Out of curiosity, how many members do you think Al-Qaeda had on 11 September 2001?

Oh, and we are not bound to your so-called international law. We haven't agrred to it nor are we bound by it. The "international community" can try to wrap their lips around our humongous dick cause we fucking rule the world militarily speaking.

JECE - how many members does Al queda have now? Nobody knows how many members Al Queda had on September 11 because Bill Clinton was ignoring the issue. What's you point, dumbass?

Size doesn't matter when yo are willing to hijack civilian jetliner and use them as weapons. You and anyone who hides you, deserve to die a horrible painful death.

JECE -- I sound like Colbert and Ann Coulter? lol Well, that's pretty damned high praise! Thanks! And I *seriosuly* mean that - it means my satire has a razor-sharp edge to it.

And yet...my point stands: EXACTLY how far do you want the government to go to save just one baby's life, JECE?

I'll tell you what....if killing 10 babies in a terrorist-harboring village means saving my baby's life...drop that fucking bomb! No...DROP TWO!

I don't get why we don't just slag Pakistan and Afghanistan. Sure, they'd be uninhabitable for a while, but there sure as fuck would be fewer terrorists to deal with and it might get the rest of the world in line when they realize we are tired of fucking around. Fuck with the best, die like the rest!

And for those who wonder...

A sailor says "I'm in the Navy"
A soldier says "I'm in the Army"
An airman says "I'm in the Air Force"
A Marine says "I *am* a Marine"

Once a Marine, always a Marine.

Old Marines never die. They just stand at attention for eternity.

Draugnar: Yes, those were war crimes. Even those that say that they weren't war crimes admit that they would be considered war crimes under current international law.

And I was referring to this quote:
"
I've made it pretty clear in my time here that, if it doesn't violate the Consitution, I think the US Government has every right to do it when it comes to foreign nationals. Spy on our allies? Fuck yeah! they do it to us! Torture terrorists and terorism suspects. Abso-fucking-lutely! Wipeout a village that was hiding terrorists. Collateral damage.

After 9/11, my view of the rest fo the world changed. I became a "Fuck 'em all and let God sort 'em out" kind of guy. In the words of my military Alma Mater "Fuck with the best. Die like the rest!" Arrugh!
"

"Wipeout a village that was hiding terrorists. Collateral damage."

Like I said. I called wiping out the village collateral damage. Can't you fucking read?

And as far as bombing cities in WWII being war crimes... No, they weren't. And so long as we don't go Nuclear, we aren't violating the UN charter at all. Although I am of the view that we *should* use the occassional nuke to wipe out a city or country that is being particularly troublesome and reassert our role as the alpha male in this dog pound of nations.

Sometimes it takes a show of force to reastablish the boundaries of a relationship. This is never more so apparent than in the international community. As long as we allow one nation or gourp of peoples to wlak on us, we are showing weakness to the rest and they too, in time, will attempt the same thing. Spare the rod, spoil the foreign nation.

krellin: My point is that the actions of a few dozen wackos cannot constitute a declaration of war from the Middle Eastern people and does not justify state terrorism or military occupations. The same logic applies in the other direction: the war crimes of a few officials in key positions do not justify the massacre of U. S. or Israeli civilians.

And no, Bill Clinton was not ignoring the issue. One of the few pieces of advice he told Bush in the traditional manner as the new President took office was to watch out for Osama Bin Laden. Bush chose to ignore that advice in his few months in office.

I also remind you that Ann Coulter is actually serious, unlike Colbert.

As for your question, I'll just say that since your baby is at no risk from foreign 'terrorists'.


Draugnar: Nope, I'm talking about international law the U. S. agrees with. The U. S. has signed and ratified many treaties. As for developments in customary international law, the U. S. does not repeatedly claim that it doesn't agree with developments. In fact, all it did under the Bush years was shamefully re-define the law so that torture wasn't considered torture, etc., which is impossible.

What the hell are you taking about with Marines and slagging whole countries?

Draugnar: My quote was "Here's your playbook: [insert Draugnar's quote here]" Your playbook is sick and disgusting in comparison with my playbook: "following international law and supporting the United Nations"

"And as far as bombing cities in WWII being war crimes... No, they weren't." Yes they were – in fact the nuke thing is even less clear than that because ICJ advisory opinion on the Legality of the Threat or Use of Nuclear Weapons didn't come to a real conclusion.

"Although I am of the view that we *should* use the occassional nuke to wipe out a city or country that is being particularly troublesome and reassert our role as the alpha male in this dog pound of nations." – That's insanity. You've been playing too much Fallout.

"Sometimes it takes a show of force to reastablish the boundaries of a relationship. This is never more so apparent than in the international community. As long as we allow one nation or gourp of peoples to wlak on us, we are showing weakness to the rest and they too, in time, will attempt the same thing. Spare the rod, spoil the foreign nation." – I'm with the Melians, as should everyone be. It's not worth making further comment.

"Actions of a few"...fine...then stop indicting all fo America for the problems of a few. But...sorry, these pissant countries *openly* harbored terrorist training camps - which is why we'd be righteous is leveling the whole fucking landscape instead of wasting our time with selective bombing. They're LUCKY the collateral damage is as light as it is. Fuck you - quit being an apoligit for terrorist. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Bill Clinton GAVE UP the opportunity to capture Bin Laden on more than one occassion. Enough said...he dropped the ball. He did *nothing* to stop terrorism. Oh...wait...he bombed the shit out of an aspirin factory to defelct media attention from his scandals....does that count?

Ann Coulter? Have you ever even read here, dumbass? She uses parody and satire to make her points all the time. I sincerely you doubt you have actually read her writing - but I assure you, she could argue you in to a hole so fast you wouldn't know what hit you. She's one of the most insightful and *brilliant* commentators out there. She actually uses (gasp....hold on to your undies!!) FACTS to support here opinions.

""following international law and supporting the United Nations"" Is this the same international law that allowed Hussein to have rape rooms? Is the same international law that allows Islamic nations to execute their daughters? Is THAT the international law you are talking about? Or maybe the international law that allows warlords to run rampant over the continent of Africa and murder and steal? That law? Or...I'm having trouble figuring out which righteous international law you mean?

Krellin: The collateral damage is not light at all. And Baathist Iraq was hunting down the Islamic extremists, not harboring them. The Taliban were hesitent to hand over a war hero and were given little time to react to the ultimatum. And what happened when the U. S. invaded? Bin Laden and the rest of the Al Qaeda escaped in the chaos and occupation. It would have been much smarter to send in special forces to capture him than invade the whole damn country and help the warlords of the Northern Alliance in the process.

You're just repeating propaganda about Clinton. And yes, I unfortuantely have heard Ann Coulter (including parts of books on tape). It's funny to hear somebody so crazy if you forget that she really believes what she is saying. That is the humor I was referring to. And no, she fails miserably against debates with peoples who really know what they are talking about.

And all of your examples violate international law.

"The Taliban were hesitent to hand over a war hero"

From terrorist to war hero in 10 words flat... Abso-fucking-lutely indredible. Fuck!

Draugnar: Really, if you really believe what you're saying, you're arguing the same line as a Fascist. In simple terms, fascists believe in superiority (personal and either national or racial), in unquestioning obedience and in a concept of order (uniformity, etc.). You've got the first two core beliefs of Fascism pat down and maybe also value 'order'. It scares me that people still put their faith in these notions.

He was a war hero from the days of the mujahideen anti-Soviet fight which the U. S. supported.

There are elements of Fascism I can get behind. Nationalism is a form of Fascism. I get that. And I believe our nation is the strongest and that might makes right. Isn't that survival of the fitest? We are the fitest of the nations, being the strongest, and so we survive by killing off those who would kill us. As Laveyan Satanism declares "Do unto others as they do unto you." +1 Anton LaVey!

Jece....you can't be taken seriously. You rewrite history, you deny facts when you don't like them. I quit trying to actually talk when, in true fucktard form, you accused the US of war crimes in WWII. Such a one as you lives so far fro. Reality it is hardly worth the effort to talk to you.....but I'll keep throwing bombs at you because it makes me laugh to read your erratic replies.

Delusional nutbag loves him some rapist Clinton and is glad.Billy bombed an aspirin factory. Clinton was an absolute fuckup....we suffered terrorist attacks globally OFTEN under Clinton....911 was just the culmination of Clinton's steady stream of failures.

That also applies in reverse Draug. It wasn't like we didn't give arms and training to Bin Laden in the 80s.