interesting debate guys .. keep it respectful ... as interesting points being made (ex. don't make stupid broad comments about conservatives or liberals) ... and especially ignore KB who is the face of ignorance

Ogion, on that poverty Level number, where did you get yours?

Mine came from the 2016 US Census Bureau , and it was adjusted by cost of living

And on yoru energy numbers, where did those come from, cuz mine came from the Department of Energy 2015, not 2008, and according to that, only 2% of natural gas supplies were from within the state.

“and especially ignore KB who is the face of ignorance”

Thanks for keeping it respectful.

Shut up you deficient moron

SPM also adjusts for aid provided to the poor, which is why Oklahoma’s is lower than the poverty rate.

Parts of California industry are starting a downturn, and Oklahoma is actively trying to diversify the economy to begin an upturn. Trends at their very start aren’t going to look like their present numbers. I’m not going to pretend Oklahoma is extremely well off. This is all just providing perspective.

"Shut up you deficient moron "

Thanks for not making any personal attacks

Why would California want to leave in the first place? They get a much better deal being a part of the US economy than competing with it.

“That may be so, but the real reason there is such migration is because of retirees. ”

The migration is industry itself. It’s going to Texas.

Also entertainment industry in a singular location is fighting for its survival right now because it knows the time for democratization of the industry is right around the corner.

@StevenC: Not really. California contributes much more to the United States economy than it gets back in return, as it is with most "blue" states. California leads the U.S. in almost 80 agricultural products including most fruits, vegetables and nuts (insert joke here). We have world class higher education. We have Hollywood and Silicon Valley, massive shipping ports and several international airports.

Politically, we have about one-ninth of the population of the United States, but only one-fiftieth of its representation in the Senate. We're a helluva lot more liberal than the rest of the U.S. (the *difference* between Clinton and Trump in California alone could account for her popular vote victory).

And we're tired of being the butt of jokes by uninformed parochial rednecks, but we really don't care that much. There are so many interesting and fun things to do here, we're mostly busy with ourselves. ;)

You keep soothing yourself with your own words TrPrado, with whatever dank corners of the internet you get your information from. Come to California and see the reality for yourself. Like so many others, including myself now after 25 years, you may just like it.

I am so looking forward to the time in the near future when Texas goes blue. It is a demographic inevitably.

Or when California goes red.

“Come to California and see the reality for yourself.”

I like being able to afford a home and food, thanks.

I have no time to read other messages. My opinion is Spanish Police is wrong. Democracy is legal right. If Catalonian people wants to have a country, they must have. Same as Irap Kurdish Referendum.

@TrPrado: I didn't say come to San Francisco. Go live in Sacramento or Fresno or Redding or some shit.

I’d rather improve my own stomping ground than make some stupid venture out west.

@Jeff Kuta What about the Conservatives of California? They constitute 30 % of the voters they don't seem to be represented

@MangoDude: Well, if your party espouses policies that put you under a 2/3rds super-majority when there is an independent redistricting commission and top 2 primary system, your party is doing a shitty job representing the electorate.

I think if the Republican Party of California stopped listening to the national party and followed the Schwartzenegger model, they'd bounce right back.

I mean, State of Jefferson. Right?

I'm not a republican I wanted Bernie in office. California's possible succession was about not being well represented when the 30% conservatives aren't well represented in the electoral vote. Sorry for contributing to the derail of this post from Catalonia to California.

I believe if the Spanish government acted similarly to the Catalonian situation the same way the US did to the California situation Catalonia wouldn't have the support it does now to a succession. Until the government made harsh crackdowns on the voting large portions of Catalonia did not support the succession. Also the Catalonia situation isn't rife with hypocrisy it only has some areas of it. But hey I'm not infallible I'm just trying to share my opinion on the Diplomacy of the world.

Sorry, I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions about your politics--Bernie is great!. It did seem like you were defending conservatives, but you were pointing out poor representation by any segment of the electorate.

At least California Republicans have statewide elections to voice their opinions. I am a fan of the electoral college in general, but I can see some people in political minorities feel left out of representation.

California did go for Bush Sr in 1988, but I doubt we'll see us go red unless some moderate California Republican becomes their nominee.

Wow, a forum item on Catalunya and Spain, and more than 80% of the posts are about the US....

Well obviously, @ksako8. How could you forget that America IS the world?

@CroakandDagger

It is. :^)

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/06/us-military-bases-around-the-world-119321

What about Andorra?

Andorra? I mean it already has it's independence, even if their co-monarchs are, in one case, appointed by the monarch of another european country, and in the other case, elected by the population of a different european country...

So kinda independent?

Will JamesYanik make any Catalan games?

goddamnit now i have to

Sí, sí, sí, sí, sí...

Anyone else watching this?