One that, we can agree.

I believe in a system where people can live their own way, create their own shithole societies if they really want.
just the way some people decide to form cooperatives now, they will be able to create their own rules on THEIR property. However, can you have a free market in soviet rassia? Were you allowed to have your own store? No. Essentialy, even though I believe socialism is completely flawed, if people want to live in such a society voluntarily, they should be able to do so.
However, people that believe in socialism think capitalism is evil and no one must be allowed to live in such a society, because they know what's best for everyone.

Your generous offer of socialist bantu-stans removed from the rest of your free market society is noted.

Of course if every individual has a different conception of what their favorite society is then society is impossible.

Libertarians like ILN are the most authoritarian of them all. They can't accept a single decision they don't approve of. They are completely intolerant of the views of the rest of society.

"Sometimes you don't get what you want. Deal with it. Grow up."
Because growing up involves giving up your rights and telling others what to do and how to live. you really are a child hating bastard. Get that hate out of you.

"They are completely intolerant of the views of the rest of society."

So how does that square with you despising the half of the country that votes for Republicans?

Shoo hate

@invictus, have you not learned putin is hypocrite #1?

"So how does that square with you despising the half of the country that votes for Republicans?"

Because they try to destroy the country every time they lose an election. They don't accept majority rule.

"Because growing up involves giving up your rights and telling others what to do and how to live"

Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do. I know this blows the minds of crybabies everywhere.

Untrue. I was against the shutdown, but it sure looks like Obamacare could have done with a delay. One's probably inevitable now anyhow.

I hope you stick to your beliefs putin, and keep hating, i can't imagine what goes on in your head when those autistic kids you supposedly tend to cry because they don't get something they want, it really leads me to think you formed this mentality from such experiences, in which case, you really are a bastard.

Yeah I'm sure your party was interested in making Obamacare work better, not just trying to sabotage it.

Someone who believes in such a callous dog-eat-dog ideology as you do really shouldn't use autistic children as your political fodder, as they are entirely dependent on *evil socialist government programs like Medicaid* to have any chance at all in life. Programs you seek to destroy. Programs you equate to tyranny.

I think we need to separate Obamacare from healthcare.gov. They really are separate issues.

Obama doesn't really have control over how government contracts work, especially in the high-tech field. They are pretty much doomed to fail. Very few people in government understand IT and good IT companies don't bother with government contracts.

It is, of course, a very real threat to Obamacare, though. I'm sure that anyone who needs insurance will be able to get it through the exchanges. The problem is that young, healthy people are unlikely to try more than once to sign up. That could cause Obamacare to quickly hemorrhage money.

The site wouldn't exist abnd would not have been funded without Obamacare. You can't separate the two.

@Draug

Right, but the problems with healthcare.gov are distinct from the problems with Obamacare and are not caused by the same people.

Even if the website worked perfectly, people still would be losing coverage and the underlying principles of the program are still deeply flawed. The website is the least of its problems.

The web site is probably the only thing from keeping people from rioting on Washington...because once people start getting logged in and recieve the outrageous quotes to replace their lost coverage with an excessively high-cost new policy via the web site, even all the good liberals are going to lose faith.

Not true. They were caused by the same people who pushed through Obamacare selecting the wrong company to do the work. And to make matters worse, the site violates HIPPA in the process and gives quotes so high for the typical person that they may as well pay the fine and forget about getting insurance even thought the policy they had that is no getting cancelled was perfect for their needs.

But we won't get into the details of why a 47 year old amn and his 58 year old wife who have had a vasectomy and a hysterectomy must pay for assuring they have prenatal and newborn coverage.

Obamacare supporters didn't write the laws that decide how government contracts are awarded...

Contracts over the website are almost irrelevant. They have nothing to do with millions of people losing their insurance and now having to buy more expensive policies despite Obama's repeated promises to the contrary.

@Invictus

I'm not arguing whether Obamacare is good or bad. I think there are strong points to be made on both sides.

All I'm saying is that I don't like it when people use healthcare.gov as an example of Obamacare's failures. Even if the ACA bill was perfect (whatever that means), the website would still be a disaster.

Agreed 100% invictus. Obamacare resulted in 50-75% of all privately insured people having their policies cancelled and being forced to pay *more* for coverage they neither want nor will ever use. Like really, my wife who has no ovaries or fallopian tubes needs coverage for a pregnancy? I need coverage for a pregnancy?!

"Obamacare resulted in 50-75% of all privately insured people having their policies cancelled and being forced to pay *more* for coverage they neither want nor will ever use."

How do you know this? Is this one of your "straight from the gut" statistics?

I actually think I heard something similar. However, I think the population of people affected is ~5% of insured people. So, that's like 2.5% of insured people. Additionally, Obamacare allows for these canceled plans to continue to exist for at least 1 more year, so Insurance companies could have kept them, if they wished.

"All I'm saying is that I don't like it when people use healthcare.gov as an example of Obamacare's failures."

It's perfectly legitimate to use it as an example of the program's failure. When you require every American to buy health insurance you can't have the website which lets people buy the policies not work perfectly on the roll-out date, especially when you've had three years to develop it. It's also not just the user interface, but the whole system that's messed up. That means that even people who call in to set thir plans up will face all kinds of problems since, it being 2013, all their information still has to go into the system.

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28/21213547-obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance

"Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC NEWS that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law."

NBC News good enough for you?

Right, 50% of 4% of the population...

And abgemacht - Read the article. It is very enlightening.

Yeah, I know. I'm not absolving Obama for what he did; he blatantly lied. I'm just adding a little more context to your statement.