##VOTE no lynch

Thank you for clarifying, y2k.

Yoyo, why do you feel the need to say that you're voting for a townread? Also, why not start a third wagon, or at least attempt to, if you are so confident that both of your options are town?

@Damian
Please do.

My reason isn't post ex facto in the slightest. I told everyone in a post very early on that my vote was a reaction vote. I'll look for it right now. You're getting a lot of things wrong.

@bo
So you'd rather me just lay down a vote at EOD without saying anything? How about I flop my read of them to scum and then vote? No. I said that I townread them becuase I wasn't sure who to vote for, dude.

I tried to get the maniac wagon going, but it failed. That's why I had to switch my vote. I didn't even have a chance to sell that wagon well because I was at work at the time. Did you even look at EOD, or did you just take guak's word for it.

I would rather you start a third wagon instead of planting your vote on someone who you believe is town while crying about the fact that you are "forced" to do so. You made the point that you were voting for a townread on two occasions that I remember and I don't see the purpose of doing that. If you were genuinely concerned that you were being forced to choose between townies, you would have tried to push another wagon before resigning yourself.

Show me where you tried to get the Maniac wagon going.

No. Look for it. I'm tired. I'll try to defend myself, but I'm not going to go through the tad multiple times to try to find every sort of solutions to your questions, which shouldnt even be questions if you read the thread.

@Yoyo, apologies for the confusion, that was poor structuring on my part. I didn't intend to imply that the day 1 situation was an instance where I felt you were giving reasons ex-post facto. That judgement was intended for a couple of other explanations. Rereading some of your explanations though I'm wondering if I've misunderstand the situation you were addressing in them. Perhaps that's why I'm feeling the answers are dissonant with the play I'm looking at. I'll restructure my question post, since it covers a large chunk of the behaviour I've found suspicious. That way I can make sure I'm matching up your answer with the correct action.

Lol everyone takes everyone else's word but yoyo. Nope, Yoyo, you gotta search through the thread to back up everything you said because I'm to lazy to.

Fair enough, Yoyo.

^directed mainly at bo

I don't believe anyone else besides me has pointed out that you felt compelled to say you were voting for a townread of yours shortly before a deadline where your vote mattered, but correct me if I'm wrong.

The following questions are regarding several posts by Yoyo and other interaction with him which I have reproduced here to provide context.
Page 40
Yoyo: "@espi

It's a pretty dumb point, and helpful townies actually analyze the votes, which you are making much more difficult by not taking votes seriously. Also, I posted my comment 15 minutes after you last sheeped wjessop, and before then, 30 minutes before that, you followed him again deliberately."
Yoyo: “It seems that everyone significantly improved their play, except guak and espi. ()()VOTE Espi”

p42
Yoyo “15 minute break, can someone give me a quick rundown?”
Bo: "Sure, Yoyo. You bussed Maniac, backed off, switched to Espi, which had me TRing Espi and SRing you and Maniac, but then Espi scumslipped a lot harder than he did with his "rest of the scum" line D1, so now I'm voting him again. I have no idea what Jeff is doing, but the fact that his wagon just can't seem to pick up steam indicates he might be scum too, so I am quite confused despite what I thought 10 minutes ago."
Yoyo “Ermm, is any willing to sitch with me onto jeff?”
Espi: “@bo and Yoyo, come on, we can do this. You both join me and Jeff dies.”
Yoyo: “Bo come on ()()vote jeff”

and after the lynch on p46
Yoyo: “Well, that was expected. Can't say that I'm at the least bit surprised.”
Yoyo: “The lynch outcome. I feel that there were 2 townies up for lynch yesterday, Espi and Jeff..."

Question 1. If you felt like both Jeff and Espi where town, why did you try and get people to shift on Espi, even imploring Bo to switch?
Comment: I find this particularly suspicious since you where not caught up on what was going on, and misinterpreted Bo's summary.

Question 2. Furthermore if you felt like Espi was town, why were you pressuring him on page 40, followed by your vote for him?
Comment: When you voted you certainly didn't make it sound like your were voting for one of your town reads.

Question 3: Any thoughts on why Espi would ask you and Bo specifically to switch? Bo, if you could answer this as well that would be grand.

I've reproduced more content from Yoyo, to provide context for the following question
P50
Yoyo: “@Damian, Well in order to elaborate, can you explain why you're drawing the opposite conclusion?”
I elaborate. Yoyo doesn't replies instead Espi jumps in.
On page 51 Yoyo says:
"@DL
I'm actually in the same boat now. This is dumb. All of the lynch candidates so far have been everyone I'm town reading and I don't think anyone's listening to me. I actually wouldn't be surprised if our 3 scum were the people on Espi. I don't know anything anymore."

Question 4: Why didn’t you reply Yoyo?
Comment: I felt like you drew an illogical conclusion from what you stated, and when I asked you about it you left. Yet you still continued to post as if there was no problem with your town read of Espi, even stating in the following page when you returned that everyone up for a lynch was people you were town reading.

For reference this was the vote count at the time:
"Day 3 Vote Count #4

Espi (3): guak, Damian, Vecna
Damian (1): Espi
Vecna (1): Yoyoyozo
bo_sox48 (1): DeathLlama8"

Question 5: So you were town reading, Espi, Myself, Bo and... I assume you were excluding Vecna from that statement, is that correct?

And a third event reproduced for context.
3. This event on P51
“If it makes you feel better
()()VOTE Espi”
“Correction: I was on your wagon, but not because I thought you were scum.”

Question 6 & 7: Why do you care how your vote makes one of your ‘maybe’ scum reads feel? Why aren’t you voting for people you think are scum?

Finally one again for context, on P55
Right after night ends Yoyo: “I need to reevaluate my life.”…“I’m so confused.”

Question 8: Why the anchor posts?

That's because that is a very specific case, bo. Of course you arethe only one to say that. I'm talking about when someone brings up a point against me, and then I explain myself, and then they want me to look up in the thread. Thats your job as the person questioning someone. If that weren't the case, I could just make up bullshit about someone (which is essentially what guak did) and then when I tell them that they are full of shit and why their full of shit, they want me to point it out to them in the thread as if they didn't need to read it in order to make the case.

If you still find that difficult to parse Yoyo, I've labeled all the questions with Question #:
So you should be able to use Ctrl + F to find them.

This is MUCH better, thank you.

Damian, to answer your question toward me, I would imagine that it was simply another attempt to buddy me. Espi did it like it was nothing throughout his game. He rated me at 90% likely to be town while the next highest was 55% in his (arbitrary) reads. He followed me without explanation or justification onto Maniac. He said that ghug and I were the only people he trusted on D1 after I (and I think ghug, but I don't remember for sure) went after him for suggesting he "trusts" anyone at all in this game a few threads back. Seriously, D1. That's my guess as to why he did that. His goal was to take me down with him and he had me worried for a long time that, when he flipped scum, he would accomplish exactly that. I'm glad the town isn't oblivious enough to do that thus far.

@Yoyo ... "That's because that is a very specific case, bo"

If my case is a very specific case, then why are you criticizing me for not having a specific case against you?

Look, Yoyo, if I went back and reread this thread like you seem to think I should, I could put a damn good case together against everyone here - guarantee it. That's not how I'm scumhunting because that's useless. I'd confuse myself more than anything. Frankly, I'm starting to believe that that strategy of long-drawn, point-by-point cases has always has been useless, though less so early on in games.

I could go back and find quotes, but if you and everyone reading what I say understands what I am referring to, I see no reason to. You made the claim that you pushed a Maniac wagon, not me, and I asked you to back that up. I didn't ask you to do anything you didn't agree to do, because when you make a claim like that, you're inviting criticism and you put it on yourself to back it up. So, as I asked, please show me where you pushed the Maniac wagon. It's your point, not mine.

Question 1. If you felt like both Jeff and Espi where town, why did you try and get people to shift on Espi, even imploring Bo to switch?
Comment: I find this particularly suspicious since you where not caught up on what was going on, and misinterpreted Bo's summary.

I read bo's summary, and it was full of bias bullshit (thanks for the summary bo) so I quickly scanned the thread. I felt that both of them were town because they were getting a bit too much heat from everyone for them to be scum (I guess I was wrong). Then I considered the fact that Espi was up for lynch again, so perhaps scum was going b to try to lynch him again since he built up a pretty big following since EOD 1.LOL I turned out to be wrong again.

"Question 2. Furthermore if you felt like Espi was town, why were you pressuring him on page 40, followed by your vote for him?
Comment: When you voted you certainly didn't make it sound like your were voting for one of your town reads. "
My opinion of espi changed for a quick second, because I felt like he was acting to stupid to actually be genuine. Then he admitted to exaggerating his reactions, which confused me, so I took it for scummy.

"Question 3: Any thoughts on why Espi would ask you and Bo specifically to switch? Bo, if you could answer this as well that would be grand."
We were the only two people on that were on Espi, I believe. I'll have to check.

"If my case is a very specific case, then why are you criticizing me for not having a specific case against you?"

What the fuck are you talking about?

Wait, there were more people online. I'm not sure why addressed bo, but he addressed me because I was asking if anyone wanted to switch to jeff with me. So there is some possible bo-espi thing going on

Of course it was biased bullshit. It was half-sarcasm.

"Lol everyone takes everyone else's word but yoyo."

You criticize me for buying right into what others say, except you. You then tell me I have a very specific case against you, a point I agree with. So why are you telling me I am simply trampling along with the crowd? Damian and guak are both coming after you but for different things.

I do appreciate that Question 3 requires a bit of WIFOM if you want to draw anything concrete from it. I don't expect anything concrete. Just wanted an off the head sort of response.

Comment: Regarding your answer to Question 2 Yoyo, this is where I feel like I'm looking at a situation where the motivation you are ascribing to yourself doesn't fit your actions at the time. It sounds like you're describing your scum read of Espi as a brief moment of insanity in an otherwise stable town read of him. But reading through the pages leading up to your vote on Espi it reads like you're pressuring Espi because you suspect him. Which makes the switch to town reading him when you briefly returned while on a break from work seem like it should be the moment of insanity. Particularly since it emerged from quickly scanning the thread, whereas your prior vote for Espi had presumably arisen when you had more time to think about it. Which leads me to my first follow up question. I'm labeling this one question 1/2a, because it is a follow up to your answer to question 1 and 2.

Question 1/2a: What did you come across in particular that changed your mind about Espi? Or was it nothing in particular they did, but instead the situation they were in their changed your mind?

Just wanted to note, we are now more than 24 hours into this day and so far we have 2 post from DL plus the no lynch vote and no posts from Vecna. I'm really not loving this lack of activity from either of them.

I'll see about writing up a few questions for each of them, and would encourage anyone else who has time to write up a question or two as well. Being asked to answer direct questions about their actions will hopefully force them to be more active.

Might ask Vecna why he so adamantly townreads me and whether anything has changed since his last analysis. That read seems to be the only thing he has put a ton of time into, so it might as well be where we question him.

I'll address the rest later.

@Vecna. A couple questions for you.

Context:
During day 1, you came arrived in the game and the made the following comments.
"Luckily some people do appear to be quite desperate in their attempts to appear inquisitive."

"“@bo im going to keep my observations to myself for now to see if the behavior continues (at least for a little while longer). Stating it means influencing it and I want to read up on some of the people in past games to see if my initial ideas have any merit.”"

Question 1 & 2. Who were you referring too in terms of desperate inquisitiveness? Why didn't you follow up by later pointing out the behaviour in question?

Context:
Y2k: “Day 1 Official Vote Count #2

Espi (3): ghug, ND, Maniac
bo_sox48 (2): DeathLlama8, Yoyoyozo
ND (1): wjessop
Vecna (1): Vecna”

"Yoyo: “Oh I see you're trying to start your own wagon. I'll just help you out there.
()()Vote Vecna”"

Vecna: "Also did I just potentially save Espi by starting a new thing?”"

Question 3: Why did you think your wagon on yourself was saving Espi?
Comment: This comment is particularly confusing since Yoyo was moving from Bo onto you. To me this reads like a scum slip, I cannot imagine town being worried about saving some from the lynch that early in the game, particularly since your concern wasn't founded in actually weakening a wagon on the person you were supposedly worried about saving.

Bonus Question: Could you answer Bo's question about why you're town reading him so hard?

I'll see about some DL questions tomorrow. This took way longer than I wanted it to, and I didn't even get that many good questions out of it. Bleh. Still we've got something for Vecna to do at least which should hopefully force him to engage with the thread.

Hey guys, imin Paris atm so my responses are slightly more limited again. Hopefully I'll find some time for some inspector gadget mode, but it's hectic on the phone with a shitty connection.

@damian - the self vote and response were just me screwing around, same for the espi save comment that followed it. I thought this was pretty obvious but apparently not to everyone.

My comment with regard to the desperate inquisitiveness was mostly regarding ND. His career just smelled incredibly forced to me and with poor poor logic. I also wanted to not start talking and paying public attention to maniacs behaviour but i felt this was very suspicious as well. Hence my voting for ND and you/maniac on d1.

As my townread on bo, i think I've gone into it but his reads and conclusions just have been very similar to my own. I feel he has been pointing out the right things

Continued: that make sense to notice from a town point of view, and the voting record that makes the most sense to me from all players left. He hasn't been trying to save scum and always had proper reasoning for his votes from my perspective. Anyways enough of that before people start accusing me of buddy ing

Thanks for the answers Vecna. Given your current circumstances, and how insane things are in Paris at the moment I wouldn't worry too much about posting, just stay safe. It would be great if you could make a vote so there is no risk of you being modkilled. I personally think I good case has been made for no lynch, but you should make your own decision on that.

I know the saving Espi comment was a joke. However now that we know he's scum, it just seems like a really odd joke to make.

Glad you're safe vecna