Religion is an intensely personal thing. I agree. Key word is personal.

@uber. No. It is exactly as germane to the conversation as your point. I do not know how we got sidetracked by the question of if members follow all the commands of their respective holy books; I was just trying to follow your lead.

Jeff this verse from the Psalms speaks about Babylon and it speaks of revenge on the destruction Babylonians brought to Israel and Jerusalem when the original Solomon's temple was destroyed. And mind you that the old Testament was a first step before the New Testament and the fulfillment of all in the person of Jesus. In the other hand the Coran is demanding the death of infidels.
Noone says that Christians are perfect, we all struggle for improvement but we cannot focus on that and forget that Islamists butcher people for being infidels.

The talk about what causes wars is very relevant though in relation to your statement that a world without religion would result in a place where people don't have anything to kill or die for.

My point was intending to refute the claims the "Christianity" is responsible for things like the crusades and Salem witch trials. Those things were caused by stupid people with power.

@uber, that is an argument one can make. But could not that same argument be used to also refute the claims by others that "Islam" is responsible for these terrorist attacks?

Did I say I agree with those claims? I am just trying to clear Christianity's name here.

No. You did not. Although I am confused why you would only be trying to clear Christianity's name if you believe that multiple Abrahamic religions are being unfairly maligned in this thread.

I don't hate Muslims as much as some people here, but you expect me to defend them?!?!?

Uh... did you just say you hate Muslims?

Yes.

That was an unexpected response...

Hey, I like messing with your heads! ;)

#AtLeastHe'sHonest

How many awful disgusting threads can we have at once

Welcome to webDip, brainbomb! ;)

Just mute them so we can have our fun.

"Uh... did you just say you hate Muslims? "

But Muslims have inflicted suffering on others, so don't you want Muslims and their families to suffer also so you can take joy from it?

No? Because thats a ridiculous mischaracterization that would also imply im a senseless bigot who thinks because some members of some group did bad things that I think all people from that group all do bad things. Its simply untrue.

Besides many factors that caused terror groups to form are direct results of US policies and US invasions into foreign lands. We supported bin laden mostly to fuck with russia for example. We supported Saddam Heussein vs Iran.

Alot of dictators and despots we supported turned out to bite us in the ass. Pinochet, bin laden, ect

Your trying to make it sound like im an.absolutist. which is what YOU are.

If theres any karma involved here, its that radical islam was CREATED by US.

Isis for example wouldnt even exist if we hadnt invaded Iraq and bombed the living fuck out of them.

"No? Because thats a ridiculous mischaracterization that would also imply im a senseless bigot who thinks because some members of some group did bad things that I think all people from that group all do bad things. Its simply untrue"

How is that different from wanting the families of a person who did a bad thing to suffer?

Wouldn't that imply that you think all people from that group, er family, all do bad things?

I agree it is simply untrue, but you are the one who said you thought it justified to feel joy that the families of a mass murderer etc feel shame.

Or should all Muslims feel shame over the actions of a few?

And isn't shame a type of suffering?

Just trying to understand which you are saying is all.

ding ding ding.
So don't support politicians who were involved in the droning and destabilizing of the middle-east.

No, support said politicians so they can finish the fucking job.

I dont want entire families to suffer for the sins of their mothers or fathers. I pointed out that in the case of the madoff family a very brutal form of karma trickled thru their family. Sure it could be a result of being complicit to the criminal behavior of the father. I dont doubt it at all in fact. But watching all your children die is a punishment that probably doesnt fit the crime in bernies case. That level of familial loss is obviously sad. I feel worse for the victims however who wont get their money back than I do for Bernie.

I asked if the victims of oklahoma city for example want the parents of mcveigh to feel ashamed. And of course the answer is probably yea. Of course they should feel some responsibility but maybe so should the US Military that had mcveigh harboring radical views and he had no psychological oversight. Plenty of blame. I didnt say I wish ppl to suffer. But they should feel a shame- a burden for what happened.-i dont know how you could totally warp my words like that

Ok BB, just trying to clarify because you had made the previous question in the other thread..

"Do you think they are in the wrong if they also hope his family feels shame? "

Thanks for clearing that up.

I think we are on the same page on that one then.

Maybe we aren't on the same page lol

"I didnt say I wish ppl to suffer. But they should feel a shame- a burden for what happened.-i dont know how you could totally warp my words like that "

Calling shame a form of suffering is not close to a "total warp" of your words.

It is taking your words very literally.

The definition for shame is - a painful feeling of humiliation or distress caused by the consciousness of wrong or foolish behavior:

I would most definitely equate the words painful, humiliation and distress with suffering.

Many families who had their children or siblings or parents die feel a sense of peace knowing that the person responsible is behind bars. A great many feel no relief when alternatively, the suspect is put to death. Im actually not a fan of the death penalty.

In nebraska we got rid of it. And then we voted to bring it back. I tend to think its expensive and provides too easy of a solution. A murderers life shouldnt be in the hands of the state necessarily, but putting it in the hands of the victims may not be better either.

Take Aaron Hernandez. He got life and then hung himself.

Did anyone get closure?