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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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brainbomb (290 D)
23 May 17 UTC
(+1)
Why is Terrorism the only time people feel a visceral response?
I noticed recently there was an incident where a man crashed his car into multiple people injuring many and killing someone. But because it was not terrorism, people did not seem motivated in the same manner against alcoholism as they would have if he were a terrorist. If he had indeed been from any Muslim country at all, and also under the influence of alcohol, one has to wonder if people would just automatically assume it was a terror plot.
91 replies
Open
Hauta (1618 D(S))
22 May 17 UTC
American reporter arrested for asking questions to Trump HHS Secretary
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/10/business/media/reporter-arrested-tom-price.html

Freedom of the press is an integral part of the 1st amendment. Just wondering how rightwing media handled or ignored this story about Dan Heyman, the reporter that was arrested for asking persistent questions to Tom Price, HHS Secretary.
54 replies
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JECE (1248 D)
11 May 17 UTC
(+2)
On how PPSC scoring does not encourage players to throw games
In our recent discussion (threadID=1432961), many mods and fellow pillars of the community claimed that when you have two Great Powers in a game that have between 12 and 16 supply centers, one of these Great Powers has a (D) points-incentive to throw the game. I disagreed and this puzzled my fellow users, but only Lethologica took the bait when I explained my position. Here it is again:
32 replies
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Oztra (30 DX)
25 Mar 17 UTC
(+3)
Bump
Because I'm a new pleb, I'm not sure what bump means.
I've been seeing people use it a lot, and am unsure of the context and meaning behind this phrase
133 replies
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carder007s.com (0 DX)
23 May 17 UTC
Buy CC, Cvv , dumps Fullz of all countries
Buy CC, Cvv , dumps Fullz of all countries
0 replies
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Volmort (100 D)
22 May 17 UTC
Coast passing
Hi I have a question, can I move from mid-atlantic see to North Africa and next turn attack Tunis?

Or its prevented by coastal issues?
5 replies
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CommanderByron (801 D(S))
20 May 17 UTC
Gauging Interest: Econ-Dip
See Inside
31 replies
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Namejeff (10 DX)
22 May 17 UTC
GTA 7
Does anyone have GTA 12 that I can borrow for my comrade
1 reply
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bobarctor1977 (341 D)
18 May 17 UTC
Would anyone be interested in joining a game with some friends of mine and I?
I have 3 friends that I would like to introduce to the game, but can't seem to talk anyone else into playing with us for a full Ancient Med game. Just a casual, low-bet game, probably 2 day turns.
18 replies
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Hippopankake (80 D)
20 May 17 UTC
New game
I'm thinking about making a game where you have to have a war goal and a justification for going to war similar to paradox games thoughts ?
7 replies
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leon1122 (190 D)
18 May 17 UTC
(+1)
German Man Imprisoned for 10 years for Holocaust Denial
See below
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bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
18 May 17 UTC
Sure, but your point that the Berlin Wall being torn down could be construed as a bad thing because of the lost history is irrelevant to your actual point about preserving history, since by all means, you cannot leave up a chunk of a statue or a chunk of a monument and act as if that is somehow remedying the problem. The Berlin Wall was so wide and expansive that tearing it down was nothing more than symbolic in the first place - properties were crafted around it, roads were built through it, subway lines had been deconstructed and filled, and there was nothing to connect the two halves of Berlin other than what was manned by armed guards. Removing the armed guards would have reconnected the city, and eventually, other paths would have opened up in time. Removing the wall itself was little more than the symbolic message that those jelly doughnuts sent saying they didn't want to be separated anymore. Removing a Confederate statue, on the other hand, is the people saying that they don't want a Confederate statue - it does not have, and will not have in the future, greater symbolic meaning than that once it is dismantled. That only exists while it stands.
brainbomb (290 D)
18 May 17 UTC
Im aware of the distinction you want to make. A better example which republicans love to talk about is the destruction of holy sites by ISIS and comparing it to city councils-state govts-and campus student elected bodies tearing down pro-slavery idols.

Calling those people totalitarian savage democrats who want to erase history.

There have been instances in which cities and states have been sued for monuments to the ten commandments and the bible being displayed on public land in parks and in view. This is a clear violation of seperation of church and state. Its also taxpayer funded to build that shit.

Just for sake of argument is it right for state and city governments to be forcing religion on us and using taxpayer money to erect such things?

If this isnt a problem - then the guy who wants to build statues honoring satan should be allowed too
brainbomb (290 D)
18 May 17 UTC
https://www.google.com/amp/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_55eee154e4b03784e2765fd5/amp
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
18 May 17 UTC
(+1)
You minimize your argument when you say certain things without basis, brain. I'm sure some Republicans compare people that want to tear down a statue in New Orleans to ISIS, or the Taliban, or whomever, but that is a fringy, uncommon view. It is no secret that many people on the left side of the spectrum make the same comparisons, or compare Republicans to fascists, or other things that are not even close and diminish the things that those people did. There is no basis in those arguments, no matter where they come from.

To answer your question, no, obviously that isn't right, and that's why courts always strike them down.
Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
18 May 17 UTC
(+2)
Satan's been around longer than the Confederacy.
brainbomb (290 D)
18 May 17 UTC
Satanism is a religious belief. Believing in the confederacy and what it stood for is not. In fact its actually counter to all that america stands for - life - LIBERTY -and PURSUIT of Happiness. 2/3 things on that list the confederacy favored blatantly disregarding for the sake of slavery.
brainbomb (290 D)
18 May 17 UTC
If you want a monument that celebrates slavery and what it accomplished go view the pyramids of fucking giza. 1 in every 3 people died building it. Most were slaves given bread and wine but slaves nonetheless. Nobodys going to tear down the pyramids to erase the history of slavery. As long as the pyramids stand nobidys gonna forget who built it.
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
18 May 17 UTC
(+1)
I honestly don't think that even the people that fly Confederate flags or want to keep Confederate statues disagree with that, brainbomb, which is why you are so unconvincing to them when you talk about this sort of thing. Those things are nothing more than symbols to them, with no relation to what they actually are.
brainbomb (290 D)
18 May 17 UTC
The guy with a pickup truck driving along with 4 bumper stickers about the right to own guns and decals of semi aytomatic weapons and two massive rebel flags and a decal that says the south shall rise again.

You 'hope' that guy just sees them as symbols... 'hope'
Hauta (1618 D(S))
18 May 17 UTC
right now, aren't we all wage slaves (with the exception of CAPT_Brad and that guy getting rich by selling fake passports)?
brainbomb (290 D)
18 May 17 UTC
Wage slavery is a give and take. Slavery is just a take. There was no giving other than providing the most basic form of food and shelter.
Zmaj (215 D(B))
18 May 17 UTC
(+3)
My God... I'll never look at pyramids the same way again :P
Brainbomb, you get all worked up about causes that are already won. I guess you love it when you look good with no risk involved.
brainbomb (290 D)
18 May 17 UTC
You are characterizing me as being passionate about causes merely to aggrandize myself. Ive lived in the south. The struggle for equality for minorities is not a "won cause" far from it in fact.
brainbomb (290 D)
18 May 17 UTC
The mentality still exists in large chunks of society that people who look different are a danger - or are unworthy of the American dream. I will gladly fight for their place as a former college professor, an artist, a poet, singer. I have a very diverse life and luckily none of my close friends have been victims of hate crimes or unfair treatment. But that doesnt mean theyve never been called a slur. My friend is mexican and people kept calling him a towel head and used the n word at him. These haters are so ignorant they dont even know what race he is to talk shit on.
Zmaj (215 D(B))
18 May 17 UTC
"He's a wetback, you idiots!"
diplomat61 (223 D)
18 May 17 UTC
Free speech is a not an absolute right. It is generally a good thing, but not always as illustrated by the classic example of yelling "fire" in a cinema.

The German prohibition on denying the holocaust is analogous to this. Don't forget that WW2 is seen as a consequence of the settlement of the Great War, and that the Allies played a major role in creating the modern German law book. Is limiting the freedom of Germans to speak on this specific issue a bad thing?
ND (879 D)
18 May 17 UTC
“To compare washington and others who owned slaves is a false equivalency. The founding fathers fought to have slavery abolished in the original continental.congress but southern states threatened to pull support vs the british if those clauses werre added.”

@Brainbomb: Wrong. Abolitionism was a fringe movement (sorry, but it was) until the 1850s. A large amount of founding fathers owned slaves; including George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. Ever hear of the 3/5th’s compromise? Yeah they wrote it into the Constitution, bud. Take a history class sometime. So, I think that to be fair if we are going to remove Confederate statues we should also remove every statue to the founding fathers that owned slaves and change the U.S. flag because the U.S. flag flew over slavery. We should also change the name of the country because the United States has a legacy associated with slavery. Do you see how your attempts to censor the past can have a snowball effect? Geez.

“All of these are not totalitarian - these are common sense decisions being made by governing bodies like a campus elected board , a state legislature or a city council.”

They are authoritarian tactics used to censor the past.
brainbomb (290 D)
18 May 17 UTC
, more than 500,000 black Americans were slaves. Jefferson himself owned more than 100. Slaves accounted for about one-fifth of the population in the American colonies. Most of them lived in the Southern colonies, where slaves made up 40 percent of the population.

Many colonists, even slave holders, hated slavery. Jefferson called it a “hideous blot” on America. George Washington, who owned hundreds of slaves, denounced it as “repugnant.” James Mason, a Virginia slave owner, condemned it as “evil.”

But even though many of them decried it, Southern colonists relied on slavery. The Southern colonies were among the richest in America. Their cash crops of tobacco, indigo, and rice depended on slave labor. They weren’t going to give it up.

The first U.S. national government began under the Articles of Confederation, adopted in 1781. This document said nothing about slavery. It left the power to regulate slavery, as well as most powers, to the individual states. After their experience with the British, the colonists distrusted a strong central government. The new national government consisted solely of a Congress in which each state had one vote.

With little power to execute its laws or collect taxes, the new government proved ineffective. In May 1787, 55 delegates from 12 states met in Philadelphia. (Rhode Island refused to send a delegation.) Their goal was to revise the Articles of Confederation. Meeting in secret sessions, they quickly changed their goal. They would write a new Constitution. The outline of the new government was soon agreed to. It would have three branches — executive, judiciary, and a two-house legislature.

A dispute arose over the legislative branch. States with large populations wanted representation in both houses of the legislature to be based on population. States with small populations wanted each state to have the same number of representatives, like under the Articles of Confederation. This argument carried on for two months. In the end, the delegates agreed to the “Great Compromise.” One branch, the House of Representatives, would be based on population. The other, the Senate, would have two members from each state.

Part of this compromise included an issue that split the convention on North–South lines. The issue was: Should slaves count as part of the population? Under the proposed Constitution, population would ultimately determine three matters:

(1) How many members each state would have in the House of Representatives.
(2) How many electoral votes each state would have in presidential elections.
(3) The amount each state would pay in direct taxes to the federal government.

bhmcnstitutionalconvention
In 1787 after months of debate, delegates signed the new Constitution of the United States. (Wikimedia Commons)

Only the Southern states had large numbers of slaves. Counting them as part of the population would greatly increase the South’s political power, but it would also mean paying higher taxes. This was a price the Southern states were willing to pay. They argued in favor of counting slaves. Northern states disagreed. The delegates compromised. Each slave would count as three-fifths of a person.

Following this compromise, another controversy erupted: What should be done about the slave trade, the importing of new slaves into the United States? Ten states had already outlawed it. Many delegates heatedly denounced it. But the three states that allowed it — Georgia and the two Carolinas — threatened to leave the convention if the trade were banned. A special committee worked out another compromise: Congress would have the power to ban the slave trade, but not until 1800. The convention voted to extend the date to 1808.

A final major issue involving slavery confronted the delegates. Southern states wanted other states to return escaped slaves. The Articles of Confederation had not guaranteed this. But when Congress adopted the Northwest Ordinance, it a clause promising that slaves who escaped to the Northwest Territories would be returned to their owners. The delegates placed a similar fugitive slave clause in the Constitution. This was part of a deal with New England states. In exchange for the fugitive slave clause, the New England states got concessions on shipping and trade.

These compromises on slavery had serious effects on the nation. The fugitive slave clause (enforced through legislation passed in 1793 and 1850) allowed escaped slaves to be chased into the North and caught. It also resulted in the illegal kidnapping and return to slavery of thousands of free blacks. The three-fifths compromise increased the South’s representation in Congress and the Electoral College. In 12 of the first 16 presidential elections, a Southern slave owner won. Extending the slave trade past 1800 brought many slaves to America. South Carolina alone imported 40,000 slaves between 1803 and 1808 (when Congress overwhelmingly voted to end the trade). So many slaves entered that slavery spilled into the Louisiana territory and took root.

Northern states didn’t push too hard on slavery issues. Their main goal was to secure a new government. They feared antagonizing the South. Most of them saw slavery as a dying institution with no economic future. However, in five years the cotton gin would be invented, which made growing cotton on plantations immensely profitable, as well as slavery.

The Declaration of Independence expressed lofty ideals of equality. The framers of the Constitution, intent on making a new government, left important questions of equality and fairness to the future. It would be some time before the great republic that they founded would approach the ideals expressed in the Declaration of Independence.


(Slavery was only allowed to exist in thr declaration to curry favor from the southern states, jefferson himself hated slavery despite owning slaves)
brainbomb (290 D)
18 May 17 UTC
(+1)
Also thanks for the personal attack. My father taught history for 30 years. Im quite aware of history - also having watched the musical 1776 would explain that at one point when the founding fathers DID try to abolish slavery the entire soithern delegation stood up and walked out.
The comprimise you speak of was a last resort to keep them in the fold.

Nice try
Hauta (1618 D(S))
18 May 17 UTC
(+1)
Why exactly did we fight the Revolution again? Was it really taxation without representation? The taxes were very low compared to today and the founders were for the most part quite well off -- so the taxes weren't crushing them. Indeed, the Hessian mercenaries were surprised to see how good Americans had it and could not understand why they were rebelling! wdyt?
Zmaj (215 D(B))
18 May 17 UTC
(+2)
@brainbomb

"jefferson himself hated slavery despite owning slaves"

With all due respect for Jefferson, that's hypocrisy.
Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
18 May 17 UTC
(+1)
The Founding Fathers fought to CREATE the United States.

Confederate icons fought to destroy it.
Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
18 May 17 UTC
If England had won, I doubt they would have allowed statues of the Founding Fathers.
Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
18 May 17 UTC
History is written by the winners, baby
So let's make a little of our, our own tonight
If you think that my idea of fun is a drag
Then you've never been to paradise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdLyoCgDKFs
Yoyoyozo (65 D)
18 May 17 UTC
(+1)
Ok, a few things:

Which man? This isn't a fringe case where a particular man blogged about the holocaust not happening and then got arrested. These cases happen actually quite often where literal Neo-Nazis (not the ironic, watered-down word but actual people who are Nazis today) spread Nazi-propaganda and are more often than not, leaders of Neo-Nazi, anti-semitic, or Holocauust denying groups.

Germany was able to improve relations with foreign countries relatively quickly after rebirth partially because it accepted its participation in these atrocities and instituted programs to reeducate its population during a sort of "denazification" period. People spreading lies and attempting to sympathize with Nazism is a blatant act against these programs and Germany's image, so yes they should be punished.

Also they're fucking Nazi sympathizers, I really don't care if they get 10 years, or 50 years. So unless he is literally innocent of the crime, he can go to hell for all I care.
diplomat61 (223 D)
18 May 17 UTC
Discounting the teachings of great men and women because they lived according to the standards of their times (e.g. because he owned slaves Jefferson should be ignored) is an act of self-harm.
Zmaj (215 D(B))
18 May 17 UTC
(+1)
@Yoyoyozo

Sure, those laws are a convenient way to get rid of the unsavory elements of German society. But you see, laws punish everyone, not just neo-Nazis. That's why it is very important whether you will allow opinions to be criminalized.
Yoyoyozo (65 D)
18 May 17 UTC
A connection could be drawn to the United States and the Confederacy. Most of the civilized world can agree that the Secession and the following Civil War was about slavery, despite whatever values or whatever you'd like to tack on there (I forget the excuse that Confederacy sympathizers use but IIRC it was something about values)

Anyway, people flying confederate flags and shouting "The Confederacy will rise again" is one of the many things that damage Americas image. It's certainly one of the reasons why the South in particular are seen as dull-witted rednecks by a lot of the world, but that's besides the point. Germany for the most part was able to ameliorate *most* of these ill- natured feelings towards it, because of the programs and laws against Nazism.

If America implemented the same programs and policy, maybe it can solve a lot of the race isssues it has today.
Jeff Kuta (2066 D)
18 May 17 UTC
Those unsavory elements of German society ended up killing millions of people. I think there's a bit of justification for criminalizing some actions (anti-Semitic incitement, which people like Zmaj are conveniently ignoring).
Yoyoyozo (65 D)
18 May 17 UTC
@Zmaj
A normal citizen isn't going to get 10 years for saying he holocaust didn't happen. This man was most certainly a Neo Nazi. A Woman who was married to a Nazi Officer and was a leader a Anti-Semitic group who on several accounts distributed Nazi propaganda got only 5 years.


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381 replies
brainbomb (290 D)
21 May 17 UTC
Lawmaker threatened with Lynching after calling for Trumps impeachment.
http://www.ketv.com/article/racial-slurs-hurled-at-lawmaker-after-calling-for-trumps-impeachment/9901862
4 replies
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Hauta (1618 D(S))
21 May 17 UTC
(+1)
Hehe, Trump just bowed to Saudi king and curtsied too
Just another example of Trump hypocrisy. He slammed Obama for merely bowing. The curtsy was bigly over the top.
32 replies
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brainbomb (290 D)
20 May 17 UTC
Juggernaut is actually a horrible alliance
Despite the fearmongering ive seen in Press games about Juggernauts over the past 5 years ive been here...I cant help but note its low rate of success and how its paranoia often benefits France or England most. Please share games where Juggernauts fail miserably. But also include ones which work out in a 2wd (if there even is such a situtation)
10 replies
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peterwiggin (15158 D)
24 Mar 17 UTC
Spring 2017 SoW Study Game
This thread is for commentary and discussion on the spring 2017 School of War Study Game: gameID=194603

233 replies
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Jamiet99uk (808 D)
20 May 17 UTC
(+1)
Mafia
It's been a while since the last game of Mafia. When does the next one start?
19 replies
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brainbomb (290 D)
18 May 17 UTC
(+1)
Is it Treason to sympathize with the Confederacy?
Shouldnt it be treason to sympathize with the Confederacy? We fought a war and defeated them. Hundreds of thousands died more than any war fought by America. For people who still wish the south had won- chant the south shall rise again or fly its flags isnt this treason?
86 replies
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Crazy Anglican (1067 D)
20 May 17 UTC
Dresden Files rpg
Anybody here played it or better yet GM'ed it?
0 replies
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Fluminator (1500 D)
18 May 17 UTC
Should otherkin be forced to give up their human rights?
Are there any otherkin on this site? I'm genuinely curious to understand this culture more. If you identify as something non-human, do you think you have a right to get the privileges that all humans deserve? Or do you believe you're in a separate category and thus have different standards and base rules to start off with?
20 replies
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Hippopankake (80 D)
20 May 17 UTC
New game
I'm thinking about making a game where you have to have a war goal and a justification for going to war similar to paradox games thoughts ?
0 replies
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Fat backstab (25 DX)
15 May 17 UTC
(+1)
WebDiplomacy
I feel this would be a much better game if you destroyed all of the thots accounts
52 replies
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Jamiet99uk (808 D)
15 May 17 UTC
(+2)
Trump hands highly classified information to the Russians
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-revealed-highly-classified-information-to-russian-foreign-minister-and-ambassador/2017/05/15/530c172a-3960-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?tid=ss_fb&utm_term=.ef65b5b012be

What a liability this man is.
43 replies
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Hauta (1618 D(S))
16 May 17 UTC
Hillary's secret agenda
Someone made a comment that they voted for Trump because they were worried about Hillary's secret agenda. What was she going to do that was so bad?
44 replies
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CAPT Brad (40 DX)
17 May 17 UTC
Why Should Hillary Have Been Elected President
Explain concrete reasons why.
81 replies
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TrPrado (461 D)
18 May 17 UTC
Betty Shelby Found Not Guilty of Manslaughter
I'm just left wondering how the DA bungled what should have been an open-shut conviction.
6 replies
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Yoyoyozo (65 D)
13 May 17 UTC
Does .999... equal to 1?
I'm drunk and I havent seen this thread in a while. What do you guys think?
45 replies
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peterlund (1310 D(G))
18 May 17 UTC
Robert Mueller my hero!
At last you are getting something right over there. Put that traitor into prison where he belongs!
12 replies
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Durga (3609 D)
16 May 17 UTC
WDC
Is in Oxford this year. Anyone going?
11 replies
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WyattS14 (100 D(B))
16 May 17 UTC
(+1)
History of The Entire World, I Guess
If you haven't watched this video, I urge you to do so right now. (And let's start a discussion, why not? I'd like to hear what Zmaj and James have to say.
https://youtu.be/xuCn8ux2gbs
8 replies
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stranger (525 D)
17 May 17 UTC
convoy rules
If my opponent moves his army from Tuscany to Piedmont and I convoy my Piedmont army to Tuscany via the gulf of lyons at the same time, will they swap places?
8 replies
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