14. 2ndWhiteLine (36)
17. Yaleunc (12-36)
20. rdrivera2005 (36)
27. President Eden (24+)
56. AlexNesta (36)
61. bo_sox48 (24-36)
62. trip (36)
66. VirtualBob (36+)
69. Chaqa (36+)
96. ssorenn (24-36)
100. cardcollector (24-36)
101. mendax (36+)
114. Ogion (24-48 I like 36)
143. MadMarx (36-48)
146. mapleleaf (24-36)
292. TheMinisterOfWar (36+)
346. Socrates Dissatisfied (whatever)
391. Wusti (with the flow)
414. Pjmansfield (24-36)
1094. peterwiggin (24-36)
1330. A_Tin_Can (24+)
1407. Draugnar (24-36)
1489. Hamilton Brian (24+)
XXX. abgemacht (24+)
XXX. Kallen (24+)
XXX. Yonni (36+)
XXX. Alpha@Omega(24-36)

I think we'll be starting these games tomorrow. I'd really like to get 5 games going, so let's get a few more people to sign up.

We need 1 more (if I counted correctly) to get 4 games.

Yeah, but I think we can get 8 more for 5. We're missing a lot of the serial gunbaoters still.

I'd play, but I'll be without internet between the 14th and the 20th.

@Kallen, Russia has several significant disadvantages in gunboat. For starters, Russia has potential conflicts with four different countries in 1901 - England, Germany, Austria, and Turkey. Its highly unlikely that you will be able to avoid having fights on at least two fronts. Second, although Russia has the most units to start, the Russian player is usually forced to make a decision right away about splitting them up, which leads to one of two scenarios: a strong front and a weak front or two middling, two unit fronts, which is not enough to really make an impact. Last, and perhaps most notably, Russia presents an attractive target as the largest power. Being so large is a disadvantage because everyone views you as a threat.

Partysane, I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to get another high level gunboater to sub for you if you want to participate.

#keepmeinthefirstgamepl0x

Wouldn't it make more sense for said high level gunboater to just play themselves instead of subbing for Party for a full week?

It would, Yale. Which is why they should sign up :)

Austria has the same disadvantage as Russia but with one fewer units. Germany, Italy, Russia, and Turkey are it's four neighbors and it doesn't even have a safe border to back up against. The best it has is a slight separation with the Balkans between it and Turkey.

I disagree Draug. Germany and Austria exist in different spheres and Germany would have to be very foolish to attack Austria in the early game in gunboat.

Also, a smart Italian player would do everything in his power to keep from attacking Austria throughout the game, even when things look bleak. Turkey doesn't have the same dependence on Russia and can be equally successful as an early enemy or an early friend.

The statement was "Russia has potential conflicts with four different countries in 1901"

I am merely pointing out that Austria has 4 potential conflicts in 01.The fact that those potential conflicts are mitigated by other circumstances doesn't mean those potential enemies are being controlled by people who understand those circumstances.

Austria doesn't have the same disadvantage as Russia for a few reasons.

1. While they share four neighbors, all four neighbors can plausibly attack Russia and expect to advance their win condition. Germany attacking Austria is tantamount to suicide. So while Austria has the same number of neighbors, it has one fewer threat.
2. Austria can meaningfully combine its forces in its defense; all three of its units can defend against at least two of the three powers that might realistically threaten it. Russia, in contrast, only has two units that can defend against the majority of the powers that threaten it.
3. Most importantly, Austria has an opening (the Southern Hedgehog) that allows it to deter any realistic attack against it; this happens because Austria is compact enough to project force into the relatively small windows of attack (namely Venice/Trieste/Tyrolia and Galicia). Russia cannot defend itself from everything that could happen, so it often comes down to having the right units in the right place at the right time as to whether or not you succeed or fail in maintaining territorial integrity in the first couple of years.

Basically Austria's weaknesses are lesser than Russia's and Austria has the ability to project force into those weak spots and proactively defend itself. Russia's weaknesses are bigger than Austria's and it lacks the ability to be proactive in its defense.

OK, yes, if your neighbors don't understand the strategic picture of the game at all, Austria as well as any other country on the board can be quickly annihilated due to suicidal attacks from incompetent players. That doesn't advance the discussion in any meaningful sense. Why bother bringing it up?

The only country that has a realistic danger of getting piled on by four nations in 1901 is Russia.

Cause I'm an idiot at gunboat. Ain't you figured that out yet?

Have you ever seen Germany and Austria fight in 1901 in press either?

Press is different, bo. Totally different game *especially* in 1901. I can usually get a triple build Germany in Press. I doubt many people get a triple build Germany in 1901 in gunboat. I do more negotiating before the first phase runs in full press games where as gunboat Spring 01 is a crap shoot no matter what nation you are playing. You just have to decide if you are going with a safe set of moves or throwing caution to the wind and hoping your neighbors play it safe.

I've seen plenty of triple German builds in 1901 gunboats. And yes, I know that press and gunboat are different games, but since you are basing your assertion simply on the number of immediate neighbors a country has and only that, I think you can bunch any classic game - full, public, and no press - into the same category unless you branch out your logic.

@party

Please feel free to sign up. We can pause on those dates.

Then i am in.

Can you add yourself to the list please

@Bo - I'm not going to argue with you. The discussion was constrained to gunboat. To make an assertion outside of gunboat would be like discussing naval combat in the time of sail and then deciding it is fair to apply the same comparisons to modern naval warfare with nuclear submarines.

Sorry that you can't accept that I'm right about this one, Mr. "I'm an idiot at gunboat"...

Your analogy is illogical. You are not correct that my simplification is "the same" as yours. I was dealing with two nations within the same rules of the game, just over looking subtleties and readily admit those subtleties make all the difference between the nations. You changed the rules of the game. That is not the same analogy.

I for one am completely ok with taking a weeklong break for Partysane

You assumed the game was played by mind-numb robots, so I assumed the game was played by one person as seven different players. Both are just as stupid. I don't know why we're having this discussion in the first place - Russia is more challenging than Austria, we all know it, so that's it.