@Krellin
I will admit, as I have before that he does not always follow the law exactly, and sometimes not fairly either. Note that following the law exactly and following it fairly are often inconsistent with each other, and very hard. I can't think of any executive body that manages it well. Good, that's out of the way.

You make a valid point, to a certain extent in your second paragraph. I agree that there is equal protection from the law for citizens. Of course, we are dealing with corporations here, which are tricky. They pay taxes and have income, but are not citizens. If they become citizens, sure. I don't think they should be able to. As citizens they would gain a vote, and the vote would be in the control of someone who already has a vote. We have a specific code of laws for citizens, corporations, and their interactions. I think, as the ACA is currently law, and as there is no reason for corporations to have payment delayed, they should start paying for it with everyone else.

Now, one thing I don't understand, that I would like explained. What is the basis for opposition to universal federal health care? Perhaps if I understand your position, our argument will start to actually help us.

Phil - don't play the "corporations" card - its disengenuous. The employees - just like private citizens not in a corporation - are the ones that will or will not be subjected to the ACA.

That you think the ACA is law and therefore corporations should pay is fine and dandy...OBama thinks differently and won't negotiate with Republicans unless they make individuals abide by the law that HE PERSONALLY said corporations don't have to abide by. So your opinion matter not a bit...it is Obama that is playign both sides of the fence.

My specific objection to the ACA is not relevant to the discussion.

Well said, krellin. Maybe it's a bit more of a true impasse than I had thought.

@Krellin
What Obama is doing with the ACA is annoying and kinda stupid. I agree that it should be stopped. Until corporations have to pay, the people shouldn't have to either, but I'm afraid this will result in a year of nonpayment for anyone and the effective loss of the ACA.

Here is why I blame Obama:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmqdiDrDIrU

Do US Citizens deserve Rand Paul?

"Do US Citizens deserve Rand Paul?"

I wish.

great video fasces :)

Still, if all of the compromises offered suspend obamacare, it's not compromise at all. I wouldn't accept that either, and I'm glad they aren't.

As Rand Paul and McConnell admitted, "compromise" is just a propaganda tactic, a talking point based on what slogans are poll testing well. What we knew all along.

And where did Paul and McConnell admit this? You love to make claims without citations lately. I have been going the other way, citing *every* claim I make. Interesting how the tables have turned.

lately? lol It's ironic, isn't it, that Putin, the master of lies, claimed recently that fiction is a worthless art form. Seems to me he was just trying to stifle the competition, as the boy doesn't seem to have any acquaintance with facts in his own life.

"Still, if all of the compromises offered suspend obamacare, it's not compromise at all. I wouldn't accept that either, and I'm glad they aren't."
One of them (according to my republicans facebook freinds) required a full implementation of Obamacare prior to the 2014 midterm (under the argument that republicans know it will be a trainwreck, so long as Americans can see it first hand they can win in 2014).

I haven't been able to verify this.

"As Rand Paul and McConnell admitted, "compromise" is just a propaganda tactic, a talking point based on what slogans are poll testing well. What we knew all along."
You bend their words, when Paul complained about polls, he never said compromise was a poll slogan, what he said is that he thinks the democrats refusal to compromise wont poll well.

We all know Joe the Plumber is the real culprit we should be blaming.

This is hilarious- It what looks like a spiteful move, the NPS even removed handles from water spigots along the Chesapeake and Ohio canal where bikers and joggers exercise as well as along the Great Allegheny Passage, just to ensure people don't get any water from them.

Instead of saving money, the NPS is expending additional resources to go out of its way to close such locations and to make people miserable.

There's really no scenario where this ends well for the NPS. First, several of their workers have lost their wages, workers are working without pay, and when the dust settles, heads will roll in subsequent investigations. The NPS is making itself unpopular with the American public....

http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=52673

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/rand-paul-mitch-mcconnell-hot-mic_n_4036591.html

"I have been going the other way, citing *every* claim I make. Interesting how the tables have turned."

What, wikipedia? Congrats.

I'm the only person who you cons demand a source from every 3 seconds, and have to hold your hand and read the thing to you because you cons are too lazy to read.

"Democrats, including Obama, have said they won't negotiate on the issue"

Your Huff post article says exactly what I said, you just totally spinned the words.

I did not spin anything. They said they are repeating the "compromise" line over and over, because they think the Democrats "no compromise" position doesn't poll test well. It's all just propaganda for poll testing.

I have too many food options at the buffet for lunch.
My internet isn't as fast I want it to be.
My phone doesn't have enough of a charge on it.
1 of my peanut M&M's out of a 3 pound bag didn't have a peanut in it.
I have a long way to walk from my parking spot to my destination from my brand new car.
There are too many pokemon for me to catch 'em all.
Thanks Obama.

There were less presents under Christmas tree this year than there were last year.
Thank Obama.

Well, Fasces, whether that offer existed or not doesn't change much - there would be grand consequences to forcing into immediate effect a plan that was designed to roll out over 5+ years. They're still trying to change the law, rather than fund it. Not a compromise at all.

I can't get my code to compile.

Obama's fault.

I'm sitting through a double econ.

Fuck you Obama.

'Well, Fasces, whether that offer existed or not doesn't change much - there would be grand consequences to forcing into immediate effect a plan that was designed to roll out over 5+ years. They're still trying to change the law, rather than fund it. Not a compromise at all."
How is going from defunding to changing not considered compromising?

Well, the law has passed. You don't get a 2nd chance to block it.

You can TRY by pulling this kind of stunt, but we all know it's going to be the Republicans who crack first on this one. Obamacare WILL go into effect.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/mccain-to-fox-news-no-the-shutdown-is-the-gop-s-fault-video

McCain speaks the obvious truth. When will the right slip out of crazytown and listen?

Also, the expression on the anchor's face as the camera fades out is epic.

I'm fairly certain that krellin is Obama's fault.

Based on his not knowing the classic definition of a developing nation, I'd say so.