I don't want to waste my vote. I'm surprised that you want to waste yours.

So keep the pressure on Maniac and hope I am right, roger. Well bo if you are town and we win, it was nice playing with you. If you are scum and you win, this will be a reversal of M11. Would you like to join me on Maniac then and see if we are right?

Ahh hell, that made no sense, even to me. I need sleep. Night night.

You already joined me on Maniac awhile back. It's not exactly a bold statement for me to vote for him at this stage of things. Right now, I want the lurkers to come out.

Allright, once again apologies for my absence this weekend. Like I said I was at the f2f diplomacy tournament in amsterdam (and was playing the tourist yesterday).

First things first, I see people have made a ruckus about me thinking Espi was going to be at the tournament as well. The explanation is very simple - He quoted captainmeme stating he would also attend the tournament and I missed the part where it was a quote. When he later briefly talked about his weekend plans (also being indisposed on saturday and sunday) I automatically interpreted it as him also being there. Captainmeme actually noted my mistake and sent me this little pm:

"captainmeme
Fri 01 PM
I don't think Espi is going to the NDC - he was quoting me saying that I would be at the tournament..."

" To: captainmeme
Fri 01 PM
You sent: Unless im really terrible at reading he will be there - he even asked for a temp sitter "

" To: captainmeme
Fri 01 PM
You sent: oh wow youre right actually. He kept going on later about his plans in the weekend, but I guess theyre just different plans. I suck "

Yes I can make a screenshot of the pm's if you want - it was just a silly misunderstanding. It is very interesting to me however how Maniac dives on this to fully scumread me....right after I continued voting for him (as the only person on D2 mind you).

As a matter of fact, maniac has been one of my biggest scumreads from the start. Plenty of people have already made cases against him so I wont scan 48 pages again to find the quotes.

On day 1 Maniac was actually allmost lynched. Official vote count #8:
Day 1 Official Vote Count #8

Maniac (5): ghug, bo_sox48, Espi, Vecna, Yoyoyozo
Espi (4): Maniac, guak, Jeff Kuta, wjessop
Jeff Kuta (1): DeathLlama8
wjessop (1): ND

Not voted: BloodWolf99697

Currently MANIAC is set to be lynched! 1 hour 22 minutes remain.

Im going to analyze now to see what happened for people to steer off of him and onto ND, because I believe it might just lead us in the right direction:

"ESPI: @all guys are we wrong about Maniac? This feels too easy right now. I don't like this, not one bit at all. Is Maniac's post him just saying he isn't interested, him trying to get us to lose interest in him so he can continue to lurk as scum or something else? I don't know what to make of it.

ESPI: @yoyo I feel like I am making a mistake about Maniac, I was so sure he was scum but it seems like this is too easy. I am trying to make any connections about what is going on that I can and it just felt... off. I also don't like that we only have 2 mislynches. If Maniac is town then I become the next logical lynch choice and we lose. I want to be right but I am afraid that I am wrong.

WJESSOP: The Maniac train is clearly being pushed to counter the votes Espi.

The best slip we have so far still rests on Espi when he said he wanted to help us find "the rest of the scum".

GHUG: @ND, jessop townread me hard, I've repeatedly blamed his big arguments on others, and my constant descriptions of your intellect could easily be seen as an attempt to undermine his main opponent.

If you were town, you would be scumreading me. ##VOTE ND

WJESSOP: @ND:

Thanks for explaining that for everyone.

When ND says "anytime anyone votes for him" he's literally just referring to himself.

And id voted for ND before he even scumread me.

Espi's vote on me lasted less than a minute. My vote on him was on most of the game.

Either you're scum -- or you're tunneling; because you're overstating your case on me at every stage. It's terrible play if you're town.

GHUG: Yes Espi, I do.

Vote for ND with me, jessop. Help the wagon take off.

WJESSOP: @ND: it's not argument. You're manipulating, misrepresenting, and overstating almost all of your points.

Exaggerating and lying is bad for town.

Either you're exhibiting a terrible turn as town, or you're scum.

People should decide between ND or Espi.

@Vecna: I disagree with that wjessop. Either its the ND/maniac choice or its Espi. But if you think ND is scum it makes no sense to think Espi is scum as well. Both of them were leading the charge against him so hard at the start and Espi being so close to execution is mainly due to ND's case and Maniac bandwagoning on it.

WJESSOP: @ghug: I agree. ND's play is extremely disapointing. He's pushing relentlessly hard on me as he did as scum in the previous game. With ND pushing me so hard, it's bizarre that his "links" are so weak.

VECNA: Like I said before, my vote will be on either Maniac or ND, ive been switching based on popular opinion and will do so as well close to the deadline based on whoever I think of the two is more likely to get executed.

WJESSOP: @Vecna: scum often start by voting early against scum teammates and then moving off and "changing their mind". I think this may be what happened here with ND.

You don't like what, Espi?

GHUG: Wj, Vecna, join me on ND. It takes a vote away from each of Maniac and Espi, so it doesn't hurt the odds of either of you getting your other target lynched.

@Vecna: @ghug I really feel like the outcome will be determined by the last minute changes of heart regardless - Jeff, Guak etc might just swoop in and swing the entire thing in a random direction.

Also for my choice; At least ND comes out and tries to defend his choices with some arguments (even though I dont agree with the conclusions he draws, at least he shows us his thought pattern). As per bo's reasoning this provides more information alter on and keeps the game more interesting I feel, so I would prefer to lynch Maniac still (who just comes in at times and tosses a few random, poorly argumented comments around). Anyways I will join the bandwagon on either of these targets as I said.

@Espi, youre still not 100% out of the clear in my book either - As Wjessop asked, why do you not like the votes for ND or maniac? Im really confused.

ESPI: Can I even vote for ND? I have said time and time again that I thought he was likely to be town, and my switching votes right now is the scummiest thing I can do. Hell, since you are trying to sway votes onto him it makes me look like I just simply followed you onto it to take no blame myself if he pops up as town.

Why am I so tempted to vote for ND?

GHUG: Vecna, you want the lynch to be between your top scumreads. Help the wagon to take off

VECNA: @ghug, right now my top pick is set to be lynched, so im going to be holding off for a little while longer

Day 1 Official Vote Count #10

Maniac (4): bo_sox48, Espi, Vecna, Yoyoyozo
Espi (3): Maniac, guak, Jeff Kuta
ND (2): ghug, wjessop
Jeff Kuta (1): DeathLlama8
wjessop (1): ND

WJESSOP: @Vecna: If u had two choices to pick from, I'd err on picking the one who'd provided more content for me to reach my decision.

I dislike the crux argument on lynching Manuac because he hasn't provided enough. That's not adequate reasoning for a Day 1 lynch.

ESPI: @DL get people to vote for Jeff and I might just join you, I am uncertain about Maniac now as well.

ESPI: Alright, DL, lets test this. >>>If no one bites I am going back to Maniac.<<<

##VOTE Jeff Kuta

Vote him with me and it will be 2 of us there.

ESPI: @dl what do you think about all of this? If we both go onto ND he dies. wj and ghug are speaking to me right now but they also don't have a lot to go on.

ESPI: Fuck...

I am so going to regret this. ##Vote ND please be right, please be right, please be right.

GHUG: Alright, we need some more. DL? Yoyo? Blood with a last minute vote to save himself from modkill?

VECNA: If im voting for ND now it just forced him to vote on espi though.....if yoyo changes to ND I will as well

GHUG: Vec, just do it. I'll move back to Maniac with you if it fails.

YOYO: Ok by virtue of the fact that ND will give us more, I'll vote for him
##Vote ND
I also dont like that he's holding his vote in reserves. Seems off to me.

GHUG: DL, come on. ND's scum. Let's go.

MANIAC: At his is tough...a couple of things Espi has done in last few pages have made me question my read on him big time.

I don't have any scum reads on anyone else, but feel I need to give Espi a break

##vote ND

WJESSOP: @Espi: If anyone switches to Maniac, I will switch and have you killed.

Epsi or ND, that has been my case from my reads list -- the majority of people here haven't even pegged themselves to reads.

And ND has made only one case this entire game. He's relying on a trick that worked in M13 but is not working here.

So the vote changed from espi, to maniac to ND. Ghug and Wjessop were the main instigators of the last change with Espi showing that he's quite happy with changing (and no reasoning at all). Maniac also comes in last minute and changes his vote off of espi to kill our investigator.

Right now im nearly 100% convinced that both Espi and Maniac are scum. Quite conveniently the two people that could realize they lead the train off of the actual scum people have been mysteriously nightkilled. - right before they could lead the train back onto the right people. I now intend to do this.

Scumreads:

ESPI + MANIAC + ?

Townreads:: Yoyo (has been my townread together with wjessop from like page 10 or so)

Unclear: The rest of the people could all be the third scum id say. DL is the most likely id say since he also jumped on the ND wagon without any reasoning on day 1 and lead the jeff train on day2.

For now im going with my primary vote that ive been casting the entire game. Maniac has been escaping the lynch the entire game. He'll die and we lynch espi next if he turns up scum (which he will). Im ofcourse fine with doing it the other way around as well.

##vote maniac

@vecta - don't take this the wrong way - but you're a dumbass.

We can only work with what you say. When you said something to the effect that you were going to be in Amsterdam with Espi, it was right for Wjessop to question you and Espi on how you knew Espi was going to be there. When no satisfactory answers were forthcoming it was correct for people to vote for either of you.

Now you have provided an explanation we can look at it again, and the interaction with CaptJeff is town indicative - even though ##CallGM may have something to say about that.

What you can't do is blame people like me for scum reading you on what you actually said. It was your mistake that led a lot of people down the wrong path and then neither you or espi did anything to correct the misunderstanding.

##GM NOTE

Maniac I don't know what you're saying I should speak on

Captmeme PMing vecna

##GM NOTE

I don't take too much issue with the particular PM's being shown in this thread. They skirt a line without crossing it. I expect you all to understand that talking about this game's particulars over private chat is completely unacceptable while alive in the game. I also expect dead players to refrain from discussing game specifics with alive players. Don't push the line and ruin the game.

Thanks y2k

##unvote vecna

I can't see why capt would tell scum vecna that he had made a mistake in thinking espi was going to NDC. I think capt would be quite happy for town to lynch scum vecna based on a false premise. Therefore I now think vecna is soft cleared town.

How does that soft-clear him? I'm not getting it.

@Vecna ... first off, when you're quoting, don't quote their votes. It counts as a vote of your own.

Secondly, where is the analysis of the ND wagon? I see a bunch of quotes with no commentary.

@bo - if I was dead town watching scum vecna being scum read on a misunderstanding, I'd keep quiet. If I'm dead town watching town vecna being scum read, I might be tempted to nudge vecna via PMs.

Fair enough. What's your read on guak?

I don't have one. Up until a few hours ago my scum team was vecna and espi for sure, then toss up between yoyo and you (Bo). By default that left guak and deathllama as town but they haven't done enough to clear themselves. The vecna revelation throws a lot of my thinking out the window, including my read on you. I'm not sure about yoyo, I didn't like his tying the vote D3 but I feel mafia killing wjessop when I had yoyo or Wjessop as my third scum could be them manipulating me to lynch yoyo. I'm aware that last bit is WIFOM.

Now vecna is soft-cleared in my eyes I have to re-llok at everything from that perspective.

Are you willing to vote for someone like guak who you know would be here by now if he were town?

No - I need full re-read which I'm struggling with

All right, let me know what you get from it.

For now, ##VOTE guak. Lurking is his MO but he is taking it too far.

Ok ##VOTE Vecna
Why?
His reads have been very stagnant for the past few days. Shows a set agenda
Comes out of no where with a scum read of Maniac, who is likely his partner, claiming he's scum read him for a while
Becomes extraordinarily active for the first half of D1, only to lurk through the latter half and the entirety of N1, D2, and N2.

Afte wjessop flipped town, it's almost impossible for espi to be scum. Scum wouldve given up trying to get him lynched a long time ago.
Bo is dumb
That leaves DL, Guak, Maniac, and Vecna.

Maniac has been acting wierd this entire game. I'm not going to act on this gut suspicion but vecna has done plenty of scummy things, many of them linking him to Maniac, such as his scum read on him based on his voting, which is dumb. There is plenty of info we have in this game, and he's demonstrated phenomenal insight into the game very early on, but he seems to not care.

RIP Wjessop, sorry for not checking the game earlier

@yoyo - ive been reasonably active whenever I was around. I did tell you that I was in amsterdam playing a face2face diplomacy tournament. If being inactive during one of those type of events is really a scumread from your pov then....wow

As for my reads, why would I change them when there have been no actions by the persons that would cause me to change my mind? Maniac indeed has been my top scum read all throughout this game. So yes I do have a set agenda - to get him lynched. I have actually tried to save wjessop from getting lynched by continuously telling people I was under the strong impression he was town - And he survived so that the scum had to waste/use their NK on him.

And no I did not come out of nowhere with my scumread of maniac. Ive been arguing and pushing that case since Day1. Your reasoning here is quite flawed in my opinion.

Also if you really think Espi cannot turn out scum after all that has transpired in this game (and you keep claiming this) then you just might be the #3 on the Espi/Maniac scumteam

Wait, I think Bo is scum!

We all know that Bo thought it was MYLO, as evidenced by him voting to concede the game. We also know that Bo thought Jeff was town and Espi scum. In such a close vote, Bo need not have worried about a tie in MYLO - obviously a tie is far better than a mislynch and insta-loss.

Taking that into mind, I don't think Bo's attempt to push the lynch from Jeff to Espi was really all that strong enough, especially since he was the only Espi-lynch supporter on. If Bo really thought it was MYLO, this is silly. ##VOTE BO

What would town-Bo do in MYLO with a scumread of his narrowly behind a townread of his?

"I have no idea what Jeff is doing, but the fact that his wagon just can't seem to pick up steam indicates he might be scum too, so I am quite confused despite what I thought 10 minutes ago." -pg42, long after Jeff's wagon picked up steam

"I don't think Jeff is as scummy as Espi."

"Jeff is just as dumb as he always is. I have only seen him play smartly as mafia, though he misinterpreted me as saying otherwise earlier. He is dumb and useless as town. The meta fits."

No other attempt to lead the lynch onto Espi? Why not? @Bo - explain yourself!

@Vecna that tournament you said would last 48 hours. It's been, what, 2 or 3 days after the tournament end? Not a valid excuse anymore.

Also, not sure if you are aware, but my point was that you are scum reading who I suspect may be your partner. You've actually strengthened my point that your reads are stagnant, because you know who is town and scum. You have done a shitty job pushing for him, I might add, but then again scum don't actually want to have their buddies lynch, they just want to take some credit when it does happen.

Now it makes more sense that you've been scum reading him this entire time, as you seem like the type of scum that would want to have some kind of accuracy to your reads, no?

Yoyo, why is your reason for town-reading bo "Bo is dumb"?