FYI I didn't tunnel on ND, he tunnelled me and made everyone think he was scum.

What aren't you surprised about Yoyo?

@wj .. as I told you before, and as you completely ignored, I was not online for the start or the end of the ND wagon. My complete uninvolvement in it is not alignment indicative in either direction because I never had a chance to see it or weigh in on it at all.

As for voting Espi D2, he and Maniac were my top scumreads. The Maniac wagon was fading and I thought that I caught Espi in a slip, but I was wrong there. Either way, I wasn't scumreading Jeff as hard as I was either Maniac or Espi.

There you go, blaming the mislynched townie again.

I don't like following the crowd as town but I disagree with your assessment that I was off the main candidates on both D1 and D2. Once again, I wasn't around at any point immediately preceding the D1 deadline, and Maniac could have happened. Ghug dropped that wagon, not me. On D2, again, Maniac could have happened. It fell apart late. I jumped ship to Espi at that point, who was certainly a main D2 candidate. How you consider him otherwise is beyond me given that it was only a late push that I didn't like that put Jeff ahead of him in the first place.

"@wj .. as I told you before, and as you completely ignored, I was not online for the start or the end of the ND wagon. My complete uninvolvement in it is not alignment indicative in either direction because I never had a chance to see it or weigh in on it at all."

I didn't ignore this -- I just don't buy it.

Do you expect people to lap up everything you say?

I won't dance to your tune, bo. You're not so special.

"Well, that was expected. Can't say that I'm at the least bit surprised. "

@Yoyo: then why did you vote for Jeff?

The lynch outcome. I feel that there were 2 townies up for lynch yesterday, Espi and Jeff. That means that there were 2 townies up for lynch D1, Espi and ND. This means that mafia are likely the ones controlling discussion. Very unlikely that we are soo bad that we could put absolutely no scum on the block. You know who's been one of the biggest talkers lately? Wjessop. You know who's pushed the lynches of ALL of the people on the block? Wjessop.

^response to your first question

I'll get to my reasons for voting jeff at EON.

There is no meta at all to suggest that I'm scum.

ND's case was extremely weak -- everyone agreed this.

You're the one who is "the least bit surprised" that Jeff flipped town but, yet, you voted for Jeff at the End of the Day.

Espi and Wjessop will be pushed as the obvious targets for Day 3 lynch.

Town should look elsewhere.

@wj ... you don't buy my alibi? I work at Domino's in Highwood, Illinois. Check the schedule. Then look at the ND wagon, when you and ghug started it through EOD. I wasn't online.

Youre missing the point. It's not that I don't believe you weren't online. That's inconsequential; its about how you decided your vote. It's just that I don't buy that you couldn't posdibly have realised that your lynch candidate wasn't to to work.

And I'm not saying this certifies you as scum -- I'm just observing this voting situation -- so there's really no need for you to be so defensive.

I'm not being defensive. I'm simply repeating myself over and over again. I'll do it once more.

How do you think I decided to vote for Maniac? I did so long before the deadline. It was a pretty surefire case that had plenty of support, particularly from ghug, who I TRed fairly early on (though, to be fair, I always do - he's good at that). I figured that it would go somewhere. I went to work the next morning and didn't see the game until after the deadline, 12 hours later. I'm not sure what you want me to tell you other than that I made my case against Maniac, ghug made his, and it looked like he would be on the block until ghug dropped his case for ND's.

"I'm not being defensive."

Typical of someone being defensive to say this. --Or so I was told in M12.

I'm glad we had this discussion, wjessop.

This night is colder than last night with fewer bodies to help keep everyone warm. 5 hours 24 minutes remain in Night 2.

I am in and out right now, my apartment is being worked on and I am still busy packing and getting ready to move. I was told everything should be done in the next few hours, so I hope to have 3 hours to do an analysis, at the worst I will have just around 1 hour before EON. If for some reason I am unable to get back to the computer, and I am killed tonight, good luck.

I will be on my phone checking in every now and then but will likely just be reading back through the thread and preparing an analysis.

I won’t be able to post this later but may still be able to follow thread.

Page: 41 WJessop makes a case against Espi. I’m a little concerned about his first point that ND first makes a case against Espi as this is selective, later on ND says Espi is a red herring. Wjessop using dead townies to make his case is fair enough even though he tries to criticize others for doing just that. However, WJessop does make perhaps the strongest case I’ve seen against Espi and Vecna where he says that “5. After Night 1, Vecna knew Espi would be busy at a gaming event this weekend, even though Espi hadn't mentioned it in the forum. How did Vecna know if it wasn't sonething they mentioned in Mafia chat? Espi can't explain this.” To my knowledge neither vecna nor Espi have provided a satisfactory answer to this.
I felt (and still feel) that this is damning more against vecna than it is against Espi as there is a possibility that vecna gained the information 3rd hand rather than from Espi direct. I tell WJessop that I like this part of his case and say I’ll vote vecna on the strength of it (as well as for other reasons). WJessop agrees that it implicates both of them.

WJessop had made comments that “It gobsmacks me that anyone could think Espi should stay with us based on all of this [his case on pg41].” Remember this as WJessop moved off Espi later. Remember too that Wjessop never voted for vecna even though he provided compelling proof that vecna had gained inside info from the mafia thread.

This leads us to the vote count on pg41:
“Day 2 Official Vote Count #3

wjessop (2): Jeff Kuta, Espi
Maniac (2): bo_sox48, Vecna
Espi (2): wjessop, Yoyoyozo
Jeff Kuta (1): DeathLlama8
Vecna (1): Maniac

Not voted: guak

Currently NO ONE is set to be lynched! 2 hours 28 minutes remain.”

Then Guak comes in agrees with WJessop and votes Espi

Although I still think vecna is the logical lynch I see it isn’t happening and vote Espi.

This leads us to…
“Day 2 Official Vote Count #4

Espi (4): wjessop, Yoyoyozo, guak, Maniac
wjessop (2): Jeff Kuta, Espi
Maniac (2): bo_sox48, Vecna
Jeff Kuta (1): DeathLlama8

Currently ESPI is set to be lynched! 35 minutes remain.”

Bo who thinks both yoyo and I (Maniac) are scum also votes Espi giving his alleged slip as a reason.

Espi is online but never addresses the main point against him and says people are voting for him for dumb shit.

Jeff pops up and joins the Espi train without stating a reason.

Wjessop queries my comment about driving home and votes Jeff saying he is as scummy as hell. I don’t understand Wjessop at this point, town should be making cases like WJessop’s against Espi/Vecna and try to get others to vote for their preferred candidate. It doesn’t matter if he thinks Jeff is busing the correct play is lynch top read, then analyse train to see if anyone bussed, not jump to lynching a possible busser before alignment of candidate is known.

WJessop’s vote for Jeff sets up the whole train of events that leads to Jeff’s death.
Espi then votes jeff – understandable regardless of Espi’s alignment. He wants to save himself.

This gives us…

“Espi (5): Yoyoyozo, guak, Maniac, bo_sox48, Jeff Kuta
Jeff Kuta (3): DeathLlama8, wjessop, Espi
Maniac (1): Vecna”

5 minutes to go yoyo asks “Ermm, is any willing to sitch with me onto jeff?”

No one replies.

Espi says “@bo and Yoyo, come on, we can do this. You both join me and Jeff dies.”
Yoyo says “Bo come on [][]vote jeff” Bo had never indicated that he might vote Jeff (as far as I know). Why is yoyo tying the vote so late on?

I (Maniac) then switch to break the tie and because Jeff was also a scum read of mine.

No one else votes in last few minutes and Jeff dies. Any switch from Jeff to Espi would have tied the vote which would be bad for town and I think all scum would know how scummy it would look.

Reads – if espi is town then people like Guak, Deathllama and vecna are possibly scum sitting back and watching town v town battles.

Tomorrow in order to win all four town must vote the same way as if three mafia vote on same candidiate it only takes one townie to side with them and it’s game over. Anybody on a third candidate tomorrow is moronic.

I think the only logical outcome of this game is to lynch vecna, if he is town we lose (obviously) but he can’t be trusted to be on at day’s end and he has massive smoking gun case against him – his knowledge of espi’s movements. If vecna flips Scum, we then lynch Espi and if espi flips scum I think the final choice will be between Wjessop and Yoyo. The fact Wjessop made good case against Espi and vecna but lynched Jeff is telling against him. However he did alert us to the vecna/espi slip, is it possible Wjessop would bus both his scum buddies?

Yoyo tying the lynch is a huge scum indicator, but rest of his play hasn’t stood out as being scummy.

TL:DR
All town vote vecna tomorrow, if he is scum, all town lynch Espi next day.

If we get down to 2 v 1 then I just hope good town players are still around to figure it out.

Umm @Maniac. You haven't been reading what I have been reading. 1 post under the vote count with 35 minutes remaining on page 41 I came online, before that I was not online. 2 posts under the 35 minutes remaining I posted the time line for the Vecna thing. I also made a timeline of what happened regarding votes on me on page 45. Was there another main point against me? There was no Vecna/Espi slip, so if you are making a case of that that it means nothing to me. Have you been reading the thread?

@all seriously guys, has anyone been reading the thread? I see no major cases, posting is lackluster, most of us can be defined as lurking, and the 2 people that we have lynched, were lynched because of dumb stuff.

@Maniac/Yoyo/bo/guak/DL you guys have experience at this game. There are 5 of you, so it is impossible that more than 3 of you are scum. Where are you, we need you!

@all as an update, waiting one one last person to work on the apartment, on computer now but only have a few minutes. Hope they finish soon so I can make a case.

For clarity post your response to the main issue here Espi

The wjessop post on me from 1 pm on sunday, page 41

"You still can't call me scum. You're voting me even though I'm your town read.
This came up when Bo challenged you on this as well.
On my phone so keeping this brief:
1. Espi was first scum read by ND.
2. Espi replied that he was honestly trying to "find the rest of the scum".
3. Espi didn't explain his votes or make proper cases in Day 1, apart from a very hedgey reads list.
4. Espi sheeped the ND vote last minute at EOD1.
5. After Night 1, Vecna knew Espi would be busy at a gaming event this weekend, even though Espi hadn't mentioned it in the forum. How did Vecna know if it wasn't sonething they mentioned in Mafia chat? Espi can't explain this.
6. Espi is voting wjessop even though he reads Wjessop as town; saying that it's a good vote because wjessop makes the game difficult for Espi.
7. If you ignore all of the above, remember most importantly that I caught Espi out on his "stupid" "dumb townie" character that he was trying to play in the game -- that is not the real Espi -- and Espi has since admitted that he was putting this act on. This alone is enough to understand that Espi from the outset has been playing duplicitously and in a way that is unhelpful to town. His posts were intentional waffle and wilfully ambiguous and unhelpful.
If you ignore everything else, this last point should be taken exteemely seriously and Espi should be voted out of this game.
Itgobsmacks me that anyone could think Espi should stay with us based on all of this.
%%vote Espi"

my response, samepage, 5:31 pm

"Page 28 I said "Well it is late and I should probably head to bed. BTW guys I will be busy this weekend, and I don't know if I will be around much for EOD D2. Saturday I will be gone just after 7pm and on sunday I won't be free until about 7 pm, I should be able to pull a few minutes away though, my group usually ends just a bit early so I might catch the last 20 or so minutes of whatever is going on. My apologies, I didn't look at a calendar to realize this until now. Sunday will be D2 EOD right? "
Page 29 and 3 hours later Vecna says this"Just as espi I will be at the amsterdam tournament this weekend btw. My responses will be very limited, starting exactly 24 hours from now, and lasting roughly 36-40 hours.
Answering some of the questions directed at me in a bit, just woke up and heading for work/class "
So how does that mean anything?"

Is that what you requested?

Thx Espi - Wjessop comment please?

My main questions right now:

1.) Where's guak?
2.) Where's Vecna?
3.) Where's DL?

Wjessop, Maniac, Espi, Yoyo, and myself are at the very least talking, even if we're not getting anywhere.

Heres what I found by just quickly checking back. I found this by starting at page 1, quickly skimming through each page looking for anything that stood out as reads. I have spent the last few hours slowly building this. If I missed anything, please let me know, you all know what and when you posted better than I do. I included the scum reads people had for each case, and some things that are more observations than cases. This was very quick and I might not have counted something you did as a read, please correct me.

I must say that I question all of the comments on who has posted cases and who hasn't. Wjessop has questioned me multiple times, yet he fares no better than I.

---
DAY 1- Pages 1-25
ND posted an observation/read on me, wjessop and ghug on page 5. vecna posted a reads list on page 8 (ND or I and ghug scum). I list the players in the game with a slight opinion on each on page 11 (no scum reads but I will vote for Blood, vecna, Jeff, Maniac, guak, ghug and myself). Right below that on page 11 wjessop posts a reads list (Vecna, ND and I scum). On page 11/12 DL posts somewhat of a case on me. Ghug posts a small case on Maniac on page 13. ND posts an observation/read on wjessop on page 15. On page 16 Maniac posts an observation on bo and myself. Page 17 I pick up a few of ghugs points on Maniac and add more to my case on Maniac. Below that on page 17 wjessop posts an new developments thingy.Below that on page 17 I post a short read (Maniac scum). Page 25 ND posts final instructions (Wjessop and Vecna scum)

Day 1 ends page 25, ND lynched with final vote count.

ND (7): ghug, wjessop, Espi, Vecna, Yoyoyozo, Maniac, DeathLlama8
Espi (2): guak, Jeff Kuta
Maniac (1): bo_sox48
wjessop (1): ND

Not voted: BloodWolf99697

---
Night 1 pages 25-30

Page 25 Wjessop analyzes the votes and splits voters into 2 categories. Page 29 Jeff does short read (bo and I as scum). Page 30 DL posts somewhat of a case on ghug. Below that on page 30 bo posts a short read (Maniac and Jeff scum). Below that Maniac posts on page 30 a read list (Wjessop, Vecna and Captjeff scum). Below that on page 30 ghug posts a reads list (DL and Maniac scum).

Night 1 ends page 30, Ghug NKed.

---
Day 2 Pages 30-43

Page 30 Yoyo posts percentages (wjessop, Jeff and Maniac scum). Below that on Page 30 I post percentages (Jeff and Maniac scum). Page 31 I list lynch targets of Jeff, Maniac, myself and wjessop. Below that on page 31 wjessop posts percentages (Jeff and I scum). Page 33 I list who scum reads me and who voted for me. Below that on Page 33 Yoyo analyzes ghugs death (Maniac, DL and Vecna benefit). Page 35 I compile what I viewed as Wjessops case (Jeff and I scum). Page 36 I post a vote analysis of myself. Page 40 DL reads Maniac (not sure what is his read and what is a quote, possibly Jeff, Vecna and Wjessop scum). Page 41 wjessop posts his reasons for voting me as quoted many times.

Day 2 ends page 43, Jeff lynched with final vote count.

Jeff Kuta (5): DeathLlama8, wjessop, Espi Yoyoyozo, Maniac
Espi (3): guak, bo_sox48, Jeff Kuta
Maniac (1): Vecna

--
Night 2 Pages 43-Current

Page 46. Maniac posts as he did above.

--

Well shoot, this is taking longer then I was told. I don't think I or wjessop will be killed, but just in case.

Scum- Maniac, we have missed 2 shots at him.
Slight Scum- wjessop or bo. Wjessop is playing very poorly in my mind, about as poorly as I am, and he is missing stuff/tunneling. He might change his behavior but I doubt it. Bo is barely posting, didn't know how long town had, doesn't seem rushed at all and despite holding himself in high esteem, hasn't contributed much. Pops in and out mostly around the end of night or day, pops in a few short posts and disappears. Yoyo hasn't shared many of his thoughts so far, like bo pops in and out, claims to have been tracking activity and collecting a document with everyones posts but has yet to share any of this. Claimed he was the only one able to save the situation but also doesn't seem rushed.
Null- Guak, DL, Vecna I don't know who you are or what you are doing. You all could be scum for all I know and just letting town run this.

Hell, to be honest I have no idea. I am going to stick on Maniac due to lack of anything solid on anyone else, and I will hope that I am not Day or Night killed, that Maniac turns out to be scum and with less people around I can find the other 2, and that people step up there games.

To whoever dies, you will soon escape this horrible situation and know more of us.

To whoever lives, please analyze everyones votes, especially EOD. We have aside from myself 4 people, wjessop, Yoyo and Maniac and DL who have voted the same. DL was an early Jeff voter and I don't recall if he was participating at EOD D2, and wjessop was an early ND voter D1, but Maniac and Yoyo voted minutes apart if I recall in both cases.

Running out of time before EON, and extremely tired right now, but analyzing the votes is my priority when I am not getting ready to move.

Once more, good luck! I hope that I have not distracted you all too much, and that what I have compiled before now can help you make your cases. If I die tonight I am really sorry that I played as poorly as I have, and I hope that you don't think too much less of me.

Another note, bo and Maniac are currently listed as online. The time is 5:19 pm est. Everyone else is offline.