Are you on for night chat, so figured you do a bit of extra work in the mafia thread as well??

" It is dumb."

This is the same thing bo said of Jeff Kuta.

Sounds like a common line, a cheap mafia trick.

I'm not working tonight. I have been the past four nights. I have the evening off tonight, though that doesn't mean I will be online the whole time.

I said that Jeff was dumb, which he is. The only time he played wisely was as mafia, a game which I believe he could have won singlehandedly had the cop not revealed him.

Honestly, I think wjessop and I are staying alive tonight. We both are great distractions from eachother. We are the most likely to be lynched, and although we are the most active, we aren't doing a lot of good for the town. A distraction that I pointed out when wjessop and I had our very long back and forth.

I have a question, while I am between making food and packing. What I noticed before I became the main target was people voting me as scum because of Vecna. I made a case on page 41 explaining how that was dumb, but I still don't get if people understood that or how that came up in the first place. I need to re-read everything I skimmed though in order to be around for the last half hour, but could someone explain that for me?

@Espi: Yes, you previously had chosen not to explain Vecna's comments to you.

I reread Vecna's comment though and the thought crossed my mind that maybe Vecna's first language is not English? Is Vecna Dutch? If so, maybe this is why the comment from Vecna has been misinterpreted?

I was not around to explain it. Plus, since it didn't stick out much to me when it happened aside from being confused about how Vecna misunderstood me, I didn't know what comment was being questioned. My last post was at 1:02 pm, at 1:29 pm you made a reason for my lynch, part of it said

"5. After Night 1, Vecna knew Espi would be busy at a gaming event this weekend, even though Espi hadn't mentioned it in the forum. How did Vecna know if it wasn't sonething they mentioned in Mafia chat? Espi can't explain this."

Note that I don't recall being asked to explain this before, nor have I seen you mention it before. This might be my misremembering so if I am wrong please point it out. You and Maniac talk a bit and at 2:05 pm Maniac posts

"@Wjessop - re: your point 5 - Vecna knowing where Espi was. If Espi/Vecna can't answer that then that point is compelling. As it implicates both of them equally and I alreasy have vecna as scum I'd be happier voting Vecna - how does that sound to you?"

At 3:28 pm after more of you and Maniac talking, Maniac posts

"@wjessop - I'm happy to vote vecna if neither he or Espi have replied to your point #5
%% vote vecna"

At 3:32 Maniac posts again

"@wjessop - if your point is compelling it is more compelling against vecna than it is against Espi. Vecna could have received knowledge of espi's whereabouts third hand ( ie from another scum member that Espi had told). If vecna flips scum and Espi hasn't told anyone else where he was it is compelling against Espi - if Espi says he told x of his plans then x becomes a candidate as well.
Based on info you have provided vecna is the logical vote. "

guak comes on at 4:32 pm and posts

"Stupid double posting. Sorry %%VOTE Espi. Wjessop's argument looks spot on for me. I will post more soon "

I am unsure which part of wjessops argument he bought, but so far wjessop, Maniac and guak are voting for vecna (maniac) and me (wjessop and guak) because of that. None of whom went back to research what happened. At 5:06 Maniac posts

"i'm still convinced vecna is the better lynch, but %% vote Espi as I may not be on again. I'm about to drive home and that can take 1hr if traffic bad"

I am now the main lynch target. I get back on at 5:31 and post what actually happened to which wjessop responds at 5:35 with

"Espi, I asked you about this yesterday and you said you didn't know why Vecna knew, that you "couldn't explain it". "

The subject is ignored until at 6:15 pm Maniac posts

"@wjessop - the most compelling case you've made is the knowledge that vecna has about espi's movement. I think it's more compelling against vecna than Espi, but vecna wasn't happening - hence my vote for Espi. When Yoyo ties the vote I switch as Jeff is my personal scum read and it breaks the tie. "

at 7:35 pm I ask about this and start reading back to find out what happened, and at 7:41 wessop responds as he did above

All of this pretty much happened on pages 40-45. I do not understand where all of the confusion came from or how it was justified. I do not understand how wjessop scum read me for this and did not say anything about Vecna.

@wjessop, I am going to look back to see where you ask me to explain myself, but you asked the question and probably know where you would have asked it, do you mind helping me find your question which lead to my almost dying? From my point of view I was voted for because of stupid shit, I was asked to explain myself when I told everyone that I was only going to be on in the last half an hour before EOD if at all, and if I hadn't of made it back, the above is why I would have died. If it wasn't for Jeff voting for me at the end and wjessop leading a massive charge on him, I would be dead right now. WTF guys.

@bo Can you explain this quote

"Never mind, Espi slipped. %%VOTE ESPI, we have all three.

"Well, I don't imagine anyone will be on so I die today. Good luck town, I hope you find scum and win."

If he dies and flips town, the game is over. He slipped in saying that he can die and that we can still find scum down the road, but if he's town, he can't die. "

Espi, it was not just the Vecna thing. Stop running away from your shit. Take ownership.

There were lots of other reasons you were looking scummy -- as you know full well.

I have looked scummy for over 5 days now, there was all of that time in which to vote for me. My wonder is why it all happened last minute and while I was away.

Votes always happen at EOD; just try to be on at EOD.

Look, all Jeff had to do was vote for me with no reason and he gets scum read instantly (although to be fair several people have listed him as a scum read). My death was guaranteed until that. I only voted for him to save my ass and that was stupid of me, pretty much became a de ja vu of my going for ND to save myself, but look at everyone else who switched over too, apparently the cases on me, and all of the votes on me, were able to go onto a completely different target that DL sat on within minutes. Ohh, speaking of the cases on me. The page 41 case on me by wjessop was the first time I had seen him compile any information on me, before he had only responded to individual statements of mine, without compiling any of it into a read, while he also criticizes me of making short reads and not having read anyone. I had said this multiple times but it seems to go unnoticed.

Already explained, Espi. I miscounted, thought it was MYLO. My error.

@bo we have been talking about the current situation for practically the entire game, how did you miscount?

Have you not been reading the thread to know that it was a thing? I swear I have mentioned it every few pages.

what a scumbo.

wj were you talking to me or bo?

Sorry, Espi, it was a subtle play on words. I have a very dry humour that sometimes is undetectable.

so I wasn't really talking to anyone, but I was referring to bo.

Ohh, scum-bo gotcha, sorry, tired. I thought it was more a play on scum and dumbo. Spent way too much time Saturday night playing games, and didn't get enough sleep today before a long DnD session. Imma go to bed soon.

Playing games and starting at screens without enough sleep can lead to late-onset autism.

Get to bed!

But reading through this is so much more fun compared to sleeping and packing :(

@MEME, if you're in the God Thread:

Please can you explain why you posted fake breadcrumbs for the cop role?

I'd really like to understand this as soon as this game is finished.

I imagine it's got more than me confused.

Wj, doing this thing where you call someone scum without a) evidence, or b) reasoning of any kind, you are doing exactly what you are criticizing guak for doing in the M15 sign up thread. Calling something a "cheap mafia trick" is not a very effective strategy. In fact, it's the kind of ambiguity and unspecificness that scum would use when "scumhunting" - you know, since they can't actually scumhunt. You might even say that it is a cheap mafia trick.

See what I did there?

By being unspecific and tunneling, which you are currently doing to me and did to ND, you are intentionally avoiding having to do serious scumhunting. You make your life a lot easier by acting confident and yet making your points in such a way that they can't be refuted because you didn't say anything controversial in the first place. You just plant your flag and leave it there. That is scummy.

Please make a case against me, and do so before the night ends, so that if you die and flip town, the town puts me on the block tomorrow. Hopefully, for town's sake, I can get myself off of it. Make it controversial so that I can respond, and if you can't do that, then you don't have a case in the first place.

I did call you out -- on your voting record.

All the site meta for mafia games shows that mafia are inclined to split their votes on lynches.

You are the last person alive (other than guak) who has repeatedly split their vote from the main lynch.

I fully accept that this is not some large, ND-style tirade, or, conversely, a water-tight case founded on a particularly obvious slip -- but it's a starting point.

It is very obvious that you have kept yourself off the main lynch candidates; I think this should be taken into account.

Stastically, you are highly likely to be scum.

Also, spending time during the night posting a message to a replaced and dead player about early D1 actions that led you to, again, plant your flag without any further evidence against a townie on D2 and trying to needlessly justify the fact that you helped lead, for the second time in two days, a mislynch is scummy as hell. Moreover, you are, again the second time in two days, blaming the player you mislynched rather than blaming yourself for mislynching them is scummy as hell.