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A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
31 Dec 12 UTC
Politicians not doing what they are supposed to be experts at
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20872919
Isn't it time that politicians got payment-by-results. These guys are elected to do a job they're not doing, stop those salary payments and you might see a little activity .... too many self-serving politicians
16 replies
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kol_panic (100 D)
31 Dec 12 UTC
Extra! Extra! Diplomacy World Cup and Other Stories in the Pouch
Read about the Diplomacy World Cup and other stories in the Diplomatic Pouch:

http://www.diplom.org/Zine/W2012A/
2 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
31 Dec 12 UTC
Physical Chemists / Chemical Physicists
Anybody else into this stuff? :-)
7 replies
Open
NigelFarage (567 D)
27 Dec 12 UTC
Diplomatia
Is anyone interested in an Ancient Med game with messages solely in Latin? If so, sign up here, and I'll get one started up
39 replies
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SpeakerToAliens (147 D(S))
30 Dec 12 UTC
This guy's attitude is disgusting!
Just listen to the recording:-

http://order-order.com/2012/12/30/on-the-dole-because-he-didnt-want-to-get-up-at-800-a-m/
21 replies
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ILN (100 D)
31 Dec 12 UTC
Cultural Marxism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4v6CVcHUXY

Thoughts?
4 replies
Open
Jamiet99uk (873 D)
31 Dec 12 UTC
Charlie Brooker FTW
Just thought you guys might enjoy this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/30/armchair-paralympian-words-of-2012
0 replies
Open
taylornottyler (100 D)
31 Dec 12 UTC
convoy
If one convoys an army with a fleet that is being attacked (with support), does the army that is being convoyed considered breaking the support of the supporting fleet that is supporting the fleet into the convoying fleet's territory?
3 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
29 Dec 12 UTC
Here Come the Lawyers
First criminal case filed against the state in the Newtown massacre… filed by the family of a survivor and asking for $100,000,000… get rich off a tragedy, eh?
64 replies
Open
redhouse1938 (429 D)
27 Dec 12 UTC
I'm done debating evolution
Nowadays, when people bring up how the earth is not billions of years old, but actually a couple thousand years old, at birthday parties or whatnot, I just sort of nod and smile. Evolution=fact. http://i38.tinypic.com/2 D98kyu.gif
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philcore (317 D(S))
28 Dec 12 UTC
@ghug: the third part

CO2 is a green house gas. check. It's not a very important one, as GHG's go, water vapor is WAY more a contributer to the green house effect.

Humanity is releasing large quanities of GHGs - qualified check. at 350 ppm it's still a trace gas, as far as the atmospheric composition goes, but we are contributing to it's increase proportionaly at a high rate.

Releaseing GHG => adverse effect - There, that's the one I have a problem with! I have a problem with the conclusion that there is a positive (accelerating) rather than a negative (dampening) effect of the warming or cooling of the planet based only on computer models with 30 variables in them, that can be adjusted to come to any conclusion you want them to. I have a problem with claiming that a trace gas can have ANY noticeable effect over the VASTLY more important effect of the sun.I have a problem that people can even look at temperature data varying 30 degrees a day between high and low and 10 degrees per day peak values and 40 degree consistent seasonal differences and saying that they can detect any trend on the order of fractions of degrees.

I have a problem with adjusting the DATA when your theory is refuted rather than adjusting the theory itself. I have a problem with an Oscar winning, Nobel Peace Prize (not a real Nobel prize, btw - Arafat has one too!) winning proponent of AGW consuming as much electricity as 10 normal families, then finding out that he pays himself to grow trees to "offset" his usage! what a fucking joke! He is the most puplic proponent and yet isn't even worried enough to live with a small CO2 footprint. Don't even get me started on James Cameron - biggest fucking AGW hypocrite EVER!

I have a problem with real scientists trying to study their fields of interest having to claim some link to AGW in order to get funding. look at the rise in Oceanographer studies and Marine biology studies that have to somehow tie their study of molluscs to some 5th order effect of a prediction which has so far not been validated.
e.g. "increased CO2 is causing 'acidification' of the ocean which is making mollusk shells thinner". Poor guy just wants to study mollusks, but he has to make this shit up to get funding for it. "Acidification" of the ocean??? How Orwellian! The ocean is basic! acidification means bringing it close to nuetral - a ph of 7! try "nuetralization of the ocean" or "ph balancing" of the ocean instead! and think of the counter-argument to the marine biologist a million years ago trying to get funding ... "Ocean basification is causing mollusks to develop thicker shells to protect themselves from the horrible "basification of the oceans".

Bottom line the stand-alone sciences are fine. The attempt to predict using computer models is risky. The igoring and hiding of the predictions failing is bad science. The setting of public policy based on the risky predictions is dumb politics, and the profiting off of the fear mongering dire consequences of models which were risky to begin with is down right fraud!

So having said that, yeah a new thread would be fine with me ;-)
ghug (5068 D(B))
28 Dec 12 UTC
Draug, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Are you at all an expert on this? Have plants had difficulty surviving on atmospheric CO2 levels for the last three billion years? Are you an expert on this? Do you know what quantities of CO2 are absorbed by plants? Are you an expert on this? Have you actually tested the levels of CO2 in the atmosphere to see if plants are, in fact, keeping them steady? Are you an expert on this?

I didn't think so.
philcore (317 D(S))
28 Dec 12 UTC
http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/effects-of-rising-atmospheric-concentrations-of-carbon-13254108

Turns out plants LOVE CO2!!

They grow faster, produce more edible material, and require less water!
However, the more they grow, the more CO2 they consume. Wait is that a negative feedback loop built into nature?
philcore (317 D(S))
28 Dec 12 UTC
For the video-inclined ...
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=P2qVNK6zFgE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DP2qVNK6zFgE
philcore (317 D(S))
28 Dec 12 UTC
sorry - that was from my phone - here's for you desktopers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2qVNK6zFgE
philcore (317 D(S))
28 Dec 12 UTC
Back to the original thread topic, negative feedback loops are something both sides should see as obvious.

Creationists: God wouldn't create a beautifull planet and people in his image and then allow one to destroy the other, therefore negative feedback is biblical

Eviloutionists: If there weren't negative feedback loops then at any time in the history of the planet which was warmer or colder than today, it would have already spiraled out of control, therefore nature must be built on negative feedback loops - at least in the optimal window that earth accidently happens to be in.
Commander_Cool (131 D)
28 Dec 12 UTC
Oh lol, I remember seeing threads like this when I first started using the internet a decade ago. And we're no closer to an answer now than we were then
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
28 Dec 12 UTC
"Eviloutionists: If there weren't negative feedback loops then at any time in the history of the planet which was warmer or colder than today, it would have already spiraled out of control, therefore nature must be built on negative feedback loops - at least in the optimal window that earth accidently happens to be in."

Nature has spiraled out of control several times. See Ice Ages, for instance.
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Dec 12 UTC
LOL! You know abgemacht, that could be an argument against the "man is destroying the earth with greenhouse gases" stand. After all, man wasn't exactly producing high levels of greenhouse gases then, yet look at what happened? Add to it that we are still here and it seems the earth can correct herself in time.
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Dec 12 UTC
No Jack, you are closed-minded because you insist on evidence for a philosophy that you happen to disagree with. Philosophies are beliefs and views and are not held to the scrutiny of the sciences. Yet you may hold to the philosophies of Plato or Nietzsche o Kierkegaard and not require them to provide this evidence. do you hold to any philosophy? If so, what evidence that proves it correct do you have?
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Dec 12 UTC
@ghug - philcore beat me to it. You forget I was a software developer working for an environmental restoration/civil engineering firm developing scientific models for them, so I have more than a passing knowledge about the environment. I daresay it is probably more than your pop news knowledge or liberal arts educated knowledge because mine is real world. Pwnd,
philcore (317 D(S))
28 Dec 12 UTC
@abgemacht - clearly it wasn't out of control though, just a natural cycle which has repeated itself countless times every 100k years or so. Spiralling out of control due to a positive feedback loop would mean no turning back. The Ice ages were local minimums, not cliffs.

But even taking that into consideration, has there ever been a catastrophic warm period? It seems like even the local extremes are always minimums, rather than maximums.
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Dec 12 UTC
Maybe the extremes are just slightly above where we are at now. After all, it gets really damned hot around the tropics.
philcore (317 D(S))
28 Dec 12 UTC
yeah, it'd be a shame for the entire planet to be like hawaii for 10,000 years at a time!
abgemacht (1076 D(G))
28 Dec 12 UTC
@Draug

Yeah, but the difference is that whether or not we are the cause of global warming, it still affects us.

@phil

Chicxulub caused a very warm period, but that doesn't really count. There are, of course, maximums, they just haven't been has hot as you would have liked.
Jack_Klein (897 D)
28 Dec 12 UTC
Draug: I'd like to see a philosophical movement with the clout of modern religious groups.

If believers kept their belief in their temples or churches or mosques, I'd be the first to defend their right to do so. But when you have jackasses trying to pass laws requiring science teachers to teach ID as science, when Texas schoolbooks are butchered by people with an overt religious agenda, I must act.

And nobody claims that philosophies have to be automatically respected. Hell, most people who study them seem to enjoy working over their rivals verbally. (You haven't lived until you've seen two drunken doctoral candidates almost come to blows over Derrida.)

Its only the religious that claim that because they BELIEVE something, its above criticism, reproach, or commentary.

Again, if your silly beliefs can't take a bit of abuse from me over the internet, it shows how weak your ideas really are.
ghug (5068 D(B))
28 Dec 12 UTC
"@ghug - philcore beat me to it. You forget I was a software developer working for an environmental restoration/civil engineering firm developing scientific models for them, so I have more than a passing knowledge about the environment. I daresay it is probably more than your pop news knowledge or liberal arts educated knowledge because mine is real world. Pwnd,"

Nope, I did an internship with a leading scientist in the field and one of the mathematicians that works to develop the models. In the words of some idiot, "EPIC. FUCKING. FAIL."

"I have a problem with adjusting the DATA when your theory is refuted rather than adjusting the theory itself."
They are constantly adjusting the models to make them better, it has nothing to do with supposed refutation of data. You know that these models have accurately recreated past climate change given initial values, right? It's not like they're just randomly popping things in until the data matches their required results.

"I have a problem with an Oscar winning, Nobel Peace Prize (not a real Nobel prize, btw - Arafat has one too!) winning proponent of AGW consuming as much electricity as 10 normal families, then finding out that he pays himself to grow trees to "offset" his usage! what a fucking joke! He is the most puplic proponent and yet isn't even worried enough to live with a small CO2 footprint. Don't even get me started on James Cameron - biggest fucking AGW hypocrite EVER!"

Nice ad hominems you got there, attack the science.
philcore (317 D(S))
28 Dec 12 UTC
Thanks, I pride myself on the quality of my ad hominems. And I think I did WAY better at attacking the science, than I did at the ad hominems, I'm still practicing though, someday I will perfect the AH.

btw, I don't meant mean to minimize your internship, but ummm ... it was an internship. you didn't work in the field, you worked for a guy who worked in the field. That's like Spicoli saying he could fix Forrest Witacker's car because his dad was a TV repairman and he's got this "ultimate set of tools"

My brother's gonna shit! He's gonna kill us!
dude ... I can fix it.
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Dec 12 UTC
@Jack - then your problem is wih a subgroup (an admittedly *large* subgroup) and not with the belief itself. Seems we actully have mor ein common because I don't believe that ID or Creationism belongs in the science classroom. It belongs in philosophy and comparative religion classrooms, but *not* science.

@ghug - Well good for you. How long was your internship and what did you actually do? I worked for 5 years for this company and I already told you I took the equations and wrote the C++ on the Iris Indigo that processed those models. 5 years versus an internship... I'll let you reconsider who has the greater real world experience and knowledge. Do I really fail?
philcore (317 D(S))
28 Dec 12 UTC
and speaking of ad hominems, why is that scientists in the AGW field contaly call those who disagree with them "deniers"? And scientists on the other side call the AGWers "alarmists"?

Remember when science was about discovering the truth? Those were the good ol' days
ghug (5068 D(B))
28 Dec 12 UTC
I think you both misunderstood me, I'm not belittling your work Draug, I'm just saying that I also know more than someone who merely has "pop news knowledge or liberal arts educated knowledge," and thus can't be dismissed.

"Remember when science was about discovering the truth? Those were the good ol' days"
That's a good point. Though I'd disagree that it's primarily the scientists saying such things. The experts I've talked to have all seemed rather composed and scientific on the subject.
Yellowjacket (835 D(B))
28 Dec 12 UTC
"Your argument of logic fails when.it passes judgement on the effeft the CO2 has. It has *an* effect. It may or may not be an adverse or detrimental one. In fact, it may help the rainforests long term."

Haha Draugnar that's like saying we should just ignore the issue because it'll make Canada warmer, or it'll be easier to heat your home. You're ignoring huge detrimental effects that are not in any way going to be offset by things like this. I challenge you to cite any climatologist who thinks the change "may or may not be adverse."
principians (881 D)
28 Dec 12 UTC
d
principians (881 D)
28 Dec 12 UTC
sorry, I didn't intended it
philcore (317 D(S))
28 Dec 12 UTC
"Given that the evidence strongly implies that anthropogenic warming has been greatly exaggerated, the basis for alarm due to such warming is similarly diminished."

- Richard S. Lindzen Professor of Meteorology, Department of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology (1983-Present), Lead Author, IPCC (2001)
philcore (317 D(S))
28 Dec 12 UTC
"As a climate researcher, I am increasingly convinced that most of our recent global warming has been natural, not manmade."

- Roy W. Spencer - Ph.D. Meteorology, University of Wisconsin (1982), Principal Research Scientist, Earth System Science Center, University of Alabama in Huntsville
philcore (317 D(S))
28 Dec 12 UTC
"We see no evidence in the climate record that the increase in CO2, which is real, has any appreciable effect on the global temperature."

- S. Fred Singer PhD, President, The Science and Environmental Policy Project (1989-Present), Expert Reviewer, IPCC (2001)
hecks (164 D)
28 Dec 12 UTC
This is a classic "rope-a-dope" post.
"I'm done debating evolution! Now... let's debate evolution."
Draugnar (0 DX)
28 Dec 12 UTC
@YJ - I didn't say we shouldn't pay attention to it. It is an issue to continued to be studied. But panicked Chicken Little "the sky is falling down" responses aren't the answer. This country, at least, seem to be run by two sets of nut jobs. The panicky liberals and the "don't worry, be happy" conservatives when it comes o our environment. I'm from neither camp. I'm from the "give it a quantum of research" camp.
krellin (80 DX)
28 Dec 12 UTC
Global warming -> Huge detrimental effects. Will somebody PLEASE point out to me where the "huge detrimental effects" are? The rules of the game:

1. A species going extinct is *not* a huge detrimental effect, as 99.9% of all species have gone extinct over the course of global history (http://nitro.biosci.arizona.edu/courses/EEB105/lectures/extinction/extinction.html) -- meaning, given man's relatively short duration on the planet, and shorter duration of "civilization", man is *hardly* the cause of species extinction.

2. A region of the planet changing it's general temperature profile is not a huge detrimental effect -- since Michigan was carved out of the earth by a glacier...and is no longer covered by a glacier...and this happened before man was supposedly ruining the planet...it is clear that the earth can go in to and out of temperature extremes on it's own AND that these temperature swings do not "destroy" the region.

3. Discomfort to human beings can not be considered a huge detrimental effect since the focus of the discussion is *the planet*, not humans, who are generally derided by global warming extremists and seen as parasites to the planet, and therefore worthy of suffering, even to the point where their elimination is seen as a net positive to the whole of existence.

Soooo...I'm still waiting to see where global warming is a bad thing, rather than simple "A THING". I'm still waiting to see ANY evidence by which global warming can *rationally* be said to be 1. Man made, and 2. "spiraling out of control" to the literal destruction of the planet and all life contained therein.

If mankind dies, how is this a bad thing? The general (I'd argue well over 50%) of global warming advocates are Evolutionists, and as such consider man just another thing that happens on the planet. We have no special claim to the earth, nor do we hold any special claim to the "right" to life. As such, given that 99.9% of all species aren't here any more, it is the natural conclusion that man, as well, must come to an end. This is not a bad thing...it is "A THING", without moral implications.

So, evolutionary global warming advocates...please tell me how, even if man causes global warming, it is a bad thing, rather than just "A THING" I believe that your attachment to the status quo is verging on religion, as is your insistence (implied) that man must live forever. I believe neither the current climatic conditions, nor the existence of man, are special in any way that would lead me to believe they must exist forever...and in fact, science tells us someday the sun will burn out, flare out, blow up, fade away...whatever...and we will die. Period.

Thus, all told, global warming hysteria is a joke at best and (wait for it...) blatant hypocrisy on the part of ungodly evolutionists that ought to see man's existence as meaningless (and any creature for that matter), and the earth just a freak accident which is a mere blip in universal time.

Get over yourselves.

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202 replies
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
26 Dec 12 UTC
Do You Plan to Hear the People Sing? "Les Miserables" in Theatres...
I went with friends to see it (PACKED HOUSE, which I'd never have expected, it's arguably the most popular musical ever, sure, but it's not like the town I live in is exactly a cultural hotbed that loves its musical theatre and opera) and it was...well, if you're going to see the most-beautifully sung "Les Mis" ever, you'll be utterly disappointed, but if you're going to just see a "good version of it with some good acting and some awesome cinematography...well, thoughts?
13 replies
Open
2ndWhiteLine (2611 D(B))
30 Dec 12 UTC
Lusthog Squad
England in game 5, please remember the rules of the series.
0 replies
Open
Partysane (10754 D(B))
29 Dec 12 UTC
Is a Mod around?
Please contact me asap, player refusing draw on a forever stalemate line in a live game.
50 replies
Open
Maettu (7933 D)
29 Dec 12 UTC
3 more players needed ...
... for a med-pot, anon, WTA game of intrigue, stabbing, trust and cooperation (gameID=107136) - join up please!
2 replies
Open
Lando Calrissian (100 D(S))
30 Dec 12 UTC
portmanteau game chief keef
that was so shitty due to russia. at least he CDed before 1903 ended.
5 replies
Open
Partysane (10754 D(B))
30 Dec 12 UTC
EOG Partys Fun Palace 17
I don't really want to make a EOG thread, i just want to complain to whoever has hijacked my game name! And why make it number 17?
Also, i played like a noob.
gameID=107336
10 replies
Open
Yonni (136 D(S))
28 Dec 12 UTC
Spanish phrase for wedding card
I'm going to a wedding and the groom is a Spaniard. I thought it would be nice to write something in Spanish on the card but didn't want to grab some jumbled rubbish off of a translator. So, I'm wondering if any of you guys can give me a hand writing something nice.
27 replies
Open
bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
29 Dec 12 UTC
Help
My computer is screwed up big time. Can anyone sit some games for me if I nees it tomorrow?
32 replies
Open
mapleleaf (0 DX)
28 Dec 12 UTC
I sent mrs mapleleaf to gay Pareeee without me, sooooo
I'm going to Jamaica!
31 replies
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NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
29 Dec 12 UTC
EOG - Let's be friends
3 replies
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NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
28 Dec 12 UTC
Bo_Sox ***Thought for the Day*** thread
A place where the man himself can post his perpetual string of musings, questions, philosophies, words of wisdom. And we can all follow him without having to search each thread. It's like a Forum Blog, enjoy !!
25 replies
Open
The Czech (40297 D(S))
28 Dec 12 UTC
Partys Fun Palace 56 EOG
gameID=107242

Sorry to disappoint. You had a shot but couldn't close the deal.
9 replies
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josunice (3702 D(S))
26 Dec 12 UTC
7 simultaneous 101 gunboat -- one spot left!
Need one more for 7 games at once. Post for the password.
37 replies
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Halt (270 D)
25 Dec 12 UTC
Clarification on Metagaming
According to the Rulebook, it is defined as:

"You can't make alliances for reasons outside a game, such as because you are friends, relatives or in return for a favour in another game."
26 replies
Open
obiwanobiwan (248 D)
24 Dec 12 UTC
A Modest Proposal (Don't Shoot!)
The 2nd Amendment is antiquated--face it, it is..."a well-regulated militia"...those are NOT the grounds upon which guns are being argued for currently, are they? This was written at a time of muskets, not machine guns. We've repealed and updated Amendments before...why don't we create a NEW Amendment creating guns, give new language--both pro and con--to the matter, so guns can be legal but we can have some sensible language on the matter?
12 replies
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Slyguy270 (527 D)
26 Dec 12 UTC
Proof of Christianity?
http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html (also read the link towards the bottom "beyond blind faith"). I found this a very convincing argument, and wanted to see what you fairly well educated people thought.
52 replies
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jweemhoff (100 D)
28 Dec 12 UTC
Live Game?
Is anybody interested in a live game at the moment? Because I want to start one but no players submitted. Any interest?
4 replies
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Draugnar (0 DX)
27 Dec 12 UTC
If I seem in a foul mood today...
My wife had a seizure this morning and is in the hospital. Trolling and calling fucktard hypocrites out helps take my mind off it.
14 replies
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NigeeBaby (100 D(G))
28 Dec 12 UTC
Any Mods about?
To check out my e-mail
4 replies
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bo_sox48 (5202 DMod(G))
27 Dec 12 UTC
A Fun Thread
It was once CSteinhardt and terry32smith… you tell me… who is the real site police? (Simplified: Make fun of people here.)
6 replies
Open
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