As for the game we played together - IIRC it was a good and quite tough game, with a number of twists and turns, I ended up in a good alliance with both you and IT and we were headed for a 3-way draw. However, it was a TMG Masters game, where only solos count, so I decided to give it a shot and attacked you two. To my surprise it turned out my tactical skills, as mediocre as they may be, were better than the opposition.

And before you put all blame on IT for that game, check back the map and consider what would have happened if you had used your fleet for something different than locking yourself in Helgoland. Maybe try to go south and help IT, or give him a center or two to build up against me...

@hellalt
I simply wanted to make sure I understood what the word 'troll' meant! We should play sometime though . . .

BESM, the fact that you have played diplomacy for decades means you are 50+ years old, a supposedly serious man with a family and obligations.
What does the fact that you are picking up on a 30year old with no serious social obligations tell about you?
What does the fact that someone ranked 3rd or so like you is picking up on someone ranked 130th+ means about you?
You really need to grow up and rearrange your priorities in life. If diplomacy is one of the top 3 like I suspect, you are seriously fucked up. Maybe internet gaming provides you a feeling of completion you lack in your real life. You are self-centered and arrogant like a 3year old child that wasn't bought an ice-cream.
btw my mental state is indeed listed in DSM under the "other"n tab. It's called passive-aggressive behavior. At least I know what my condition is. Can you tell the same about yourself? Let me take a guess.
"I see dead diplomacy players". Does that suit your case?
Don't feed the BESM troll...

Interesting thread... I wonder how many people would be able to stay friends if they played this ftf a lot. I'd have to think it would be hard to remember it's just a game the second you got turned on by your 'friend'. This is the perfect game for a family reunion or holiday gathering.

djbent, I ll answer to you.
You seriously need to improve your tactical skills.
gameID=19925
You played England. I played France. You had me build armies only to attack Germany and you built fleets only and stabbed me.
Nevertheless for many years you and Germany kept attacking me without any success at all. Commonly when Germany and England attack France and France only has 1 fleet then France stand no chance at all.
Yet you were so incompetent that the game ended with you defeated instead of me.

I admit, I don't read too much into styles, history, etc... I only know that the ones I've personally considered the better players are those that have caused me a reasonable amount of stress, consternation, frustration and enjoyment in the games I've played w/ them. The reality is most countries are going to lose when it becomes a simple numbers game (2-on-1 or 3-on-1) - it's being clever enough to make the best of those situations, be a thorn in their side, or even somehow come out on top (and all w/ a sense of humor) that make this a really challenging and fun game IMHO.

hellalt - I can honestly say you are one of the few people on this site I like LESS than ivo. I've had the distinct displeasure of playing you a few times, and in every occasion, your lack of diplomatic skills shone clearly.

Anyways - how empty is your life that you have to come on a random internet forum to make yourself feel relevant? I do feel pity for you man... true pity.

hellalt i agree i'm terrible at tactics. what should i have done differently?

also i agree with LG.

games between Babak and hellalt:
Babak: 2 draws 1 defeat
hellalt: 1 draw, 1 survival, 1 defeat
Yeah it seems you are right Babak.
My lack of diplomatic skills is obvious.
I feel pity for myself, true pity...

The thing about hellalt that I've discovered after playing against him (both allied and not) in several games is that 90 percent of the crap that he spews on the forums is misdirection.

One of my first (anon)games with him, I was completely snookered by him because he came across as polite, reasonable, and not the forum flamethrower that he has a reputation for being.

tl;dr: Don't assume you understand how hellalt works. He's far more subtle (or perhaps crazy like a fox?) than you would assume from reading his rather... caustic forum posts.

Are you still argueing who is a better player and what are the characteristics of being one? XD

<.< you could have spent your time for something at least useful *-*

A good player is the one who plays, enjoys and realises that it is just a game.

A bad player considers himself a true diplomat -too bad he didnt take his place in his country's corps diplomatique- and claims to be the authority to know the best moves and words to say...

Of course I dont say that you shouldnt discuss tactics with each other, but that's not what you are doing. You are just offending each other and arguing like 5-year-old kids...

I wonder when you will realise that non of us are "superior" to others...

Might I suggest that most everyone in the top-100 (and to extend I'm sure down to top-200/300 would be fine too) can give most everyone else in the top-100 a good fight?

Also, mucho agreed with Jack Klein re: hellalt. I've played I think two games with him, both anon. One was full press, and I had no fucking clue who he was until after the fact. It's actually kind of brilliant -- you go on the forum and see him verbally (perhaps textually, whatever term you like) nuking people, and then you go in a game and find him to be one of the most polite, rational, diplomatic people you'll ever play. And the other game was a gunboat, and while I think there were some pretty bad errs by other players (myself included) that affected the outcome, there's no doubt in my mind that he's one of the better tacticians and strategists on the site.

@hellalt i enjoyed watching that game you played as france against djbent, i usually have trouble as france so it was nice to see how you defended yourself.

@LanGaidin i know exactly what you mean with making the best of bad situations with the numbers game thing, that is the exact reason i hate gunboats because im very good at talking my way out of those situations but would would have been killed off for sure if not for my convincing speech. perfect example is the game i played last night where i was austria (the feast or famine country) gameID=51013 (and yes i know i made a few stupid moves and it nearly got me killed but russia letting turkey kill them off just to spite me and germany leaving half way through the game really fucked things up for me).

I guess having fun is more important to me than winning. I was in a similar position to Babak a few games back as Russia. I had 17 centers and I knew a lot of my opposition weren't happy with each other. If I decided to rearrange my troops for a few more years, I know they would have cracked. But, we were all tired of the game and I didn't want to bother. The excitement of the game had passed so I decided to draw and move on with my life.

I've played many league games with Ivo and Babak, so I'm all too familiar with this feud. I feel like I often get stuck in the middle of it as I happen to like both of them. I don't think what Babak did was wrong (and I'm shocked that France turned. Very poor play), but I'm just saying I probably wouldn't have done it.

Oh, and we all know hellalt is the best player on the site. GR doesn't show it because Ghost secretly hates him. I'm not sure why we even need to have that discussion.

+1 abge
i have never played a game with hellalt that i know of but just looking at his games he does play very well and i would be scared to get on his bad side in a game

lawl

Dude, you +1'd me for the completely wrong post...

I think this is the first (or maybe second) time in my almost 2 year presence on this forum that someone stood up for me for my gaming skills. I don't know how am I supposed to respond to that cause I'm just not used to it at all. Cry, smile or maybe something a bit more extravagant?
thanks you jack_klein, president eden, maltikoz!
I don't really believe I'm the best player or anything (although I certainly feel I'm in top 100...). I just like to provoke people, especially those who don't give me the credit I deserve.

well i thought it was funny so thats why, whether you ment it or not doesnt matter to me.

there are a few games where idk what you were doing it was either poor playing or something and you didnt do very well but then there are others where your playing with high ranked players and nearly win and have to draw because of stalemate lines and such.

yeah, in games that I feel I cannot communicate with anyone, I give up on communication and usually end up alone fighting 2 or 3 so there isn't really much hope in those ending well for me. also in my first 30-40 games I played a lot worse, strategically and especially tactically speaking

+abgemacht for the right post.

Seconded

I'm going to have to agree with Abgemacht that anybody in the top 250 GR or so can put up a pretty good fight, assuming that they didn't get there by just playing gunboats. There's a reason he's my favorite mod :)

@hellalt
So you played poorly in your first 30-40 games? I had 100+ games on BOUNCED to figure things out, and I still do stupid things here sometimes!

And I thought it took me too much to figure things out... :P

if you're afraid of hellalt, you better be even more afraid of me. in hellalt's own words (to me):

"games with you are rather complicated. I have to think more than against other opponents just to end up losing anyway :P"

You should be afraid of me if you're afraid of anyone on this site. I remember when people were playing the 1v1 map against me, it was good times to kill everyone. Actually, Figgle beat me in that, god damn Figgle.

FEAR THIS!