@ Ninja - France can bounce his two armies and keep Italy out

@ FriendlySword - I'm going to keep my two cents to myself except for the occasional meaningless snark unless a plurality of the participants don't mind the peanut gallery chiming in. It's like SOW, but not, because you guys are all top-line players.

Well, some of us are top-line players at least. ;)

@ stratagos yes but italy can support spain

That's true, but France can also move BUR > MAR to guarantee his build.

could but then germany gets 3 builds. diplomacy is about mind games. if you can get your opponent to really think hard about several serious decisions, theyre more likely to over-analyze a situation and fail than if they would have simply made an easy choice.

This is true, but Germany also might want to cover Munich, and the move to Piedmont may have been *arraigned* by France to throw Germany off.

thats right that germany will want to cover munich. thats why the best approach for a french opening will include a move to burgundy instead of picardy for the parisian army. it forces the opponent to double-think a move.

plus, i highly doubt that piedmonte would have been a prearranged move by both france and italy. that type of move is one that serves one of two purposes:

the majority is that its a scare tactic used by italy to throw off france (and works most of the time) the second is that its a ploy to get austria to feel comfortable with italy before italy stabs.

a move to piedmonte is better used as a german/italian alliance. if i were germany, i wouldnt be at all thrown off by a move to piedmonte if there was no italian unit already in place at tyrolia. theres little that italy can do against germany starting off, and even less so if the first move is for venice to move to piedmonte.

I'm not saying it's likely, and Germany may just go for Belgium anyway, with the logic that 3 new SCs - 1 existing SC is the same as 2 new SCs and all starting SCs.

Without knowing what's going on behind the scenes, it's hard to say what is likely.

I don't mind the commentary...I think it's always fun to see what others say about your moves.

I don't like the commentary... STOP IT!!!! ;-)

Don't pay any attention to MM...sometimes he doesn't know what he's saying... :P

Someone please tell me what to do.

ag7433: Pawn to Queen 4

Since everyone is talking but no one is, y'know, commenting:

Russia:
Nice opening. The german move to Holland leaves Sweden wide open, and England's preoccupation with France means you don't have to worry about losing STP in 1902, unless you do something silly. It's an interesting choice you've got with Turkey - take a shot at an open SC, or go full force for RUM. It also depends on what's going on with Austria, but since it appears they have an agreement with Italy, his next choices will be... interesting.

Austria:
.... didn't like commentary. Phooey on you :)

Turkey:
Ouch, a less than stellar opening, or something devious. It's always hard to tell with Jacob. Could be a five SC opening if Austria backs him into RUM and Russia doesn't go for an open SC, but I just don't see the benefit to Austria there. I assume we're going to see a bounce in ANK and a fleet build, but Itay's preoccupation with France won't last forever - will he be able to grow fast enough to take down Austria before Italy turns around?

Italy: Going for France without support is always risky, but I'm not sure if you're allied to England or you both just decided you don't like Dipper. His move to the channel is a hint that he sees England as a bigger threat, but that can change rapidly. Will France be distracted by someone else enough that you can get in there? This remains to be seen

France: I hope that bounce was arraigned with England and you have something devious planned, or you look to be in a world of hurt. If Germany is also against you and moves to BUR (assuming BUR is headed for MAR) instead of yanking another SC, you're doomed. Figuring out what Italy has planned can be key here.

England: Norway is yours, but can you keep it? Only if you either convoy that army and don't get plinked in the North Sea - otherwise Russia can take it easily. Again, hope you have something devious planned with France.

Germany: Giving Russia a free pass at Sweden is an interesting choice, especially since he could (theoretically) get 3 SCs this round. Denmark is (probably) yours, and Belgium as well, if you don't choose to cover Munich.

I think the next set of moves will be very... interesting

(and yes MM, I was pretty sure you were joking ;) )

im not a huge fan of direct commentary since it can change things in a game and add an element of an outside influence so ill keep things a little more vague.

the history:
im never a fan of the southern openings for russia. it leaves some unfortunate buisness in the north and gives england plenty of freedom to take norway unopposed. i have found that when russia bounces england at norway in situations like this when theres a fight over the channel, england is weakened and theres a war over the territory giving russia the needed time to get a firm hold of things. england in scandanavia opens up a lot of ability to take stp and compromises territory. when russia opens in the north with mos-stp he has a large bargaining chip with england.

i like the italian opening to piedmonte and french opening to burgundy since it puts a bit of stress on their neighbors to make decisions that could have huge ramifications if they choose wrong. the bounce at the channel was lovely especially seeing that russia is in no position to tell england "no" to norway.

i know the grab for 3 centers is a rose bloom for germany but i think the best move is kie-den since again, it gives them a bargaining chip with russia. this would have been the best time to bounce him since the southern opening would put him in no position to fight a war in the north and a lot of times itt signals the A/T vultures to pounce. additionally, if theres a juggernaut, it slows or even curbs the problem early on and gives austria the time to get footing.

implications of the now:
the toughest player that has to make a decision will be france. stress placed on him by germany and italy will result in 1 build. austria and germany are in the best positions on the map and everyone else seems to be playing things by ear.

things i see coming in the future:
a sleeper R/T alliance
an A/I counter
G/E cooperating
F is in for a rough ride.

i expect to see another bounce in the channel, germany headding to belgium and nabbing 3 in 01 since the potential loss of munich can easily be recovered by 2 army builds in kiel and berlin. hes clearly on good graces with russia, austria is doing well.

Strat, I was dead serious about my comment, I personally very much dislike the commentary, but mainly because it will hurt my chances for success... That said, and at the risk of making no sense at all, I couldn't care less if you guys do make comments, to each his own, I can go with the flow...

MM, I have no desire to comment if you feel it will influence the game in any way - the only reason I thought it was acceptable here was that I doubted anyone would see anything in my commentary that hadn't occurred to them without intervention

I will refrain from it moving forward.

Strat, like I tried to say, even though I prefer people didn't comment, it's no big deal if you do, as far as I'm concerned... Perhaps I should not have voiced my opinion on the matter, I just couldn't resist... especially when my opinion appeared to be in the minority, it's always fun to stir the pot a little bit! :-)

I enjoy the commentary =)

I enjoy MM and commentary and in that order :)

Hope the game is interesting enough for everyone watching it so far. ^.^

i will definitely follow the game. anyone wishing to have dialog/debate about the game can feel free to pm me and we can debate the game without affecting the players.

no offense, but i will not be communicating this way with anyone actually *in* the game or posting any of my thoughts publicly until the game is over.

Oh wow, I just noticed this game. Looks pretty sweet guys. I notice the commentary hasn't picked up on what Jacob and ag were trying to do, which is obviously a black sea swap. Its where Turkey takes Sevastapol and Russia takes Con, thus removing Russia's build threat against Turkey, and getting the russian fleet out to the med. Really powerful opening if done properly, requires a lot of trust. Obviously ag decided not to follow through, screweing Jacob over to much hilarity. I'm actually giggling right now as I type. Oh Jacob, faster than the titantic me thinks. Whether it was a good choice on ag's part remains to be seen, as MadMarx is now a six centre monster.

Also, dear Western half of board. Stop doing what djbent asks. Seriously. Way to not protect the channel England. Come on now.

As someone who has also trusted Jacob just a liiiiittle too long for my own good, I have to admit to a certain degree of amusement as well ;)

lol - you people are killing me! I have nothing but the best intentions for everyone and this is how I'm repaid =)

MM is the real winner here though which is rather amazing...sheesh...

He is just so frickin' convincing. Can. Not. Resist. The Madman!

No one *blames* you for being a good player, Jacob, but - for better or for worse - you have earned a... reputation. That's it, a reputation - a nice, sanitized way of saying things if I do say so myself ;)