Forum
A place to discuss topics/games with other webDiplomacy players.
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paggas (184 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
On the metagame
What happens if time runs out for a phase and some players have not finalized their orders?
6 replies
Open
Kompole (546 D)
16 Jan 09 UTC
Ultra fast game - JOIN!!!
1hour per phase.
0 replies
Open
Pandarsenic (1485 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Pause game, please?
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=7770
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=7770
Tarablus (France) is the only member of this game who hasn't voted for a pause when two members have to leave for a while. He has stated, and I quote, "No pauses ever."
16 replies
Open
Zilph (100 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Variant Games!
One of my games finally ended (thanks, Babak) so I have points again! There were a couple of variant games I was planning to make/participate in:
16 replies
Open
in watercolor (107 D)
16 Jan 09 UTC
Retreating.
Here is the situation: Austria has two supply stations left (Tunisia and Vienna). Turkey and Germany control every territory touching Vienna as it is attacked from Bohemia with a support move in Budapest. The game does not allow Vienna to retreat to Bohemia and all other spaces are occupied. Will we have to wait the 24 hours until this phase is over to progress? Will the game progress even then? Is there anything we can do to speed this up?
2 replies
Open
Yrt - Zach (108 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
In relation to the bugs
my game just glitched, http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=7900 i'm italy, and ordered piedmont to support hold at Marseilles, its in the order history, but it didn't appear on the map, and wasn't counted, and its probably gonna cost me the game...
8 replies
Open
bonbon (100 D)
16 Jan 09 UTC
Join Red October
Join Red October. 24 hour phases. bet 15
1 reply
Open
El_Perro_Artero (707 D)
08 Jan 09 UTC
Oakland Riots
Well, I think we've all seen the videos. I'm sure Sicarius will want to get in on this one.
65 replies
Open
Puddle (413 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
A Matter of Faith
Let me start with, only post here if you are going to be intelligent courtious (I fail at spelling) and will actually add to the overall discussion.

How many of you would consider yourself true believers in God? The God of Abraham (so Muslims, Christians, and Jews feel free to respond). My Cause for asking is that I've begun to question my total denial of all things possibly divine.
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trim101 (363 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
theres no proof which means they are fairy tales, i didnt equate all religious people to terrorists i said that yes peoples beliefs do effect me which i proved
sceptic_ka (100 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
@Invictus: nope, the dicks are the ones who tell little children that fairy tales are real and that faith and shit like that are important. Brainwashed children can be so very annoying.
sceptic_ka (100 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Oh and here are some deeply held believes from a German/Lebanese girl studying medicine in Frankfurt:
- Islam is right
- Shea Islam is wrong, very wrong
- Jews are evil, Israel should be punished
- People who leave Islam should be punished
- If you have sex before Marriage then you'll go to "hell", but males are exempt from this.
- suicide bombing is ok

If any of these topics come up, I've got no problems telling her to her face that all that is a load of bullshit, I wont seek it out but neither will I ignore a comment like "Jews are evil".
Dexter.Morgan (135 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
If miracles documented in the Bible is proof of a Christian God than far greater and more numerous miracles documented in Hindu scriptures is proof of Hindu Gods. ...then there are others... Gautama Buddha walked on water among other even more extraordinary feats with numerous witnesses, Muhammad split the moon, Roman Emperor Vespasian healed a blind man (as have numerous faith healers since)... All incontrovertible proof of all of these religions being true to the exclusion of the others...
diplomat1824 (0 DX)
14 Jan 09 UTC
My personal belief is that (Christian) God sent Mohammed to convert the Arabs to Christianity, but Mohammed misinterpreted God's messages and inadvertantly started Islam.
Invictus (240 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Well, that's heresy in both religions.
trim101 (363 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
did you expect anything else from him?
Puddle (413 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Well Alot has been said since I last checked, and I have come to the conclusion that this conversation is beggining to degenerate, Thucydides, Jacob, Sioraf and Dexter if you would like to continue to discuss the topic of religion and more importantly God, please feel free to contact me through my email, in fact I would very much appreciate it if you would do just that. Especially Jacob, I have much that I would wish to discuss with you.
diplomat1824 (0 DX)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Invictus, how is it heresy for Christianity? It's impossible that Mohammed pulled all of that out of his arse.
Puddle (413 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
He wouldn't have to, much of it was fairly well known from the jews the christians and local religions
Puddle (413 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Also regardless of all else, I think it would be best to speak of any and all religious prophets such as Jesus, Muhammed, Moses, Sidartha and all others with respect, no matter our opinions of them and their teachings
TheClark (831 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
To diplomat1824's comment, " nothing to lose". This is know as Pascal's wager. The famous gambler/mathematician Blaise Pascal basically said that as a wager, nothing was lost if one believes in an afterlife if it is untrue. All is lost if there is an afterlife and you don't believe. A minuscule wager to make for such an important outcome. A betting man should, in this case, hedge his bets and go with the belief. This "wager" keeps a lot of people on board.
ioan (356 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
The wager is also poorly thought out, as for reasons stated further above.
diplomat1824 (0 DX)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Christianity is a religion where you can't lose. Who wants to lose?
Chrispminis (916 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
diplomat1824, Uh... yes you can lose. What if Islam is right and you've wasted your life on Christianity?

bartdogg, I'll try to sift through the mountains of pseudoscience you're spouting, but you'll forgive me if I stumble because this is much like playing chess with someone who wants to play checkers.

"
Astronomical observations indicate that the universe has not always existed but came into being apparently out of nothing. These observations match the teachings of the Bible that also indicate that God created the universe out of nothing (see Ps. 33:6; Heb. 11:3; Rev. 4:11)."

It's not that the universe came out of nothing. It's that whatever is outside or before the universe is unknowable and cannot affect us. I've already conceded that if you claimed to be a deist I could not refute you because it's a purely metaphysical claim, but I will say that I would prefer to not assume I know what created the universe and that it does not necessitate a God. Even conceding this point only allows for deism and has no room for the tapdancing you have to do to get to theism and then to Christianity.

"In addition, the fossil record which many evolutionists site as the strongest evidence for their theory is, in fact, one of its greatest weaknesses. While many extinct species can be seen in the fossil record, even evolutionists admit that there is little evidence of intermediately life forms. The fossil record has not supported the theory of evolution by providing evidence of gradual changes from one species to another. On the contrary, new species appear suddenly and fully formed in the fossil record. Far from disproving the existence of God, scientific discoveries have made belief in the existence of God more plausible."

I'm sorry to tell you this, but this is just a plain lie. I don't know how much biology you've learned but any biologist will tell you this is just completely wrong. The fossil record is full of "transitional" species, such as Archaeopteryx and Cetaceans. Of course there are holes, but it's our incredible luck that we even have an extensive fossil record because very few organisms undergo the conditions required for fossilization. Evolution predicts that when we find fossils they will fit into phylogenetic trees, it does not predict we will necessarily find these fossils, so if we are missing a sample it is only a testament to the improbability of fossils and not to the invalidation of evolution. No evolutionist would concede that we have few intermediates in the fossil record, if they ever said anything of the sort it would be along the lines that there is no such thing as an intermediate species because every organism is itself an evolved organism adapted to it's environment. Otherwise, we would all organisms today are all intermediate species as well.

"The more science learns about the complexity and sophistication of creation the harder it is to believe that it all happened by chance. For example, science has discovered that one strand of DNA can carry the same amount of information as a volume of an encyclopedia. No one coming upon an encyclopedia volume in a forest would assume that random forces and elements had produced it by chance. Such a conclusion would be rejected as totally implausible. Yet, the atheists offer the same kind of implausible conclusion when they are confronted with the amount of information contained in one DNA molecule. Belief in the existence of God requires faith, but recent scientific discoveries have revealed that theism does not require as much faith as atheism."

First, I'm not sure where that number comes from, but I'll give it to you, because I don't need to know if it's right to show you that you're using a logical fallacy. This is just a variation upon the Watch and Watchmaker argument. I would not claim that an encyclopedia was not written and occurred by random forces because I know that encyclopedia's are unnatural. I could take a rock and extract more information from it than an encyclopedia but I would not say the rock must have had a designer because the rock is naturally occurring and there are rocks everywhere. Similarly, the existence of DNA is not nearly as unlikely as finding a naturally formed encyclopedia, because you're ignoring the fact that DNA is not formed completely randomly but through chemical forces and enzymatic action, and that DNA has the amazing property of being self replicating so once it does form it becomes extremely prolific compared to non-replicating chemical matter. Scientists have already been able to naturally form complex amino acids and this in a far shorter time frame. Is it that hard to see that in half a billion years that DNA could emerge and proliferate?

Your last point is also just a lie. It is highly debatable amongst historians that Jesus ever existed. What is clear is that of the major Roman historians contemporary with Jesus and the miracles he supposedly performed, not one of the Roman historians ever made mention to him and the fantastic things he was to have done. In fact, the first written mention of Jesus was decades later and even then he was only referred to in passing and not as a divine being. The evidence for the existence of Jesus is relatively sparse and the evidence of the miracles he was to have performed are even more so.

Re: Re: Morality.
I did say that humans act in self interest. It's just that we all mutually benefit from co-operation far more than we do from competition. Therefore it is in our self interest to co-operate. Morality is the mechanism which eases this co-operation and allows for the continued co-existence and co-operation.

If everyone punched each other in the face whenever they felt like it we would not have a functioning society. The reason you can't punch me in the face because you think it's right is because most other people don't think it's right and will punish you for jeopardizing the coherence of our society. It's true that a biological compulsion to rape may exist, but in our society the cost of rape far outweighs the benefit to your genes. You get massive jail time. We don't view rape as moral because unwanted pregnancies are very costly to the individual and to the community. It's cost and benefit that guide our actions. Morality imposes benefit on good actions and cost on bad actions. All that religion does is impose supernatural benefits and costs that guide your actions. You don't punch me or rape someone because God will punish you if you do and you have a biological compulsion toward morality. I don't punch you or rape someone because the law will punish me and I have a biological compulsion toward morality.

Invictus (240 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
I'll be honest, I didn't read that tome above. I know you must have put a whole lot of thought to it.

To diplomat1824 saying Muhammad being sent by God to spread Christianity, it's heresy because he was too late to be a prophet. The time for prophesy ended after Jesus. To be frank, according to Christianity, Jesus was the last chance.

That's also an incredibly insulting to say about Islam. It's like saying Jesus was just some Jew who pissed off the Romans. I'm no ecumenicalist or theosophist but you've got to be civil when discussing people's most cherished beliefs.
ioan (356 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Chrispminis + ∞
sceptic_ka (100 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
"you've got to be civil when discussing people's most cherished beliefs."
why? why should talking about whether not some god exists be any different than talking about politics, cuisine, software or weather forecasting methods?
Invictus (240 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Well, you should be civil then too.
sceptic_ka (100 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
There's no data to back up the weather forecasting method your using.
There's no evidence for your god.

Yuck mushrooms are disgusting, can't we order pizza without them?
Yuck your idea of a cosmic dictator is disgusting can't be thankful to someone else before we eat.

The GOP suck.
Jesus sucks.

Windows 98 is outdated.
Judaism is outdated.

Windows Vista is junk, get rid of it!
Christianity is junk, get rid of it!

Personally it's not what you believe that I criticize but why.
1. I believe X because of Y, Z...
2. I believe X because I faith.

If you allow case 2, then how can you criticize someone who believes something dangerous like suicide bombing gets you into heaven?
Invictus (240 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Quite faith and violent action are not the same thing. There's no point try to convince you, you're mind is made up.

Good grief, what happened to tolerance?

Do you even know what GOP stands for?
sceptic_ka (100 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
2 should be "I believe X because I have faith."
should have been in bed 2 hours ago...
sceptic_ka (100 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
GOP: Grand Old Party
I just don't get it.
How can "I believe X because I have faith." be OK for some X but not for others.
Can you give me some examples of X for which that statement is acceptable to you.
I don't want to be cruel or mean I just don't get it.
Invictus (240 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
I believe in God because I have faith. I've never seen God, I've never had anything like a religious experience, I've never even felt a closeness to God outside of when I really needed it, like when a family member was sick. But faith and logic are separate, so I can have both and no apply one to the other.

You might not mean it, but saying "Jesus sucks" and "Yuck your idea of a cosmic dictator is disgusting can't be thankful to someone else before we eat" is cruel and mean. Come on, man.
bartdogg42 (1285 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
I'll try my best to answer the above, cripsminis. First, as I noted I simply copied and pasted the scientific information. Someone was asking for ANY proof or rationalization behind a creator-being and I thought I would post some.

This is more my field: you said:
Your last point is also just a lie. It is highly debatable amongst historians that Jesus ever existed. What is clear is that of the major Roman historians contemporary with Jesus and the miracles he supposedly performed, not one of the Roman historians ever made mention to him and the fantastic things he was to have done. In fact, the first written mention of Jesus was decades later and even then he was only referred to in passing and not as a divine being. The evidence for the existence of Jesus is relatively sparse and the evidence of the miracles he was to have performed are even more so.

This is just way off base. Perhaps I should have said, "any respected historian of the time period" believes that a person named Jesus existed. That's just simply the case. I had an Roman history professor put it to me like this: "First, Jesus existed and lived on earth as a Jew in the 1st century. Their are a few historians out there that believe this to be untrue, and we in the academic circles name these people morons."

And I'd caution you to be careful in saying the "first written mention of Jesus was decades later" because this is going to lead into a credibility of the New Testament discussion. If we completely throw out the New Testament and consider it mythology then yes, to my recollection Josephus' history is one of the only things we have to work with. It must be mentioned though, that the mention of Jesus by Josephus is very significant in only that the Jews obviously disliked this new sect. Why would Josephus make this man up if he did not exist?

And just to throw in, the records of history and amount of resources we have on this person Jesus are literally thousands of times more than most people of antiquities that we freely accept as having existed. Nobody would question whether Thucydides' or Herodotus' histories are authentic, yet in Thucydides case, we have 8 manuscripts dated 1300 years after he wrote. Aristotle wrote his poetics around 343 BC and the earliest copy we have is dated AD 1100. The New Testament has over 20,000 manuscripts in existence today, some fragments dating as early as the late 1st century.

So, to question whether or not Jesus existed is to essentially question any historical figure ever. To say the evidence is sparse is just plain wrong. We must make a decision about this man, not pull a curtain over our heads.

Did George Washington exist? because I sure can't see him!
bartdogg42 (1285 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
And to sceptic I would say truly believing something with wisdom is a combination of 1 and 2, at least in regards to the supernatural.

I can't see God so therefore I'm in category 2. Yet, as should be evident from my posts, I'm not believing in God or historic Christianity because my grandmother told me to either. It's just not nearly as far a "leap" of faith as some members of our culture would lead you to believe.
Puddle (413 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Well, Let me attempt to defend chrispminis here, One person wirtes a book, that has a great story about the son of god and so on and so forth, and other people realize that this is not only a good story but a great belief as well, so they all write their own histories of the event, many of which are based solidly in available resources, but the hundred or so different gospels, can't all be correct as many of them tell conflicting stories, so some are clearly false, that eleminates many of the sources. And yes there are nearly a hundred gospels, only four were considered satisfactory for a religious text. this descision was made at the council of Nicaea in 325 AD a rather long time after the death of christ.
sceptic_ka (100 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
But how is it any worse than "the GOP suck"?
A statement you hear often.

If "I believe in God because I have faith." is OK to you what about:
I believe in driving as fast as possible because I have faith.
I believe red cars are evil because I have faith.
I believe women should serve men because I have faith.
I believe rats should only be shot on Wednesdays because I have faith.
I believe in an afterlife because I have faith.
I believe following the gods wishes allows me to have said afterlife because I have faith.
I believe the gods wishes are in this book because I have faith.
I believe this holy can tell me what the gods wishes are because he can read said book and I have faith.
I believe jihad is good because I have faith.
Just believing this stuff doesn't hurt anyone but acting on it might.

I still don't get why if you've got no evidence for X and no good reason to assume X that you should believe it just on faith.
And even if you do believe it, I don't get why you should hold it very dear or be surprised that other people mock you for it.
Invictus (240 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
You don't understand faith then, and I suspect it's something like a willful ignorance on your part. That post of yours is beyond absurd.
Puddle (413 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
sceptic, use some common sense man, its just nice to be respectful of others beliefs, it is part of being diplomatic, not too mention courteous

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243 replies
koyo (112 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Strategic analysis, please...
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=7718

Hey guys, what do you think about the last movements in the game? Do you find some logic in the Italian movements? Isn't it weird that Austria has become twice in civil disorder? What do you think about that?
10 replies
Open
PirateJack (400 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Gunboat MkI Game
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=8072
Anyone up for a game of gunboat? 50D PPSC.
Password is 'password'. Didn't want anyone stumbling into it without knowing what it was.
12 replies
Open
StevenC. (1047 D(B))
15 Jan 09 UTC
European Death War is up and running!
European Death War is up and looking for experienced players. Oh, and Operation Sea Lion would've worked if the Luftwaffe had continued to pummel British cities instead of postponing the operation.
0 replies
Open
saulberardo (2111 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Error ocurred
hey people, take a look at this game:
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=7328
I moved from Belgium to Burgundy with support from Munich but my armies didn't move. Why it happened?
6 replies
Open
Denzel73 (100 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Zeitgeist
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
3 replies
Open
paggas (184 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
About the layout of the webpage
Hi, I have this problem. The text box for chatting in the Board view is too long horizontally, and its right edge is thus hidden behind the white border. Could you please make it show up in front of the white border instead? Or maybe shrink it horizontally. I am using Firefox 3.0.4 on Linux.
4 replies
Open
oldbenjamin (1412 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
3v3 game
Hello. 3 hour phase? Please let's make it 12 or 16 or just a standard 24.
2 replies
Open
tullman (579 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Removed units question - time sensitive
A player had to remove a unit but it seems ambiguous as to which one. The explosion is on top of an army in STP but the army has an arrow going to MOS (an order that succeeded), There is also a fleet in STP that was moved from the Gulf of Bothnia. Which unit is removed, STP or MOS?
4 replies
Open
paulg (358 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Online indicator and last logged in
My observations suggest that "online" refers to anywhere on the site whereas "last logged in" refers to a specific game and is probably sufficient to avoid CDind. Is that correct?
3 replies
Open
mwalton (2561 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Real Life Friends Playing In Same Game...What is the Etiquette Here?
Do you need to let the other players in the game know that you know each other in the real world? While I could see how it would increase the chances of a strong ally in a game...letting others know about it would also create an instant assumption that might not be real. What is generally consdered the etiquette in this matter?
11 replies
Open
Bananas (130 D)
13 Jan 09 UTC
Report France and Italy
http://phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=7945

Just look at the moves from italy and france, and the registration of italy new gamer. Don't looks suspicius?
16 replies
Open
paggas (184 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Rules question
What happens if player A has a fleet in St. Petersburg south coast, and player B moves his fleet from Barents Sea to St. Petersburg? How does support hold/support move work out?
2 replies
Open
PirateJack (400 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Forced unpause needed
http://www.phpdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=7429

In this game two nations have not logged on since the 4th and 6th of January, respectively, and the game has been stuck on pause for many days now. Could we ask a moderator to unpause it for us, if at all possible?
5 replies
Open
General_Ireland (366 D)
14 Jan 09 UTC
Could a Moderator Help Please?
GFDT Round 1, Game 4 has been paused since before the Christmas holidays. Everyone but two players has come back to unpause, but we STILL have not heard from the other two, despite repeated attempts to contact them regarding the game. See below for the rest of the details...
7 replies
Open
fearestgoblin (100 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Total Death
I just started thi game anyone who wants to play the start up to play is 10 coins, come on in and play Total Death!
2 replies
Open
paggas (184 D)
15 Jan 09 UTC
About the timing system
This is kindof an ehnancement proposal for phpDiplomacy.
Somewhat long, read the reply!
7 replies
Open
Richard III (373 D)
13 Jan 09 UTC
Can order errors be checked?
I don't want to pause the game in progress - it is what it is, and I'll live with the results of play, please don't delay it. But in my only ongoing game, Ponzi Scheme," my last spring season move included some errors that I just can't believe were mine...
36 replies
Open
philcore (317 D(S))
13 Jan 09 UTC
Ranking List
I've written a little app that goes through all of the user profiles and sorts them by position - kinda like the HoF, except with everyone having at least 101 points. There are 11,000+ members, but only 1754 of them are 100+ making them non-political puppets. It is from this subset of all of the members on the site that the 90%, 50%, etc. ratings are compiled from. Here's the complete list - I can run it once a week or so and post it, if there's interest.
23 replies
Open
EdiBirsan (1469 D(B))
15 Jan 09 UTC
Reaching the Rest of the Players?
We have maybe 5per cent of the players on the forum. I want to reach all the players to encourage them to come to the World DipCon Championships at Origins in Columbus, Ohio www.originsgamefair.com It would be a great place for the php community to meet up June 26-28. Can you all help by posting on you global chat?
4 replies
Open
xcurlyxfries (0 DX)
15 Jan 09 UTC
Curses!
I just lost a game to the dingly berries
3 replies
Open
SpeakerToAliens (147 D(S))
14 Jan 09 UTC
Be thankfull you're not playing the fb version of this...
Adverts! They've polluted the game pages and forum with fb Adverts! Not just down the RHS, where you can make your browser thinner to get rid of them, but at the top of every page! And they flash and flicker and are damned annoying.
9 replies
Open
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