These days? Radicalisation, mostly. Running paedophile rape gangs out of the basements.

Imagine no religion
I wonder if you can
Nothing to kill or die for
A brotherhood of man.

Just sayin'

When sacred texts of any flavor justify "killing in the name" you have to seriously reconsider all the religion's doctrinal foundations.

Life.

Nah, people would still find things to kill or die for without religion.

Those things would not be accepted as divine imperatives.

So? dead is dead

"So the government design of the TSA is a terrible waste of tax player dollars and an additional drain on our economy, but the government bureaucracy is able to vet all immigrant applications and do perfect background checks on all to the point where there is no possibility of doing it better?

Got it."

Yes, I am happy that it makes sense to you. I did not mean we could not do it better (if I said or implied that I apologize) I said that it would not be worth it. The guys who does not like freedoms infringed on and bloated bureaucracy, does not like freedoms impinged on and bloated bureaucracy. 1+1=2.

I did not know that about Senator Feinstein. Of course when you remember she saw two close coworkers murdered by a gun it makes sense that she would have strong feelings about gun control. An event like that makes an impression. But look she called for that over twenty years ago and has been a leading democrat for much of that time, and the elimination of guns has never made the national platform. Perhaps because there is not a conspiracy by the democratic party to take them all away.

'dead is dead'? What's your point Flum?

No state should ever sanction murder, despite self-defense, stand your ground, home as castle, and the death penalty.

But how many people do you know who say, "God before country"? That's right. Literally taken, those people believe that killing others for (usually) believing something different is divinely sanctioned. And guess what? Some people actually DO go out and murder other people who they believe are possessed by the devil or any number of reasons. Very few go and do it because they feel compelled by the state to do so (unless they are part of the monopoly on force/violence in the military or paramilitary).

"Yes, I am happy that it makes sense to you. I did not mean we could not do it better (if I said or implied that I apologize) I said that it would not be worth it."

But you do not know what the actual cost would be.

You are assuming the cost would not make it worthwhile.

If you truly think that there are no democrats pushing for the elimination of all guns, you are clear to have that opinion.

However I will not continue to attempt intelligent discussions with you as you are going to believe what you what to believe despite any facts presented to you, which is entirely your right.

Important note:

Considering Trump's goal, barring Iranian citizens will do nothing. Extremism and anti-American sentiment is largely contained within the government, and the order explicitly gives government officials as much freedom to come and go as they already had.

If the argument that some countries are also dangerous and not on the list so it has to be anti-islamic seems off. If you complain that it needs more countries then you should actually be for the ban.

@Jeff, If I'm about to get killed, I wouldn't really care if the person killing me is fighting for his religion or for his political leader or for resources. I'd just be sad I was getting killed.

People are willing to fight and die for ideologies. Religions are ideologies. But if you remove religion there will different ideologies people will die for. (See the USSR, French revolution, etc.)
And even that doesn't describe a huge amount of wars.
Do you think Bush and Obama were droning and warring with the Middle-East because of religion? No, they were doing it for resources and power. Actually, I suspect a huge amount of wars in the past were economical in nature and not due to religion. Like, the civil war, revolutionary war, war of 1812, were all motivated much more due to economical reasons than religion.

I think it's quite naive to think that religion is the reason behind most of the wars. If you had to point to one thing that was the biggest culprit, it would be resources.

Well, I know the cost of the various plans that President Trump and others have presented and certainly are not worth it. If there is a super secret plan to improve immigration then I will evaluate it when it becomes public.

There obviously are some democrats pushing for the elimination of all guns (and apparently some at the statewide level), just as there are some republicans pushing for the complete elimination of social security, medicare, medicaid, minimum wage, and income tax. That does not mean that these positions are part of a vast conspiracy, by their respective political party.

I respect that you do not wish to continue to attempt intelligent discussions with me. However, when you reply to things with faulty reading comprehension or ignorance, I may occasionally step in to let you know that you are incorrect. I hope you do not mind.

Make it a great day.

Fulminator, you make a good point. But while wars may be over resources, to get people to fight for them or support the war effort, you need an ideology. And religion has frequently served that role. So has nationalism. If you get rid of such ideologies, do you think wars would be as prevalent?

"When sacred texts of any flavor justify 'killing in the name'"

The Bible never (except in stories) condone "killing in the name." Anyone who ever did that was in clear violation of the commandment against murder.

Although the bible endorses killing in the name of the lord when it comes to capital punishment. Which includes the death penalty for cursing your father or mother. And some of those biblical stories include genocide. The bible is a complicated book with a lot of contradictions. But the consensus is, that the religion of Jesus is one of peace, and it is the same with Islam. But it is easy to take portions from each respective holy book and use them to endorse evil or hatred. Again, they are complicated books.

That is true, on the other hand the Koran specifically says that you should kill people. The Bible never says that except in dialogue within the book, which is in my opinion very different.

"I respect that you do not wish to continue to attempt intelligent discussions with me. However, when you reply to things with faulty reading comprehension or ignorance, I may occasionally step in to let you know that you are incorrect. I hope you do not mind.

Make it a great day. "

If that does happen, please feel free.

"That does not mean that these positions are part of a vast conspiracy, by their respective political party."

I never said a "vast conspiracy" I just said "a conspiracy".

But please feel free to continue lecturing on reading comprehension and ignorance. I will not mind.

I am sorry, can you please explain what you mean? The Bible lists things that people should be killed for, and the Koran does as well. I guess I do not understand how you are suggesting they are different.

A list of punishments is very different from a blatant command to kill the infidel if they don't believe.

Ah, KansasBoyd, I am happy that you stuck by your decision to not engage with me for 47 minutes. You are a man of conviction. Since you have decided to speak with me again, might I inquire if you are a Kansas native? I do not know anyone from Kansas. If you are from Kansas, would you say that your peculiar style of arguing and world view are common in Kansas or would you consider yourself more an anomaly? I would like to know more about Kansas.

Make it a great day.

"How blessed will be the one who seizes your young children and pulverizes them against the cliff!" Psalm 137:9

Yeah, love the peaceful Bible.

@ubercatcher16 except that not worshipping Yahweh properly is a capital crime, where that person is commanded to be put to death. Are those not equivalent?

I'd agree with you, Flum, that most wars and revolutions are about resources.

That's why killing in the name of religion is even more insidious. It's purely ideologically driven, resources be damned.

I don't think you can even hypothetically get rid of ideologies. If you got rid of that there might be other consequences. The best you can hope for is ideologies that glorify non-violence being dominant throughout the world. And ironically, that probably won't happen without violent removals of people who disagree.

Recently the leaders have gotten people to support wars from propaganda and fear tactics. Some join the army for payment or loot. Some join for revenge and resentment of past wrongs. Some join because they're low in the power totem pole and want to get more power. Some join because of conscription and they're forced to by there leaders.

World war 1 and world war 2, people weren't joining the wars because of God, they were joining to stop the eevul Germans from being bad and killing people.
Most of the cold war battles people were joining due to nationalism and going against the evil communists. Not much religion at root there either. (And conscription)

"Ah, KansasBoyd, I am happy that you stuck by your decision to not engage with me for 47 minutes. You are a man of conviction."

None of which had to do with your fairy tale of believing that no democrats are pushing for the elimination of all guns which was the qualifier of the topic.

But perhaps you were too busy lecturing others on reading comprehension to have understood that.

Hope that helps.

@Jeff, I did not say the Bible was peaceful, I said it never tells us to kill people.

@Jenga, you bring up another good point. That is from the old testament and the JEWISH laws, therefore most intelligent Christians do not still follow said laws.

@ubercatcher, I am fairly certain that most intelligent Muslims do not going around killing infidels. But they are in each others respective holy books.

I'm not really concerned about arguing about causes of wars. States fight over things all the time.

However, for most people, religion is an intensely PERSONAL thing. Religious leaders preach to their congregants. Some take these religious beliefs and commit acts of terrorism, domestic or international, by murdering innocents. Those are the killings I am concerned about. It's also the precise reason that modern nation states should not have officially recognized religions.