+1 Lethologica

The Electoral College, campaign finance, the two-party system, the media, the military-industrial complex, and whatever other evils you want to identify and decry about the American system of government don't provide a compelling basis for the view that our government can't accomplish basic tasks more efficiently and effectively.

That's why a lot of people in both parties are trying to send a message. Trump and Sanders are messages.

Thats why I am not part of either party...

Trump and Sanders are going after different groups of disaffected voters. There problem will be getting the center that would support a more traditional candidate.

You'd be shocked at how much overlap there is with the issues that matter to a Sanders supporter and the issues that matter to a Trump supporter. The solutions are just rather opposite as posed by Trump vs. Sanders, but they don't have to be. It really isn't crazy to think that Trump supporters would love Sanders if he gets the nomination and the people on the Right actually get to see him speak to them.

@y2k, yeah. I guess that is an answer to the question i posed in the opening.

Is it that trump and sanders are both answers to the same question (disaffected voters) different answers, sure; but if they answer the same question then you can concieve of one converting the supporters of the other...

Though i would have imagined Ron Paul as the Republican equivalent to Sanders...
It is an interesting tale.

*take, not tale.

Trump and Sanders both boil down to an answer to the corruption that has overtaken both polarized sides of America.

If Sanders could convert Trump supporters, could Trump convert Sanders supporters?

Sanders supporters will probably end up not voting or voting third party if it comes down to Clinton/Trump. Maybe they would vote Clinton just to try to keep Trump out, but I wouldn't. There are some Republican candidates that a Sanders supporter might lean toward before Clinton, though.

Such as?

i like rand paul

my parents are "liberal" but my dad is a fan of jeb, he'd vote jeb over hillary i'm pretty sure. they're slaves to CNN and are scared of Sanders talks of socialism, but they would vote for him over any republican candidate i'm pretty confident.

I would have voted for Webb over nearly all of the Republican candidates, haha.

I'm confused as to why Americans are so convinced the news companies have so much power. They really don't. There is no such thing as a slave to CNN. If CNN suddenly starting reporting news in the same style as Fox, CNN watchers wouldn't suddenly become like Fox watchers. They'd just stop watching CNN.

The media doesn't really dictate opinion, but instead follows it. In the UK the Sun doesn't steer people towards a Party (as much as it likes to pretend it does), but simply looks at who is likely to win and cheerleads for them.

CNN isn't as bad as Fox. But they're all shoving the Middle East in our faces.

As well as Donald Trump. The media is the reason he hasn't really had to spend money on his campaign yet. The media jumped on the "Mexicans are criminals and rapists" line and can't get enough of him since. You don't have to display the ugly side of America, you can silence it. But it's all a game.

that game being the game of ratings

it's hard to understand how bad the media really is in America and how the 24 hour news cycle is geared to get us hooked and watching, well, 24/7.

case and point, the corporate media in America does actually dictate opinion on a fairly large scale.

The hilarious (well, kinda hilarious) corollary to this is that since the rise of Trump, Fox News has been attempting to white him out at the behest of many of their viewers that were becoming Trumpers. But the liberal media made sure Trump would never, ever be whited out.

Oct: In America, the media really is immensely powerful. There is a triangular relationship between constituents, the media, and politicians since there can be no direct relationship between constituents and politicians. The triangle is completed by policy, which affects the constituents. And the media is a key point in helping craft it.

KC, personally I would vote for Marco Rubio over Hillary Clinton. I'd also go for Webb if he ends up making it, but I doubt he will. Most Democrats and left-side independents in general would vote for other fringe-type Republicans on the moderate end but they never get publicized because the party as a whole is too far right. If they moved moderate and throw the Cruz and Trump types out, they'd take over as the centrist political choice.

Revolution coming at both sides. The fringes are actually the masses if you included those that don't vote.

Yes, but those that don't vote don't vote.

The Media is powerful, but in an almost unintelligent, unintentional sense -- whatever latest thing the media is fixated on, that is what we all talk about. It is really interesting because everyone assumed that the modern explosion of mass media (24 hr news, internet, blogging, cable) would offer reporting on so many different topics compared to 30 years ago when there were just a handful of news outlets reporting via a daily paper or 30 min news segment. In reality, all of these news organizations are competing with each other for dollars and eyeballs, so most of them just shout the same 5 news stories as loud as possible every day, resulting in an oversaturation of less quality information. it is really quite discouraging.
luckily there are alternative news sources, but they just don't influence the conversation the way freak-out airport terminal news or internet clickbait sites do.

I expect the vote turn-out to spike this time around assuming the Sanders message and Trump message both stay loud. Who could stay home in a Donald Trump vs. Bernie Sanders election?

If Bernie in particular is in the final vote, voter turnout will be massive. If he's not, I can see it going down from where it has been.

I really, REALLY don't want those two to be going against each other in a general election. I would probably vote third party.