@Damian:

Fair enough. And for that very fair last post from you, I'll explain my Beyonce reference.

Beyonce is an American singer and one of her most famous songs is entitled 'Survivor'. I received a message telling me that I am survivor, and thus I feel like Beyonce, with her lyrics: "I'm a Survivor, I'm not gonna' give a', I'm working harder, keep on survivin' "

@wjessop - true that wording didn't make much sense, but I don't think I was entirely contradicting myself, your posts were either one words and fluff or both. I'm not trying to put you in a pre-fabricated box, I just don't want you to repeat the same play you exhibited in your last two games which is what you seem to be doing already. Not a good sign.

""Yes wjessop, we planned to bus you an hour in the game!!! Totally unfailing scum strategy!"

DO's natural reaction to being accused by wjessop of planning with damian to get wjessop lynched. I think she knows what "bussing" means, it implies mafia going after mafia. It's what mafia always think about doing, and i can only imagine the kind of bussing the mafia are plotting in chat right now. i think we have a scumslip here, and i think damian could be scum as well, i really don't like them blowing up at the Beyonce comment as if wjessop owed more at the time. ##VOTE DemonOverlord

Anyone who received the VT message and who is vaguely aware of American pop culture (I would have anticipated most people to know who Beyonce is)*/** would have understood what I was communicating.

*FYI it's pronounced BAY-ONT-SAY, not BAY-ONTZ.
**Beyonce isn't as oblique as, oh I don't know, the former name of a prison outside the city of Birmingham (*cough* Maniac M10)

@all I will be getting off here pretty soon myself so now is the time to ask me any questions, or ask me for feedback of any kind.

Thank you to those who have been responding to BB, I realize that I have not yet responded to any point aside from his 4th but that is only because I agree with his theory, if not completely the actual practice of what might come about.

@Scum I wish you the best of luck hiding from us, but I hope that we find you all out very quickly and embarrass you this game

@Town I know joke posting has it's times, and we usually joke post very early on, but I for one have always been distracted by people voting so early on. You have no real reason to vote this early, aside from trying to pressure the Mafia into being defensive, but there are more Town than Mafia so you are more likely going after one of us.

@Town PRs good luck, may you all die last, if you die at all. Seriously, going without a PR death would be pretty funny. Not as funny as Lynching Tr or having the Mafia die every single day/some nights, but still pretty funny.

i definitely understood the reference

Thanks for the explanation, and also the defence.
As I mentioned earlier I wanted more meaningful content.
While I'm unsure about how I feel about some of your defence, I at least have a better read on you for now.
##UNVOTE

I do know who Beyonce is. I just know next to nothing about her music. Which is why the reference sailed over my head.

@DO: in my first two games, I almost completely avoided joke-posting, because I wanted to be taken seriously. So I'm clearly not "playing the same already". You're contradicting yourself all over the place.

It's a shame, because I like you, you're funny and seem like a nice person, but you really are trying to put me quite quickly into a pre-fabricated box, and it also seems like you were urged by your scumchat teammates to jump on me after Damian accused my joke posts, and that was bad advice on their behalf.

No worries wjessop, I've only had The Libertine's You're My Waterloo stuck in my head since 7pm. I feel you.

@y2k it was a joke, and I think it's been fairly proven that "scumslips" aren't indicative of anything. You should try focusing on a player's behavior, you might find more success in scum hunting. At least, this is the route I'm going to try and take in this game.

Hey guys, this is a joke post, but I couldn't hold it back any longer.

Can we please get #Scumslip trending one of these days?

@wjessop What does you liking me have to do with this game? Either I'm scummy or not, this has nothing to do with how nice and funny I am. This happened in the last game too, where y'all thought I was scummy for defending stupidfighter. Maybe I need to shut up during day 1.

From what it seemed to me, your play in the last games had a lot of useless one liners. Am I wrong?

DO, you do know what bussing is though, right? if i were truly town and was responding to wjessop's accusation, i would think about him accusing me and damian of targeting him, not bussing him. why would you joke about bussing him in response to his accusation towards you?

I think we're on a town roll from M12, I imagine DO is online now chatting and plotting in scumchat and has gotten overexcited by all of this.

Scum might be powerful this game, but hubris will catch them off guard.

My ##vote is on DemonOverlord.

@y2k yeah I do. I believe its more of a "brain slip" than a scum one though, my bad. The word I wanted was wagon, or something.

" i really don't like them blowing up at the Beyonce comment as if wjessop owed more at the time. ##VOTE DemonOverlord"

To be fair I didn't call out that post in particular. Just the fact that despite being on after Balki's post, which gave everyone something substitutive to talk about. Wjessop continued to joke post.

As was pointed out to me, timezones make that a criticism with slightly less edge. Although I stand by what I said.

Furthermore, Wjessop, and DO ended up producing posts with real content I can try and base a read off of. And now, analyzing the actions of me and DO, y2k has produced a case, based on what could be scum slip by DO. Whether or not I was "owed more" or not, pursing that line of questioning was productive.

And now this useful discussion about bussing. If DO does know what it meant, thats an interesting point. Why use the word bussing at all, if you are town? Unless your discussing the possibility of the mafia lynching one of their own.

@damian you just voted for DO right there. It is always helpful to edit out the actual vote so that it doesn't count as your own.

That was a joke guys, that's all I can say about that. Since I'm accusing wjessop and he's accusing me I don't think it was entirely wrong to joke about bussing.

Oh shit, thanks Espi.
Its been so long since I played this I forgot about that.
##Unvote

wait DO, now you're defending using the bus as what the word actually means? or was it a brainslip? i'm confused.

@damian no problem, I always like to point that out just in case.

i envision the QT thread discussing whether scum should bus DO now or not, with the decision based on which scum role DO has. but I won't get ahead of myself.

Rather than waiting for DO to respond to Y2k (which he should do, since y2k is making a fair point) Is there anything else productive we can be discussing?

I have to leave in half an hour, but I'd be happy to answer any questions anyone wants to pose to me.

Also Balki appears to be online. Assuming he hasn't just remained logged in for whatever reason. Any reason for the silence after the helpful first page contributions. I think there are some questions that could be answered about your VT fake PR claim suggestion and I'd love to hear your responses to them if your online.

@y2k It was a brainslip with me trying to find logic in the statement. You're seriously overthinking this. I'm sure scum are talking about jumping on this wagon in their chat, however I'm not involved in it.

maybe, i wanna hear from the silent ppl now

Alright, so:

People who are town:
wj (keeping my reason a secret cause I want to see if he keeps doing it)
y2k - He just townslipped, and I guarantee he wouldn't be posting stoned right now if he were scum, whereas he wouldn't be being so thick with DO right now if he weren't stoned.
Espi - I remembered thinking when I GMed that Espi seemed so town but I would definitely scumread him as a player. Pretty sure that's the deal with his awful start.

Unknown but I'm wary:
DO - The scumshit bullshit is the bullest of shit but she's still being kinda weird.
damian - Seems OK but I feel like he's trying to feign early townie aggressiveness.

Scum:
Yoyo's scum this game. I feel it very strongly in my bones and also he's totes picking on guak and meme to buddy with me because I hate those fuckers. It's way too early to whine about specific people lurking too even though guak and meme are terrible. #VOTE Yoyo. Lemme see some contribution.

People I don't care about yet:
Everyone else. Especially uclabb.

Wait DO, it was a brainslip and not a reductio ad absurdum on his argument that you were talking privately? I thought it was a "yeah, and I'm your partner! hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha" sorta thing

lol ghug pegged me :/

Thoughts so far:

A little unclear about how BB gets away with telling VTs to claim PRs and gets widely town read. I don't agree at all with this strategy. The notable thing about this game isn't the suicide bomber, that's a secondary thing- the notable thing is that there are a shitton of mafia. Obviously the cop is much stronger, but the other PRs' main power is to town clear themselves via breadcrumbing, Nerfing this seems completely unacceptable.

Similarly, I'm not sure I agree that jack of all trades should track looking for PRs night 1. It's not clear what this gains even if it is successful. A successful track should sway the read toward the tracked player being mafia if anything, so tracker shouldn't support this player in the day. Jack of all trades should save the track for an opportune situation- the power in this role is not in the individual powers but in the optionality that allows for

Espi comes off poorly. To my read, there are some pretty blatant attempts at town slipping and some things that come off as tonally inconsistent. More on this later.

And finally, damian's attack on wjessop seems town motivated, as does wjessop's response. While I was reading, my first impression was that it seems virtually guaranteed that mafia is a little overeager to use day chat so it's highly likely that there is mafia (and likely just 1) in the people who stoked the wjessop flame. However, on reread it looks like it was pretty much just damian and DO, so I think it's probably a dead end.

Alright, got home from my class and I have some observations and questions.

@TrPrado VOTERS: To the people who voted TrPrado (I can generate the list if needed). Can you explain your vote and I will focus on a few of these votes in a second? Were the votes jokevoting, rxn, serious? The reason I ask is because in five games I haven’t seen a serious movement go for the first few hours against someone who isn’t playing. To boot the player who wasn’t playing (TrPrado) actually posted in the signups confirming he wasn’t playing. Never seen this happen before. In essence, either there was a reason (silly or serious) for the vote OR you clearly did not read the thread which is disturbing in itself. Scum don’t read and morons don’t read hence disturbing such a large number actually believed this, but we have to trace it back to the start and the first person who voted for TrPrado which caused this confusing and embarrassing situation to arise which derailed the thread.

@DL: On page 2, TrPrado was your top scumread. While a low-content post it is a partial read. Which is amazing for page 2. Also, and the GM can correct me but shouldn’t analysis be done within this thread and not outside forum threads?

@Damien: You produce a case on Wjessop and comment on TrPrado like he is playing the game were you also under the impression that he was playing and if so why?

@other voters: explain.

Observation(s):

Wjessop’s vote on Damian after Damian’s case is definitely something to note. While it is very early in the game some of his play is indicative of his past meta which is all scum. If people remember scum Wjessop also voted for HR after HR scrutinized him in M9. This was a reactionary move.

Espi producing the player list seems helpful, but didn’t he concur with DL’s read on Page 2 which had TrPrado as the top scum read: “@DL sounds about right” (page 2).

DemonOverlord’s vote on Wjessop is interesting as it gives the early train some momentum. But is this not a reaction as well? Didn’t Wjessop vote for DO at the beginning of the game? “Yes wjessop, we planned to bus you an hour in the game!!! Totally unfailing scum strategy!” When people post stuff like this it is always hard for me to distinguish if they have a hidden goal to it. What’s the point in confusing the thread or sarcastically claiming scum? Either defensive, sarcasm, or anti-town play it is something to note.