""I have black friends, so I can't be racist!"

Is this 1983? "

This from Thucy -- who's claim to fame is that he can't possibly be racist because he learned everything he knows about females and racism from his Old Black Woman's club that he regularly attends, where they take in the sniveling Noble White Liberal Male and teach him everything he needs to know about not judging people and being such a bigoted asshole.

...and yet he *still* thinks that women and non-whites can't succeed on their own merit without the Noble White Liberal Male saving them from their own failings...

sigh...

WHAHAHAHAHA krellin's posts make me furious mostly but this one's getting framed and a prominent position in the hallway mwuhaahahaha

Hey #fuckthucy - I took your challenge and posted the results and you went amazingly silent. What's that matter? Did I pass your test so you are trying to avoid it?

let me put it this way draugnar.

the test is pretty simply to figure out. if you're taking it to prove a point, you will be able to make your point.

one anecdote is less interesting than the results of their study. poke around on that site some more

"the test is pretty simply to figure out. if you're taking it to prove a point, you will be able to make your point...."

And *every* good bleeding heart Liberal that takes this test, I *guarantee* their brainwashed Superior White Liberal gene kicks in and they start pouring their heart out as to how racist, etc they are.

I'd *love* to see a breakdown of the internals of such a ridiculous test....

Thucy -- do you know *anything* about how to conduct a *legitimate* study? If you are trying to get to the real motivations of people, you don't tell them up front what test they are going to take and then give them a test that a 2 yearold could manipulate.

Want to study how someone's patience increases or decreases with caffiene? Tell them they won a prize and have them sit in a room waiting for their prize. Feed Group A caffeine, and Group B no caffeine, and see the results. They have *no* idea they are being studied for their patience on or off caffeine, thus can not mask their true reactions.

Your study...as with **most** Liberal studies of this nature, is worth less than the scratchy used paper I just wiped my ass with.

Krellin read the study, and come back.

Here is the data if you care to view it.

http://projectimplicit.net/nosek/papers/pcias/default.htm

So Thucy, if I understand it correctly, you made Draugnar take the test, but then when he passed the test, you're accusing him of not giving honest answers so the test makes him look better than he is?

Can I ask you a question? Would you please never appear in my threads again? Thanks.

I accuse him of nothing. I pointed him to the test to show him how people have unconscious racial prejudices, to demonstrate how racism is much more complex than giving black people the right to vote.

I myself scored as Draugnar did. This doesn't absolve me of doing anything about racism. Nor him. The site doesn't exist so that people can "prove they're not racist" or somesuch nonsense.

People who score with a preference against black people are not necessarily horrible people either. The point is to show that racism is a system, and not an act. Racism is the underlying pattern that produces oppression for PoCs. It's not the set of all people that arbitrarily fit into a category of "racists."

This of course does not change that there are in fact inherently racist acts and racist people. But it's so much more complicated than that.

To relate it back to Trayvon Martin, this is why black people are making a big deal out of it. Because they know what this experience is. White people do not. Even white people who care and want to help do not know what it's like.

First the test shows one thing then when I take it, it suddenly means nothing? Talk about an about face! Did yoy get whiplash spinning you head around that quickly, Janus-ides?

But seriously, the test is about speed in response and accuracy with that speed. If you go slow enough to guarantee your accuracy, you will still reflect your tendencies instictively in the quicker responses. And if you plow through as fast as you can, your accuracy will give away ypir tendencies. You really can't "game" that test and I took it not knowing what to expect and reported my first (and only) result so you can cast your aspersions that I somehow gamed the test but I know I just took it following directions and not lnowing what to expect.

"the test is pretty simply to figure out. if you're taking it to prove a point, you will be able to make your point."

Draugnar deserves an apology for this one Thucy. If the test is bogus to begin with, don't sell it as a useful test. If it isn't, you trust the result Draug gave you.

Let me spell it out for you:

What you go online and do is just a quasi-experiment. It's just to educate the public about the tool and results of studies done with it.

But they used this tool in actual rigorous studies and found disturbing results - i.e. inherent racial bias across the American population, even, to an extent, IN THE BLACK POPULATION.

What does this mean? It means racism is a deep-rooted and societal problem.

You guys talk about how this talk of systems and society is meaningless. I introduced you to this study to show that this is willful ignorance.

I myself received a result 'ambiguity' and took it again and managed to get preference for African Americans.

Look up the IAT and fakeability.

No, don't spell it out for me. I have a Master's in science, you don't spell things out for me. The relationship Thucydides-redhouse is not a teacher-student one, rather a prey-predator one. Let me spell it out to you:

This: "the test is pretty simply to figure out. if you're taking it to prove a point, you will be able to make your point."
plainly suggests that Draugnar manipulated the outcome to have him come off as less racist than he really is. You can blather on about other things all you want, about how racism is rooted in society and about how black people feel, but your Jedi tricks don't work on me.

To go back to that sub discussion:


This is you asking Draugnar to take the test, which you apparently find a valuable test:

"Draugnar, the fact that you cannot see how your judgment of Trayvon Martin's character is colored by race is.. frankly shocking and, at the same time, completely predictable for someone with a latent racial bias.

You ever done the Project Implicit test?

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/"


This is Draugnar taking the test:
"Your Result


Your data suggest a slight automatic preference for African American compared to European American.


Funny. I seems to have an automatic preference to *African Americans*. Tell me again how this test proves I'm latently racist? Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!"

And this is you then taking back the value of the test, suggesting Draugnar is a racist but is hiding it by faking the test:

"the test is pretty simply to figure out. if you're taking it to prove a point, you will be able to make your point."

So, in your world, people like Draugnar HAVE to be racist, because that's the most convenient for your belief system. Ask your dad to post something about that on Facebook.

Red has a point, Thucy. When there is no possible way for Draug to act without you concluding that it shows he is racist, then the method is flawed.

If you look above you'll see that I myself got a non-biased result. But I do not, from that, absolve myself of racial bias or being part of a racist system.

Neither does it absolve Draugnar of making racial judgments.

What the study proves, indeed ALL it proves is that racial biases can go as deep as the subconscious. And that is the important point.

To the extent that there are some people who do not have this bias - hallelujah. But, as the results show, this is not the norm. 70% of white respondents showed a preference against black faces.

If that is what a color-blind, post-racial society looks like, then I'll be damned.

blabla

go away

Excuse me, did I say that Draugnar's test results indicate he is racist? No.

Do I say that my own test results show I am free of racial blame? No.

Does this make the test useless? No.

Did I accuse Draugnar of racism?

Yes.

He implied Trayvon Martin deserved to die because he smoked weed and got into a little trouble.

Black kids get that all the time. Similar whites, not so much.

Why? Race. How? Implicit assumptions like what this project studies.

To address a broader theme:

Many of you seem to believe racism is not a major problem in American society, western society, global society.

If you believe this, I don't understand you. PoCs are routinely oppressed. To be blind to this is staggeringly ignorant.

Mince my words until you're blue in the face if you like. But the fact that you are attempting to defend racism, which is in fact what you are doing, is really repugnant. I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and show you why.

Instead, you take it as insult and discrimination. You get defensive. This is natural. I did as much when faced with these things at first.

I will not be backing down. Not on this issue. Not on a question of justice.

Fuck no, redhouse, I will not.

Do you care to explain your motivations for being as obstinate as I on this issue, for occupying the other side of the fence?

I have laid mine plain, I'd love to hear yours, that goes for all of you, semck, Octavious, Draugnar, krellin, redhouse, et al.

Excuse me, did I say that YOU said that Draugnar's test results indicate he is racist? No, YOU said, implicitly, that Draug is a LIAR, not a RACIST. That nonsense accusation was made elsewhere and Draug can deal with that, I call you out for calling him a liar. But nice way upping the ante buddy, you look bigger now, a bigger moron maybe, but bigger all the same.

Okay no, stop right there.

Draugnar trumpeted his results like a child as a refutation of my entire point about systemic racism. I told him that one result is tripe, and pointed out that you can indeed influence the test to get a result you prefer.

Did he lie? I don't know. Could he have? Yes he could have.

I will not be backing down from that so you can stop asking about it.

So Draug is a racist, childish manipulator of tests that you propose he fill out? Convenient, because that means you don't need to argue him et al. on content and you can just blather on about your moral superiority.

Nope, I'm here to talk these issues out as long as it takes.

Morally superior I am not. I'm as fucked up as you.

I'd love to argue some content. All I've heard however is: "I hire black people. I'm not racist!"

Care to rebut my points about how American society is racist, and being white in that society implicates you in the system? Been waiting on that one a few days now.

"The point is to show that racism is a system, and not an act."

Bullshit. If I lie in my bed every night and pray murder and death to everyone I don't like, but when I go about my daily life and treat every single human as absolute equals, I may be "racist", but BY MY ACTIONS there is no racism.

But...yes...all you silly leftist think that all these invisible things are happenings, blah blah blah. In other words, you have constructed the argument such that the battle *can never be won*...and thus Liberal race-baiters and provocateurs will *forever* have cash-flow from their "causes"...

'He implied Trayvon Martin deserved to die because he smoked weed and got into a little trouble..." and how EXACTLY is that racist? Oh...because the wise White Liberal then **added** to Draug's words hiw *own inherent racist feelings* and *made* it racist...

See how that Liberal racist game works?

When you are too stupid to add your own racist comments, Liberals add them for you...

"I'd love to argue some content. All I've heard however is: "I hire black people. I'm not racist!""

ACTIONS ARE CONTENT, fuckwad! All YOU want to do is get people in a group hug and have us all break down and admit what racists we are so that we fulfill YOUR preconceived notions. THE MAJORITY OF US live out daily lives color-blind, Thucy. We go to work and we work, we don't minitor and document all the race and gender experinces we have...BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT RELEVANT to our daily walk and work.


ACTIONS ARE CONTENT. You *refuse* to talk about your....oh, wait...you DID talk about content before. You said that drive around in cars with people that lock their doors when blacks walk by, and you have friends that make racist comments and judgements all the time...

I see, you don't want to talk about real life content any more because you are a racist and have surrounded yourself with racist people.

re: Trayvon Martin -- this was not a racial issue **at all** until "black leaders" - including Hussein Obama - made it one. And then, instead of a national group hug and intelligent conversation on racial relationships, the Liberal Media and "black leadership" whipped up people in to a violent frenzy. Such wizards-of-smart like Spike Lee and other were basically calling for the open murder of a Hispanic man who was eventually, overwhlemingly, acquitted of any crime.

THIS is a prime, classic example of Liberal sensitivity to race relations: Take every incident that involves a mix of races, scream racism at the top of your lungs before the facts and known, and then march in the streets, calling every white person a racist by birth, saying that every black man is oppressed by birth -- and then, to double down, pull an Obama and say "even when we are violent...we do it because we have a *right* to be criminally violent by our history...it's in our culture due to the history of the way we were raised..."...and we excuse the criminal and immoral behavior of blacks and set them apart as a special circumstance.

We used to set them apart with separate counters and their own drining fountains. I thought we ended such bad beahvior....now we degrade them and excuse their criminal activity in the name of racial sensitivity.

PAthetic Liberalism at its finest!

Krellin. Krellin please. Please, please please, try to edit some of the vitriol out.

It lowers the quality of the discussion by orders of magnitude.

Anyway, look.

Let's break this down into nuts and bolts. This isn't going to go very far if we don't do it with a little more direction:

Point 1: Racism is systemic in society and pervades institutions, and even minds.

Therefore, even someone who consciously harbors no racist intent toward a group can be involved in racism. Further still, a white person can exercise privilege WITHOUT BEING RACIST.

How this is possible is because it is the system, not an entire race, which is racist.

This is the system that imprisons black men at unacceptable rates. This is the system that paints black men as brutes and criminals, as, not surprisingly, they have been painted for centuries.

Now, let's stop there. Let's discuss that. This point here, in capital letters:

RACISM IS SYSTEMIC, NOT INCIDENTAL

Please respond to that idea and refrain from ranting about "Liberalism", whatever that means.

"He implied Trayvon Martin deserved to die because he smoked weed and got into a little trouble."

I implied no such thing. I stated good riddance because TM *attacked and assaulted* another human being without physical provocation. I don't care if GZ was calling him every name in the book and mkaing fun of him, you *do not* assault a stranger on a sidewalk. The moment TM did, he committed a felony and his death was a direct result of that felony. Had he never assaulted GZ and had him on the ground beating him, he wouldn't have been shot. TM was responsible for his own actions. His actions resulted in another person feeling they were about to die and needed to defend themselves with deadly force. TM then deserved to die. Not becaus ehe was black. Not because he was a trouble maker. But because he had GZ believing he (GZ) was going to die.