Is that because Draugnar did not highlight Kusiag? Did Druagnar want me targeted?

I agree that Sarg's punishment was overly harsh. a 100 point deduction i could somewhat understand. 300 is ridicilous

Don't say I didn't warn you... And why I was docked 50 (it's was actually a few more than that) was that was all my points. I was docked all my points except one and, when the game I "cheated" in was cancelled, I was docked all the points returned to me. So if you view it as a percentage deal, I was docked more than 90%. You were docked less than 10%, Sarg...

I hope you're happy, Robert.

I come here for fun games and interesting discussion. Sometimes it really seems that all you enjoy doing here is calling people offensive names and creating problems for others. I really hope you got what you wanted from this.

(which appears evident - yebellz has clearly paid you back for the time he paused that world map game and got your buttons in a twist)

Kusiag appeared to be an isolated incident. Also, in this thread, he ceased commenting and appeared to have realized that he should not have done so.

On the other hand, you continued to post insisting that nothing you were doing was against the rules, while ironically agreeing that Kusiag had broken the rules.
Continuing to uphold that your messages were within the rules essentially reinforces again and again the message that you are trying to get across to the other players.

Sarg, I've defended you on the forum before, but I think you are taking this one a bit too personal. I think the 300 is a bit steep, but you did break the rules (even though it was not intentional). You can protest the punishment all you want, but I don't think you should slander yebellz the way you are.

Saying things like "No doubt you'll probably just delete it before any other moderator sees it " are pretty ridiculous imo.

@Tom: Yebellz slammed me down rather publicly in this thread and, by everyone's account, quite harshly. He did not treat me with courtesy and approach me first. He simply called me out "Sargmacher: Here is your punishment" while referencing 'Draug' by a petname. If I am in treated in such a way, it is not surprising that I should make assumptions and comments such as the one you quote. You are right that it is ridiculous but I am responding to the way I have been treated.

Sarg, read your PMs.

@Sarg - If you really think I have the mods wrapped around my little finger, you've not seen some of the PMs and emails I've had with them and the restrictions I am under as part of my probation. I damn near got banned for my last infraction. And what was that infraction? I had the audacity to join a pacifist game and be an active player. So, no. I don't have any influence and am more likely to b e ignored than any one else here by them.

I told you what you did was against the rules and you didn't listen. Instead you decided to attack me and belittle me by name. I said everyone should shut the fuck up and pointed out it was against the rules. You belittled me personally. Am I happy you got docked? Fuck yeah. You deserved it.

I still think it is out of line. Sure, you may think your punishment is bullshit, but I still think it is wrong for you to suggest that he is a) corrupt by deleting emails, and b) collluding with Draug for some past mistake.

You can disagree with the punishment and how he levied it, but you don't have to make up accusations against him. Just argue that you were treated unfairly, not that yebellz is doing all of these other things.

Note that I like you Sarg. I just think you might want to cool down a bit. Then email the mods your concerns about how this was handled if you are still upset.

Draug you're an old man and can handle such setbacks, Sarg is just a young man setting out and making his way in the world. If we don't support the Youth what hope have we got??

@Nigee - Seriously? You're arguing that 300 is going to affect his life outside this site? Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!! I'm laughing so hard it hurts!

I'm spending most my life living in a trollers paradise :-)

@Tom: You are absolutely right. Sorry if I came across as abrupt in my message to you. You are right also that I have reacted with emotion in this thread (understandably, I would hope) - I would also like to take this opportunity to point out it's 5am here, I've stayed up far too late with a glass (cough, glasses) of wine and was heading to bed when I logged on to check my games and saw all this.

I appreciate your support - I also appreciate your balance.

@Nigee: This site does not affect me outside of it. I am not really bothered about the points - harsh as it was. What has bothered me is the way this has been handled. I think in future a kindly worded email (if only in advance of a public slapping) might be a more helpful way to keep players on side. If I had been approached first via email or even a simple PM then I would have felt like I was still being treated like a human being but to log into the site and see that I was simply slapped down publicly in this thread, after Draugnar had called for it, seemed odd and slightly insulting.

Draug is the next Mod mark my words ...... poacher turned gamekeeper !!

@Sarg - I only called for it after you insisted you weren't breaking the rules. And I used hyperbole (calling for all of the players, not just yours, points to be wiped) and OTT reactions to make a point. Nobody wanted to listen to me and I think that your actions resulted in the draw by intimidating the hold-out who had a shot at a win if given enough time, and had a right to try.

You may not like my methods, but this is a public and unmoderated forum and I'll use whatever methods I choose, short of posting cheating accusations about in game activities or breaking other rules, to get my point across.

"calling for all of the players"

Yes, I was aware of that and appreciated that to an extent.

So, lemme get this straight, Sarg has been fined for cheating by making this thread, but neither Draug or Kusaig were fined?

Kusaig posted in this thread with intent to change the outcome of the game, as he was the holdout for the draw and his posts were making an attempt to alter in game actions of a gunboat. Yebellz didn't fine him because he didn't perpetuate his actions. Sarg, on the other hand, posted with positive intent, made an honest mistake, and has apologized for it, and yet a new precedent in point fining has been set in his being fined.

Draug posted in this thread and in the other thread (the one he created asking for mod help) accusing Sarg of cheating. This breaks the rule about posting cheating accusations in the forum, arguably the rule about spamming the forum (there was no need for a second thread), and possibly even the rule about common sense (he was acting like a two-year old, which doesn't really show common sense). He not only perpetuated his actions (the supposed reason for Sarg's fine), but also did evrything he did seemingly out of spite, as opposed to Sarg, who was legitimately trying to help the site, the mods, and those involved in the game.

It seems like there is a bit of a double standard here, but I'll just leave it at that.

@Nigee - I'm on some pretty severe probation. I seriously doubt they would even consider me for a spot. But for what it's worth...

@Yebellz - I've been hard on you in the past and I want to directly apologize to you in this public forum. My activity in the past has been uncalled for and I have stopped it, not just under threat of banning, but because you deserve better.

@Thucy - Don't think we've ever had it out. But if we have, I apologize.

@abge - You're retired, I know, but still have the powers more than likely. Either way, despite our falling outs, I actually have great respect for you and enjoyed our recent game together even if you three mods/admins ganged up on us four regular joes. ;-)

@fk - You know I'm a friend, but just in case, this is a reminder.

@figle, ghost, and the other mods (current and retired) - If I've ever given you shit, my apologies. You volunteer(ed) your time and deserve(d) better.

@ghug - Sarg wasn't trying to help the mods. That's his bullshit excuse to save face. I was trying to stop the influence of the game, unfortunatley I failed as they still browbeat the hold out into submission. And it wasn't a cheating accusation. I pointed out the specific rule he was breaking. He denied it. The mods upheld the challenge. But I'll just leave it at that.

1. It was pretty clear that his intent was ending it simply.

2. How is pointing out a rule that you think someone is breaking not a cheating accusation?

@ghug - On my part, it technically became a cheating accusation when I stopped just telling everyone as a whole to "shut the fuck up" and I'll accept whatever punishment the mods dish out.

As far as Sarg's intent. Even if his intent was just ending it, he was attempting to end it by breaking the rules. He should have continued to keep his draw up and held the line until a mod responded to his email. Instead he went about berating the hold out and insisting he should draw on the forums. That broke rule 3 - the "no getting around press rule". Want to argue some more about it? The mods have spoken already. *HE BROKE THE FUCKING RULES!*

A quick review of every one of my posts before Sarg's smackdown clearly shows I referenced everyone discussing the game, not just Sarg.

Hey I know everyone has a lot of grievances and beef but I have a simple suggestion that will fix everything and avoid a lot of unnecessary grief.

Just shut up and let it go. I've skimmed this thread - rules or no rules, the concern that everyone seems to have over this strikes me as extremely juvenile. This is a game, ladies and gentlemen.

Please let this drop from your minds. I don't even want to get into it. I don't see why anyone would. I will not be looking at this thread again. If you want to talk about something that matters, you can PM me.

Please just get on with your lives everyone.

OK, officer Barbrady...

The disadvantage of rule disagreements in diplomacy: Everyone has their own spin on it, just like the game.

It'll take me a while to troll through this thread and review it so that I can see if it was appropriately ruled.

I will say this: The penalty was less than 10% of the points of the user. This doesn't affect GR which most vets consider more important. The uproar seems more in line with the 'balance' and how often we punish vs not punishing.

Gunboats have been a thorn in our sides especially in the forum. We get a majority of the cheat requests from them, they have the most cheating in them (that isn't an official statement, btw, but what I've felt from my time moderating), and if you guys feel this is unfairly pushed on someone consider that there can be situations and history that are not being brought to the public and that this may be something we are starting to crack down more on.

Now if you want to comment and reply to me (and by god I know about 9 people who will, even if I ask not to), feel free. But the more you add to this thread, the longer it'll take me to review it.